John, dont forget about us. 
Still waiting to hear about that seminar.
Sully, after tantrum’s post, I see why you’re keeping quiet on this one. There’s no use.
I’m movin’ into the “bloatis is right” camp. Free T-Shirts are indeed cool (but not cooler than free beer), and I’ve never owned a light purple polo shirt (fashionably smart people would never).
And I can even beat irondoc’s price: just pay for all my beer and food. On second thought…that may be more…
Im not for either side, but tantrum is entitled to a different opinion bloatis. If you think you can “save him from his stupidity”, thats not the way.
I dont know much about CP. just rumors. I do know tantrum is a VERY serious athlete, and I believe him (as I believe you)
peace.
My dad can beat up your dad…
My experience with him tells me he is an asshole. Saw him training someone once. I waited for his session to be done before approaching him because I didn’t want to disturb him. Later approached him and asked him a question concerning one of his training principles and he told me to go on his website. I could find his number there and I could call him and ask him anything I want for the aforementioned fee. Fucking dick! I’ve spoken on the phone with Ian King personally, a few times, for FREE. I had emailed him and he responded by emailing me back his home phone number, asking me to call him because it would be easier to discuss my issues on the phone. When I called, I got his answereing service and I left him my number. Sure enough he called me back shortly after and we were on the phone for quite a while. I had the same experience with Ethan Reeve, another great strength coach you are bound to hear more of. I have also spoken via email with Christian Thibaudeau and Chad Waterbury several times, always getting great info and always for no charge. I can understand the guy is busy and he is trying to make a living, but sometimes crossing the line of being rude is not acceptable.
Tantrum, I can only hope you earn the right to know the man personally on a first name basis, and intern with him for years, attend every seminar he offers, spend endless time with him, training his clients, your clients, going to lunch and dinner and performing ART for thrice the normal rate as I had the pleasure of doing. Trust me, I know exactly what Im talking about, I was introduced to Ashwaganda, and all that bullshit years before he even put any of it in print. Obviously you have not had him teach you how to squat in person, and yes you can pass your toes on a squat and not just a lunge. As some one who saw a huge majority of the programs he wrote during that time I can tell you that yes leg curls are a staple in his workouts and yes, again, they do suck for athletes. You say GVT worked for you and thats ok, maybe you are/were small and week at the time you did it. It will do nothing but shrink and weaken most people. And Im sure you think the arm cure worked, I thought so too. You say that Ian King uses Poliquins tempo ideas? Well my uninformed friend, I hate to tell you but it was Kings idea first. I like Ian King and think he’s a great guy but I stand by my statement that tempo is a waste of time. Did Arnold train on a 505 tempo, did Kaz bench on a 402, does Ed Coan, how about WWE Champion Triple H, or some big mofo in a prison yard weight pit? Of course not. People have gotten big and strong for years without the use of this gimmick which was only introduced in the 90’s. It may have limited application for beginners, injury situations or purely hypertrophy work, but then thats just straight bodybuilding and thats not how a man trains.
Nate Dogg, glad I could entertain you with some good reading. Thanks.
Also, I agree with all those talking about what stand up nice guys people like King and Davies are. That is definitely the most important thing in business.
And just in case anyone is interested, David Boston has severed his connection with the defendant; for very good reasons.
Two more cases in point on why leg curls suck, Mo Vaughn and Shaun Springs, under Koresh’s I mean CP’s guidance, performed leg curl after leg curl and both popped their hamstrings at the start of the season. But tanrum, you should ignore this, I am merely trying to entertain good people like Nate and Goldberg, you should definitely do 10 sets of 10 on Atlantis seated, lying, and kneeling leg curls as many times a week as possible. You’ll be runnin a 4.0 40 and pullin 700lbs in no time.
im gonna add my .02 here. i dont know poliquin and i dont care to knwo him, he probabaly is an a-hole for all i know, but as i said i dont really care because im not trying to budy up to him. obviously the one day arm cure is lame, i cant see anyone arguing against that. but i will say that i have had great success with some of his other methods, mainly the “maximal weights” routine. i freaken love that routine. i got stronger than a bull on that program in a short period of time. i also believe that tempo is important and an effetive method for increasing hypertrophy. what i like to do is take the best of both worlds and design a nice program. i use ian kings training splits, poliquins tut, as well as his exercise recommendations, add a little of my own personal needs in there and i get a kick ass program.
Bloatis, I can see the light.
You are right. I totaly changed my mind after that last post.
Thank you for warning us!
BTW, Arnold, Ed Coan, Kaz, guys in a prison yard… I am wondering how those guys got big. Interesting. Let me get back to you on that one… hahaha. LOL.
Loopfit, you mentioned how Ian King and others were gracious enough to give of their time for free. But ya know what? Last time I recall mention on t-mag of Ian King’s whereabouts, it was said that he has shifted his focus from weight training to other ventures, in an interest to create a better financial picture for himself and his family. Anybody else recall this?
