šŸ”„ Post Your Hot Takes... Even the Oddly Specific Ones

Who would the ER call if a man pulls out a knife in the waiting room? A behavioral psychologist?

That’s my understanding of malpractice insurance, which is why I support the concept.

If we get rid of QI and replace it with nothing, what is there to shield the cop from an unwanted citizen outcome?

Even with QI cops like Darren Wilson, who did nothing wrong, had his life shattered because of an unwanted citizen outcome.

Meanwhile, LEO morale and recruitment is at a low for my lifetime. Allowing the lawsuits to start flying won’t improve the situation as a whole.

When seconds matter, cops are just minutes away! You are responsible for your safety, period.

Then let them get malpractice insurance. Emily isn’t shielded from suit by the federal government.

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I’d be fine if an equivalent insurance scheme was devised for Law Enforcement.

I think it would be disastrous to remove QI without a mechanism in place to ensure good police work won’t result in a cop losing all of his assets.

The cost would, of course, be passed on to the taxpayer, but that will always be true to a degree.

If we are going to have people like doctors and cops who we ask to try their best in chaotic, unpredictable situations we have to make sure they can work.

Edit: @Bauber I’d also like to clarify that I’m not disputing you on a legal basis at all here. I absolutely understand the principle you are advancing, and I agree in principle.

The shitty part about our present situation is that I have to consider the practice more than the principle. Hopefully that’s temporary.

Don’t post here much, but these two cited examples are poor illustrations of the QI question and raised my hackles a bit.

I generally agree with your posts, but you answered these questions like a lawyer.

You either intentionally misrepresented the details of Baxter v. Bracey or did not read the decision. Baxter was seated…in a dark basement…of a house he’d broken into…twice…after running from the cops…who warned him to surrender…multiple times.

Baxter had not responded to officers’ commands, had not been searched for weapons, and gave no indication of surrender other than holding still in a dark basement. He claimed his hands were raised. There was no corroboration of this. The dog bit him once and released on command. This is Graham v. Connor territory and appears reasonable to me as well as SCOTUS.

Jessop is a little murkier, and a tiny bit more supportive of QI. In Jessop, the cops seized several thousands of dollars in cash from an illegal gambling operation. The crooks alleged the cops booked some into evidence while pocketing more. This theft was not found nor proven. The crooks sued civilly, and the appellate dismissed the suit citing QI. Specifically, the cops seized the cash pursuant to a search warrant. How much cash was disputed by the crooks. QI applied ONLY due to the valid execution of a search warrant and subsequent civil suit. Had the cops’ theft been proven, QI would not apply, since they would have then violated the crooks’ civil rights and committed intentional felony Penal Code violations outside the scope of their duties. The cops could be and would likely be charged with any number of theft and civil rights violations. Again, the theft was not proven, only alleged by crooks.

As a lawyer, you well know QI is NOT a get-out-of-jail free card. It needs tweaks and adjustments, I agree, but illegal is still illegal. Cops get arrested and convicted. (Ask Johannes Meserle and the George Floyd gang).

Carry on, ladies and gentlemen. Back to the lurky-lurker shadows for me…

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Those that have lawful monopoly on violence shouldn’t have QI as it stands in its current form.

My main issue is the dropping of the first prong of the test since 2009 by the Supreme Court. Did the officer violate a Constitutional right? - can just be passed over at the discretion of the court. Excuse me, what?

I’ll respond to the rest later when I have more time and not on my phone.

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Goodness, no! We have unarmed security, who attend the same ā€œcrisis deescalationā€ classes I do. We’re starting a new system currently. I’ve done the online portion (ridiculously basic, with no option to just take the stupid tests and move on) but am priority 3 for the in-person portion, which I believe runs two days. Currently the ED and PSIU (psych inpatient) are rolling through it, next will be us - outpatient behavioral health - then any medical departments thought to need it. Here’s what we’ll get:

Discover how AVADEĀ® Training is not only for the Workplace, but also the Lifeplace.

When faced with violence and aggression, stress and fear can overwhelm you. Our experienced trainers will teach you how to manage your stress and fear, while providing you with proven de-escalation and self-defense strategies and techniques.

We needed something harder-ass than the previous system, because staff are still complaining about the violence they’re subjected to. This was two years ago’s system:

Pro-ACT is based on a set of principles that focus on maintaining client dignity and keeping people safe. Offering professionals the skills needed to reduce or avoid restraint, the Pro-ACT curriculum provides Train-the-Trainer as well as In-service training.

In both cases, we’ve been asked if we’d like to train to be trainers, so I’d be the one teaching this self-defense. Which you may be able to guess is a colossal joke (I declined). My clinic manager was one of two Pro-Act trainers when I did the training. She looks like a classic cartoon ā€œsmart girl,ā€ with bright red hair and glasses, and sometimes multiple pens stuck in her bun or pony tail or whatever distracted, messy thing she’s pulled it into. Which sort of describes everyone I work with, now that I think about it. A bunch of cartoon characters, none of whom would be cast as a bad ass.

