Planning My First Cut Two Months in Advance

Training
41

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:

[quote]Chopatoua wrote:

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:
carbs peri workout [/quote]

Is this pre or post workout bud?
[/quote]
Peri, mean around. Before, during, after, as long as your kicking ass is not a big deal. You think your maint. is 2000? Unless your like 5’5" and 40 I think you’re gonna starve yourself.
How old are you, weight/height? Idea of bf? roughly and where you wanna be?[/quote]

Damn, I must be older and shorter than I thought! I’m at around 2000 cal/day right now, shedding 2-4lbs/week and even made a few PRs last week…def not starving. This is why you have to be careful with throwing out numbers. Different strokes for different folks. [/quote]
True enough, people are different. Losing 2-4# a week of what though? That will work for a few weeks, but unless you have a magical metabolism, I don’t think it will work for long. Where can you go down to after 2000k a day and keep muscle/strength/performance?
Maybe it’s just me?

42

Would my routine be better if I dropped each exercise to three sets?

I tried going heavier today on the flat bench and these are my numbers

Incline bench press
10@50KG
10@50KG
10@50KG
10@50KG

Flat bench
6@60KG
4@60KG
10@50KG
10@50KG

CG bench press
10@40KG
10@40KG
10@40KG
6@40KG

Flies
12@14KG
12@14KG
10@14KG
10@14KG

Single arm dumbbell tricep extension
12@6KG
12@6KG
6@8KG
12@6KG

Compared to last monday

incline press
10@50KG
10@50KG
10@50KG
10@50KG

Flat bench
10@50KG
10@52.5KG
10@52.5KG
10@52KG

Flies
10@14KG
10@14KG
10@14KG
10@14KG

CG Bench press
10@35KG
7@40KG
10@35KG
10@32.5KG

Single arm tricep extension
10@6KG
7@8KG
10@6KG
8@6KG

Would it be a good idea to choose a weight I can do 4-6 times and keep at that weight till I can do 12 every set then up the weight to one I can only do 4-6 times?

43

This is what stands out to me:

[quote]Chopatoua wrote:
Hey guys, I am currently clean bulking at around 3500 calories and getting some gains, all kinds.
[/quote]

Later in the thread:

[quote]Chopatoua wrote:
I have a mass gainer and whey shake during the day and usually have around 300 grams of chicken 200 grams of white rice, bit of fruit and veg and a couple hundred calories go to unhealthy food to make up t the end of the day.
[/quote]

What do you really eat during the day? You listed your chicken, rice and shakes but I noticed you left out your calories that make up the “end of the day”. I’ll bet, without even seeing your diet, if you cut that stuff out that you’d see a difference. Be honest with yourself about what you’re eating. Just clean up your diet, you don’t need to cut. IMO you do not have an appreciable amount of mass to consider cutting.

Work out harder.
Clean up diet.
If that slows, add some cardio.

44

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:

[quote]Chopatoua wrote:

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:
carbs peri workout [/quote]

Is this pre or post workout bud?
[/quote]
Peri, mean around. Before, during, after, as long as your kicking ass is not a big deal. You think your maint. is 2000? Unless your like 5’5" and 40 I think you’re gonna starve yourself.
How old are you, weight/height? Idea of bf? roughly and where you wanna be?[/quote]

Damn, I must be older and shorter than I thought! I’m at around 2000 cal/day right now, shedding 2-4lbs/week and even made a few PRs last week…def not starving. This is why you have to be careful with throwing out numbers. Different strokes for different folks. [/quote]
True enough, people are different. Losing 2-4# a week of what though? That will work for a few weeks, but unless you have a magical metabolism, I don’t think it will work for long. Where can you go down to after 2000k a day and keep muscle/strength/performance?
Maybe it’s just me?
[/quote]

I’m strongly hoping 2-4lbs of water weight and fat considering my strength levels have slowly held and even creeped up a little on big lifts. I’m working with Shelby, so I really hope he’d slow me down if he thought I was losing muscle. It hasn’t been just a few weeks. I’ve dropped 26lbs over 11 weeks. Where to go down to if needed? Less than 2000? What’s so magical about that number? If I were doing rapid fat loss I’d have 1200 days.