My point in mentioning this is, maybe the experts we love for giving it out for free are not thriving financially, because they are not approaching their careers in a smart way, from the business side. Do we begrudge Kobe Bryant or any other superstar athlete for making millions? Heck, no, they earn what they are worth, that’s how the capitalism and the free market works. So why must we cop an attitude on Charles Poliquin for charging people for his training advice? Excuse me, that’s his living!!! He’s not one of your gym buddies. As for the rates he chooses to charge, there’s a reason why people are paying him that much: over years, he developed a reputation of producing great results, consistently. It’s not just based on successful marketing hype.
None of what I have said here means his training ideas are always currently the best. But let’s drop the jealously because he is well-compensated.
Bloatis, I appreciate your posts, and you are especially worth listening to, as you are speaking from extensive personal experience. You have pointed out many specific examples of CP ideas which you don’t believe work well. Is it fair to say that there are also many ideas he teaches that are also effective? Or, would it be more accurate to say that most of what he teaches is crap? I’m not seeking to debate you, I’m actually curious what you think.
Another question: do you believe Charles reputation is based more on producing great results with people, or smart marketing? I stated my opinion in previous post, but again, I’m curious what you think. You’ve worked with the man, and his clients, I haven’t.
I’ve enjoyed reading what you have to say. Cheers,
bluedreamer
Tantrum, I am truly sorry for offending you and your hero. You saw right through my unfounded personal vendetta against him. I was not merely just offering advice and trying to help people out like I have been on the Westside 3 thread. I had nothing better to do and you got me. Thank you, double up on the ashwaganda, leg curl on a 8080 tempo all day, and get an enema, they all do wonders. Happy training my friend, I’ll talk to you in 5 years. We’ll have a deadlift contest then I’ll be the one laughing.
Bluedreamer, trust me Ian King has done pretty well for himself financially. And on top of that, he has respect and good words from most who deal with him. Order one of his products(videos,books) and you won’t get some operator on the line who doesn’t give jack-shit about you, you will actually get Ian or his wife Theresa personally taking care of you. Even though they are busy, and yes Ian has expanded to other areas of financial growth, he still brings a hands-on approach to his work. Remember, what goes around comes around. Bloatis is also right about the tempo prescription. CP likes to claim it was he who invented it, but he stole it from Ian King.
Ok, enough with the childish games, I want to make a point here:
What Bluedreamer said is exactly my thoughts of this industry.
I understand that a lot of unknown coaches like to give out some free advice, sometimes answering countless questions on internet forums, talking over the phone, hell, even meeting up with people in person to give some tips and training advice, but hey, they do that in order to let people know how good the advice they are giving out really is, in order to be able to tag it with a price tag later. Kind of a preview.
I think that its very nice. I’ve done that. Almost every professional in the field have done that. Its nice to have a way to start up, and get the ball rolling in this game. And we all know its that easy. If you are dedicated, willing to help people, and have some good advice to give out, you will succeed.
Now, we have a lot of experts who reached the next level. They have lots of clients, working full-time, etc. They are well known, and sell their training advice, according to the price they think they should get for it.
We also have those transitioning from the ‘free advisors’ to the more professional level. They are willing to give out some free advice, but to a certain extent. Anything beyond that, they ask for money. Thats great also, becoming professional, which doesnt happen in one day.
I think that due to the ‘transitioning’ experts, a lot of people do the mistake of thinking training advice should come for free. Not true. The fact is that this field is wide open for everyone, and you can make your name with free advice, doesnt mean there is no place for experts. Can you imagine good free legal advice? or medical advice? Of course not! Those people are professional and make a living giving advice.
I think Poliquin is one of few who made it to the next level. He is a training authority, and full professional, and although he is very expesive for me, I have nothing but respect for him, and do admire any services he DOES give out to the strength-training comunity like his web site. Dont expect him to stay at the gym overtime to discuss any training issues you have. Stop taking it personally when some expert is asking for money, or not willing to give out training advice for free.
Think of someone hanging out near a law firm, waiting for someone to get out so he can ask for some legal advice.
Give me a break. The man doesnt owe you nothing. Stop harassing him, he is busy!
Bloatis it is very interesting to here you information about Poliquin and his training of athletes. It seems like he has had success with some of his athletes, an example being Al MacInnis who has the hardest slap shot in the NHL. However he has failed with others like Mo Vaughn who has spent alot of time on the disabled list and also Edgar Martinez, although he is a great hitter, he has gone down with multiple leg injuries. I’m interested to see what happens to David Boston this year, if he isn’t running over people like he says he will, then what a waste of time.
Okay, I’ve got to chime in here as well.
As with an earlier post, you guys have to understand the difference between being an asshole and being a professional. The two have nothing to do with each other. They often overlap; they are often separate.
Here in Japan, people literally walk up to me wanting to speak English. Of course, they can’t speak English. What they really want is to try to speak English and have me correct them. In other words, they want a free English lesson.