In the event of a weapon drawn or physical aggression police are called and staff handle it until they arrive. We also have - separately - active shooter trainings, which amount to locking ourselves into whatever space we can and not opening the door to our coworkers no matter how much they beg. Sorry, Sara, no can do!

Bear in mind that my clinic prescribes psychotropic medication and the medication providers often do UA’s, which means that sometimes people are cut off or refused meds they want. We’re somewhat protected by our very limited benzos and stimulant policy, but the people we serve often come to us after an inpatient stint, and we do have recent ex-cons and recovering addicts.

I worked with a nurse in the immediate aftermath of an attack on the psych floor. She’s under 5’ tall, and the attacker - a large psychotic woman - took her down and pulled out a maybe 3" square swatch of hair. Working in community health, one of my coworkers (male) was attacked with a hammer and another (female) was punched in the face. In the case of the hammer attack another coworker with martial arts training was able to subdue, so no injury. Lucky that guy was there.

Meanwhile, LEO morale and recruitment is at a low for my lifetime. Allowing the lawsuits to start flying won’t improve the situation as a whole.

I don’t disagree with you, and don’t know how to manage the need to keep both sides safe.

My son thought briefly about law enforcement while in college, but decided no for the reasons you cite. It’s a loss for whatever community he might have served - as a little boy he wanted to grow up to be ā€œa hero.ā€ He loves rules and he loves rescuing people. He’s now a 911 dispatcher. If he’s able to hang on I’m sure he’ll move up the ranks, but they, too, are woefully understaffed, which means endless overtime, no predictability in time off, and of course exposure to horror taking the calls.

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De-escalation is a myth, a joke. It only works on those it works on. I’ve witnessed plenty of belligerent people become more emboldened when someone uses de-escalation techniques as they see it as weakness and fear; the very response they want.

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I’m pretty likable or easy or something, and have a solid history of settling people down who are ratcheting up, male and female alike, but to walk into an already-waving-weapon situation? You’re right. And I frankly don’t want to!

Why?

To balance out all of the effeminate men.

Would an increase in butch women benefit normal men?

I don’t know how this will sound, but as I’ve gotten older I’ve come to the conclusion that anything that does not benefit normal men, benefits no one. I think our society doesn’t really understand how important normal men are to keeping things together.

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Here’s my hot take for the thread.

If we eliminate Qualified Immunity for Law Enforcement Officers and replace it with nothing, the public can rest assured that today’s dive bar bouncers stand ready to perform the police work of the future if nobody else wants to do it. All they will need is arrest power, a handgun and some form of immunity against asking young females to show their tits in the most awkward and insulting way possible.

In a free society people get to self-select for the jobs they do.

those who are just posturing, and know that they are the weaker protagonist; ā€œde-escalationā€ gives them the opportunity to back off while saving face.

I agree. I can’t ever ā€œwinā€ a fight being a bigger guy. Either I descalate and let them have a social victory, or I become the asshole who picked on someone smaller.

I dunno.

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Why on earth would it have to?

There are submissive men looking for women who lead just as there are submissive women looking for men who lead. It’s a spectrum. You may want to be the unquestioned leader of your household, but I do better with a man who prefers a partnership. I would say that on a 1-10 scale for dominance, I am a 4 and my husband is a 6. It all adds up. In some relationships one person is a 2 and the other is an 8. Fine!

What is a ā€œnormal manā€?

Also, why not butch women who prefer to be alone? These have always been important to our society. 200 years ago they were the long term teachers and nurses and such - women who didn’t seek to center around home and family. Today they have more freedom. Good!

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Are you, perchance, exercising passive-aggression?

Agree!
I don’t know if having more butch women is good or bad, but I certainly don’t advocate for going back to when women were forced in the home or discouraged from professional or physical achievement (outside of childbirth)

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No passive aggression with that hot take.

I have zero interest in a mid life career shift from manufacturing management to Law Enforcement. My days of de-escalating and sometimes escalating things with area dive bar knuckle-heads are in the past as well.

I’m just illustrating the type of candidate we can expect as people like your son choose other career paths and decade plus veterans like @marine77 look for other ways to make a living.

Like any job in society, you are stuck with the people willing to do the work. Intelligent men and women who are wired for aggression but wise enough to show restraint are who we want in law enforcement.

The problem is that intelligent and wise people don’t want to be the next viral video to have their lives shattered for the sake of corrupt politicians.

Enter your neighborhood bouncers and security workers. They are ready. Just give them that gun, those arrest powers and be ready to look the other way when the misconduct becomes rampant.

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