45

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:

[quote]Chopatoua wrote:

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:
carbs peri workout [/quote]

Is this pre or post workout bud?
[/quote]
Peri, mean around. Before, during, after, as long as your kicking ass is not a big deal. You think your maint. is 2000? Unless your like 5’5" and 40 I think you’re gonna starve yourself.
How old are you, weight/height? Idea of bf? roughly and where you wanna be?[/quote]

Damn, I must be older and shorter than I thought! I’m at around 2000 cal/day right now, shedding 2-4lbs/week and even made a few PRs last week…def not starving. This is why you have to be careful with throwing out numbers. Different strokes for different folks. [/quote]
True enough, people are different. Losing 2-4# a week of what though? That will work for a few weeks, but unless you have a magical metabolism, I don’t think it will work for long. Where can you go down to after 2000k a day and keep muscle/strength/performance?
Maybe it’s just me?
[/quote]

I’m strongly hoping 2-4lbs of water weight and fat considering my strength levels have slowly held and even creeped up a little on big lifts. I’m working with Shelby, so I really hope he’d slow me down if he thought I was losing muscle. It hasn’t been just a few weeks. I’ve dropped 26lbs over 11 weeks. Where to go down to if needed? Less than 2000? What’s so magical about that number? If I were doing rapid fat loss I’d have 1200 days. [/quote]
Now, with the extra info you’ve provided it’s a little more in perspective. My guess is Shelby didn’t have you just drop from where ever you were to 2000K. And you’re averaging 2#'s plus a week, which is reasonable.
And this guy isn’t under the supervision of a professional like Shelby Starnes, so that makes it a little different too.

46

besides you eating too many calories, your routine still sucks

do you really think doing 9-12 sets is going to stimulate as much growth(would have to be 3x for it to be good) as doing 2-3 sets 3x a week?

no, it isn’t… so you’re wasting your time on this split

suggest you get on a strength program or fullbody

you shouldn’t be weightlifting for cardio or whatever you are trying to do with this horrible routine

47

Qeynos- I am slightly awe struck at your last statement. Are you saying you honestly believe you need 27 - 36 sets to fully stimulate your chest and triceps… are you serious… I am and have made amazing gains with barely over sets and and I follow alot of westside beliefs so after a Max’s effort lift or dynamic lift I hit 3-4 assistance exercises for 3-4 sets and I am out.

Say today for instance
High Box Squat- single at 430( took roughly 8 warm up sets)
Weighted GHR- 4 sets of 12
Reverse Hypers- 3 sets of 20
Sit up against bands - 4 sets of 15.
Calf Press - 3 sets of 8.

Counting my warm up setsI did 23 sets and hit Hans quads glutes core and calves with half the volumes you suggest for just one muscle. Why do you sway you need so many sets I am fucking anialated right now…

48

[quote]Reed wrote:
Qeynos- I am slightly awe struck at your last statement. Are you saying you honestly believe you need 27 - 36 sets to fully stimulate your chest and triceps… are you serious… I am and have made amazing gains with barely over sets and and I follow alot of westside beliefs so after a Max’s effort lift or dynamic lift I hit 3-4 assistance exercises for 3-4 sets and I am out.

Say today for instance
High Box Squat- single at 430( took roughly 8 warm up sets)
Weighted GHR- 4 sets of 12
Reverse Hypers- 3 sets of 20
Sit up against bands - 4 sets of 15.
Calf Press - 3 sets of 8.