When this happens, I will politely hand them one of my business cards and tell them to call me at work and we’ll set up a lesson. They never call. Sometimes, when people walk up and start to speak English with me, I pretend that I’m French and don’t speak English. But I tell them (in Japanese) that I’ll be very happy to speak with them in Japanese, should they wish to converse. Very few people take me up on it. In other words, they’re only interested in what they can get for free.
This is the same thing. CP doesn’t owe you anything. If you want advice, you should call him. The only reason that you didn’t call him, and that you thought of him at all, is because you happened to see him in a gym somewhere. You don’t care about CP; why should he care about you? That’s not being an asshole, that’s just being professtional.
Now, if you’re someone who’s paid for a seminar, ask a question, and CP shoots you down and makes fun of you for not knowing more, then he’s an asshole. A big one. But let’s not confuse the two issues.
“However he has failed with others like Mo Vaughn who has spent alot of time on the disabled list and also Edgar Martinez, although he is a great hitter, he has gone down with multiple leg injuries.”
mo vaughn has had two major injuries. one when he fell down the dugout stairs in anaheim, and his current career threatening injury which is an arthritic knee. not to mention a life time of being way over weight. somehow i dont think CP is responsible here.
edgar martinez is hitting .302 with 22hrs and 85 rbi at 40 years of age. i would hardly call that a failure.
Edgar is awesome
OK, I have to chime in here. And Bloatis, I’d love to see you respond to my message. Especially, could u specify his diet recommendations as of very recent, have they changed at all or is is still super high protein, around 90g fat from lean meat and “Smart Fats”, and 50g carbs from greens w/ a high carb day/meal every 5 days, or has the info changed at all??
OK, Poliquin IS an asshole, a big one. I PAID a lot of money for attending one of his body-comp seminars a few years back (being a student, it wasnt cheap), and during a break, several people were talking to him, people he must have obviously known from the past. I waited a while, standing to the side, and when he was free I said hi to him. He responded w/ a short, nasty response, “can’t you see i’m on my break now”. He made me feel like I was a piece of shit. He’s a friggin prick, I don’t care what anyone else says about him being a professional or making a living, u don’t treat people who paid a lot of money to see you that way. He’s also short as hell and nowhere near as big as I thought he would be. Anyway, I still read his information b/c I think he is a good source for training info, but he sucks in the personality department. I’ve talked to several others who agree w/ his attitude problem, even if they’ve paid the man money.
In terms of diet advice, I have and have read of a few others that have had no success w/ his advice. If u search posts from a few years back, one person in particular got excedingling worse results, muscle loss, and no fat loss w/ poliquins consultations, and addressed his issues here at the forum. Poliquin personally called the guy up, went off on him, and told him never to contact him again. Poliquin DOES NOT have all the answers. And most of his nutrition info comes from Serrano(another questionable source of information, he claims to be big on food allergies, yet recommends pizza as the BEST carb load food (w/ wheat/egg/cheese/tomatoes), some of the top food allergens, and high in fat and carbs. Also claimed that rice makes blacks fat, this I know was from his experience w/ 1, thats rite, 1, bodybuilder, Todd Buchanan, who was black and got bloated from rice. So he concluded that rice makes all blacks fat, LOL) and Dipasquale (now supplement whore (just subscribe to his metabolic diet site, and see the advertisement emails you get weekly), and advocate of only ONE diet, his poorly written CKD, the Metabolic Diet, actually its a cut and paste of the anabolic diet w/ little extra info, and PAGES and PAGES of sample diets at every calorie level and food nutritional info, oh, and dont forget his radical weight loss diet, which i was dumb enough to order, starve yourself w/ a low calorie, low protein starvation diet, and when u finally lose 2 lbs carb load, back to crashing, lose another 2 lbs, carb load, etc) And the enema, mineral deficieny info actually comes from a good source, Dr. Sherry Rogers. She has a few interesting books out.
Poliquin also claims eating the same foods again and again will make u allergic to it. Talked this over w/ Elzi Volk and Lyle McDonald and they basically said that is B.S. Oh, and Poliquin has also stated he has athletes that have eaten 2g protein per lb. of bodyweight and were still in a negative nitrogen balance. How did he test this, and is this possible??? He said having them eat 2.25g per lb. resulted in gains though. Oh, and a woman who used to use a moderate carb diet w/ high protein to get into contest shape, now is having problems getting into shape, but now she is using a zero carb, high fat diet. She asked if the low carbs is slowing her thyroid, causing a problem w/ her fat loss. Poliquin just says that she should get blood work done and that she may have excess estrogen floating around, so take flaxseeds. No address of the diet is mentioned. Anyway, I can go on but he is just ANOTHER source of info. (Oh, and if I didn’t mention, he’s a prick) But in all seriousness, I do respect some of the info he provides and read what he writes.