Counting my warm up setsI did 23 sets and hit Hans quads glutes core and calves with half the volumes you suggest for just one muscle. Why do you sway you need so many sets I am fucking anialated right now…[/quote]

where did I say that? I only do 3 sets

when I said 3x I meant if you are hitting something once a week with 9-12 sets instead of 3x a week with 3 sets, that your muscle gains would have to be 3x as much from those 9-12 sets for the workout program to be as good as the 3x a week one

the sad thing about these volume programs is that you can do like 1/5th the amount of work and get much faster gains, I have no idea why people do them

49

Ok sorryci just missed understood how you wrote it… continue on as I never wrote any thing lol.

50

[quote]qeynos wrote:

[quote]Reed wrote:
Qeynos- I am slightly awe struck at your last statement. Are you saying you honestly believe you need 27 - 36 sets to fully stimulate your chest and triceps… are you serious… I am and have made amazing gains with barely over sets and and I follow alot of westside beliefs so after a Max’s effort lift or dynamic lift I hit 3-4 assistance exercises for 3-4 sets and I am out.

Say today for instance
High Box Squat- single at 430( took roughly 8 warm up sets)
Weighted GHR- 4 sets of 12
Reverse Hypers- 3 sets of 20
Sit up against bands - 4 sets of 15.
Calf Press - 3 sets of 8.

Counting my warm up setsI did 23 sets and hit Hans quads glutes core and calves with half the volumes you suggest for just one muscle. Why do you sway you need so many sets I am fucking anialated right now…[/quote]

where did I say that? I only do 3 sets

when I said 3x I meant if you are hitting something once a week with 9-12 sets instead of 3x a week with 3 sets, that your muscle gains would have to be 3x as much from those 9-12 sets for the workout program to be as good as the 3x a week one

the sad thing about these volume programs is that you can do like 1/5th the amount of work and get much faster gains, I have no idea why people do them

[/quote]

No. It doesn’t work like that. If that’s the case, why don’t I schedule 3 lifting sessions/day where I do one set for chest each session. This is better than doing 21 sets in one workout on monday, right? Right?!!! cuz the gaines would have to be 21x better! Better split it up more!

C’mon son. No idea why people do them? Look around at…idk…any pro or amateur BBer.

51

Qeynos- just out of curiosity would you post what you feel is a proper split and program… just so I fan wrap my head around where exactly your coming from.

52

[quote]Reed wrote:
Qeynos- just out of curiosity would you post what you feel is a proper split and program… just so I fan wrap my head around where exactly your coming from.[/quote]
Good luck with that…

53

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]qeynos wrote:

[quote]Reed wrote:
Qeynos- I am slightly awe struck at your last statement. Are you saying you honestly believe you need 27 - 36 sets to fully stimulate your chest and triceps… are you serious… I am and have made amazing gains with barely over sets and and I follow alot of westside beliefs so after a Max’s effort lift or dynamic lift I hit 3-4 assistance exercises for 3-4 sets and I am out.

Say today for instance
High Box Squat- single at 430( took roughly 8 warm up sets)
Weighted GHR- 4 sets of 12
Reverse Hypers- 3 sets of 20
Sit up against bands - 4 sets of 15.
Calf Press - 3 sets of 8.

Counting my warm up setsI did 23 sets and hit Hans quads glutes core and calves with half the volumes you suggest for just one muscle. Why do you sway you need so many sets I am fucking anialated right now…[/quote]

where did I say that? I only do 3 sets

when I said 3x I meant if you are hitting something once a week with 9-12 sets instead of 3x a week with 3 sets, that your muscle gains would have to be 3x as much from those 9-12 sets for the workout program to be as good as the 3x a week one

the sad thing about these volume programs is that you can do like 1/5th the amount of work and get much faster gains, I have no idea why people do them

[/quote]

No. It doesn’t work like that. If that’s the case, why don’t I schedule 3 lifting sessions/day where I do one set for chest each session. This is better than doing 21 sets in one workout on monday, right? Right?!!! cuz the gaines would have to be 21x better! Better split it up more!

C’mon son. No idea why people do them? Look around at…idk…any pro or amateur BBer. [/quote]

??
i didn’t say splitting it up was better

the point is to stimulate growth and recover, splitting sets up might not work that well since there might be lack of stimulus compared to doing sets in same session.

please point me to where I said splitting it up would give more gains though? just saying volume routines are junk and barely stimulate more growth than a low volume routine, yet have you resting for a whole week that isn’t even needed

how many good workout routines are high volume / low frequency? none?

54

[quote]Reed wrote:
Qeynos- just out of curiosity would you post what you feel is a proper split and program… just so I fan wrap my head around where exactly your coming from.[/quote]

I think reg park 5x5 is a good program for beginners
http://www.trainingdimensions.net/tdArticles/Reg%20Park.pdf

or SS

or just doing fullbody 3x a week with 1 set to failure

it’s hard to get worse than the volume routine the OP posted though

55

Ok I that’s what I figured you meant just wanted to specify.

56

[quote]qeynos wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]qeynos wrote:

[quote]Reed wrote:
Qeynos- I am slightly awe struck at your last statement. Are you saying you honestly believe you need 27 - 36 sets to fully stimulate your chest and triceps… are you serious… I am and have made amazing gains with barely over sets and and I follow alot of westside beliefs so after a Max’s effort lift or dynamic lift I hit 3-4 assistance exercises for 3-4 sets and I am out.

Say today for instance
High Box Squat- single at 430( took roughly 8 warm up sets)
Weighted GHR- 4 sets of 12
Reverse Hypers- 3 sets of 20
Sit up against bands - 4 sets of 15.
Calf Press - 3 sets of 8.

Counting my warm up setsI did 23 sets and hit Hans quads glutes core and calves with half the volumes you suggest for just one muscle. Why do you sway you need so many sets I am fucking anialated right now…[/quote]

where did I say that? I only do 3 sets

when I said 3x I meant if you are hitting something once a week with 9-12 sets instead of 3x a week with 3 sets, that your muscle gains would have to be 3x as much from those 9-12 sets for the workout program to be as good as the 3x a week one

the sad thing about these volume programs is that you can do like 1/5th the amount of work and get much faster gains, I have no idea why people do them

[/quote]

No. It doesn’t work like that. If that’s the case, why don’t I schedule 3 lifting sessions/day where I do one set for chest each session. This is better than doing 21 sets in one workout on monday, right? Right?!!! cuz the gaines would have to be 21x better! Better split it up more!

C’mon son. No idea why people do them? Look around at…idk…any pro or amateur BBer. [/quote]

??
i didn’t say splitting it up was better

the point is to stimulate growth and recover, splitting sets up might not work that well since there might be lack of stimulus compared to doing sets in same session.

please point me to where I said splitting it up would give more gains though? just saying volume routines are junk and barely stimulate more growth than a low volume routine, yet have you resting for a whole week that isn’t even needed

how many good workout routines are high volume / low frequency? none?

[/quote]

I’m guessing English isn’t your first language? Or you’re very bad at communicating what you are trying to say. I still after reading this don’t know what you are endorsing for optimal gains anymore. Your posts seem to contradict themselves and then you say “no no no that’s not what I said.”

High volume/low frequency? Look up mountaindog routines…or like I said before, anything the vast majority of amateur BBers are doing on this very site.

57

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]qeynos wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]qeynos wrote:

[quote]Reed wrote:
Qeynos- I am slightly awe struck at your last statement. Are you saying you honestly believe you need 27 - 36 sets to fully stimulate your chest and triceps… are you serious… I am and have made amazing gains with barely over sets and and I follow alot of westside beliefs so after a Max’s effort lift or dynamic lift I hit 3-4 assistance exercises for 3-4 sets and I am out.

Say today for instance
High Box Squat- single at 430( took roughly 8 warm up sets)
Weighted GHR- 4 sets of 12
Reverse Hypers- 3 sets of 20
Sit up against bands - 4 sets of 15.
Calf Press - 3 sets of 8.

Counting my warm up setsI did 23 sets and hit Hans quads glutes core and calves with half the volumes you suggest for just one muscle. Why do you sway you need so many sets I am fucking anialated right now…[/quote]

where did I say that? I only do 3 sets

when I said 3x I meant if you are hitting something once a week with 9-12 sets instead of 3x a week with 3 sets, that your muscle gains would have to be 3x as much from those 9-12 sets for the workout program to be as good as the 3x a week one

the sad thing about these volume programs is that you can do like 1/5th the amount of work and get much faster gains, I have no idea why people do them

[/quote]

No. It doesn’t work like that. If that’s the case, why don’t I schedule 3 lifting sessions/day where I do one set for chest each session. This is better than doing 21 sets in one workout on monday, right? Right?!!! cuz the gaines would have to be 21x better! Better split it up more!

C’mon son. No idea why people do them? Look around at…idk…any pro or amateur BBer. [/quote]

??
i didn’t say splitting it up was better

the point is to stimulate growth and recover, splitting sets up might not work that well since there might be lack of stimulus compared to doing sets in same session.

please point me to where I said splitting it up would give more gains though? just saying volume routines are junk and barely stimulate more growth than a low volume routine, yet have you resting for a whole week that isn’t even needed

how many good workout routines are high volume / low frequency? none?

[/quote]

I’m guessing English isn’t your first language? Or you’re very bad at communicating what you are trying to say. I still after reading this don’t know what you are endorsing for optimal gains anymore. Your posts seem to contradict themselves and then you say “no no no that’s not what I said.”

High volume/low frequency? Look up mountaindog routines…or like I said before, anything the vast majority of amateur BBers are doing on this very site. [/quote]

so OP should be doing mountain dog training now?

ok

most of the people on those routines were massive when they started, just fyi, not people with 100 lb bench press

58

[quote]qeynos wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]qeynos wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]qeynos wrote:

[quote]Reed wrote:
Qeynos- I am slightly awe struck at your last statement. Are you saying you honestly believe you need 27 - 36 sets to fully stimulate your chest and triceps… are you serious… I am and have made amazing gains with barely over sets and and I follow alot of westside beliefs so after a Max’s effort lift or dynamic lift I hit 3-4 assistance exercises for 3-4 sets and I am out.

Say today for instance
High Box Squat- single at 430( took roughly 8 warm up sets)
Weighted GHR- 4 sets of 12
Reverse Hypers- 3 sets of 20
Sit up against bands - 4 sets of 15.
Calf Press - 3 sets of 8.

Counting my warm up setsI did 23 sets and hit Hans quads glutes core and calves with half the volumes you suggest for just one muscle. Why do you sway you need so many sets I am fucking anialated right now…[/quote]

where did I say that? I only do 3 sets

when I said 3x I meant if you are hitting something once a week with 9-12 sets instead of 3x a week with 3 sets, that your muscle gains would have to be 3x as much from those 9-12 sets for the workout program to be as good as the 3x a week one

the sad thing about these volume programs is that you can do like 1/5th the amount of work and get much faster gains, I have no idea why people do them

[/quote]

No. It doesn’t work like that. If that’s the case, why don’t I schedule 3 lifting sessions/day where I do one set for chest each session. This is better than doing 21 sets in one workout on monday, right? Right?!!! cuz the gaines would have to be 21x better! Better split it up more!

C’mon son. No idea why people do them? Look around at…idk…any pro or amateur BBer. [/quote]

??
i didn’t say splitting it up was better

the point is to stimulate growth and recover, splitting sets up might not work that well since there might be lack of stimulus compared to doing sets in same session.

please point me to where I said splitting it up would give more gains though? just saying volume routines are junk and barely stimulate more growth than a low volume routine, yet have you resting for a whole week that isn’t even needed

how many good workout routines are high volume / low frequency? none?

[/quote]

I’m guessing English isn’t your first language? Or you’re very bad at communicating what you are trying to say. I still after reading this don’t know what you are endorsing for optimal gains anymore. Your posts seem to contradict themselves and then you say “no no no that’s not what I said.”

High volume/low frequency? Look up mountaindog routines…or like I said before, anything the vast majority of amateur BBers are doing on this very site. [/quote]

so OP should be doing mountain dog training now?

ok

most of the people on those routines were massive when they started, just fyi, not people with 100 lb bench press
[/quote]

Never said OP should do mountain dog. That was a response to your bogus claim.

59


Since my training partner has limited time between work, his motorcycle club etc we were considering a 3 day split anyway, he is going to be doing something called carb cycling too.

Approved Carbohydrates:

Brown rice
Oats (Slow Cooked Preferred)
Sweet potatoes or Yams
Fiber One (All Bran) Cereal
Starchy Veggies (corn, peas, etc.)
Beans/Legumes
Approved Yet Limited Carbohydrates**
Whole-wheat pasta
Whole grain breads, pitas, etc.

Approved lean protein:

Chicken (white meat)
Turkey (white meat)
Tuna Fish (can)
Fish (flounder, tuna (fatty or not), salmon, shark, etc.)
Shellfish (all types)
Protein (preferably whey post workout, and casein before bed; MRPs must be low-carb)
Lean beef (including lean cuts of steak)
Cottage Cheese (0 or 1% fat)
Egg whites (egg beaters)

Approved higher fat protein sources:

Chicken (dark meat)
Turkey (dark meat)
Eggs (half whites, half whole eggs)
Steak and other meats (not exceptionally high fat cuts)
Cottage Cheese (Whole Milk)

Fat Sources (an amount equal to 10 to 15 grams of fat):

(Natural) Peanut Butter
Flax Oil
Heavy Whipping Cream
Mayonnaise
Hemp Seed Oil
Olive Oil

Essential supplements:

10-20 grams of fish oil per day

HIGH CARB DAY MACRO SPLIT-40P/50C/10F
LOW CARB DAY MACRO SPLIT-45P/10C/45F
NO CARB DAY MACRO SPLIT-48P/4C/48F

MONDAY-HIGH CARB
TUESDAY-LOW CARB
WEDNESDAY-HIGH CARB
THURSDAY-LOW CARB
FRIDAY-HIGH CARB
SATURDAY-NO CARB
SUNDAY-NO CARB

3 DAY SPLIT:

MONDAY-FLAT BENCH PRESS
CHEST FLIES
CG BENCH
DB EXTENSIONS

WEDNESDAY-BARBELL SQUAT
LEG CURL
SHOULDER PRESS
LATERAL RAISES
SHRUGS

FRIDAY-PULLUPS/LAT PULLDOWN
BARBELL BENT OVER ROW(UNDERHAND)
DEADLIFT
INCLINE CURLS
WRIST CURL AND RAISE SUPERSETS

60

Dude, no. Just no. You are not at a level where you need to carb cycle. And you need to lift more than 3 days a week. Screw this partner, rely on your self. Here’s your new routine and diet:
Day 1:
Bench 4 sets of ten
Squat 4 sets of ten
BB Row 4 sets of ten
Military Press 4 sets of ten
Some kind of ab shit, maybe curls if time.
Day 2: Run 3 miles or sprint
Day 3: Same as one, except do incline instead of flat bench, deadlift instead of squat, Use a different grip on rows (pronated, supinated, or neutral) or some kind of chinup, DB’s for over head press. Ab’s, curls, push ups, whatever.
Day 4: run or sprints
Day 5: off.
Rinse and repeat. It’s not that hard. It should take an hour after warm up. Sets should be challenging. You should be reasonably wiped out afterwards.
Recovery from full body is easy.
Running and sprinting will help you recover and burn fat.
Eat meat and veggies, the non carb kind, 2 pieces of fruit a day max, a cup of oatmeal or a sweet potato an hour before you work out. Keep it to 2500K a day. You’ll be stonger and leaner in two months. What else do you want?
Done.
/end thread