Decrease in Performance While Cutting

ZJStrope · February 29, 2012, 11:03pm

Hello everyone-

I wasn’t sure where else to put this so I stuck it here hoping to get some guidance. After taking a leave of absence from lifting due to some injuries, I “rehabbed” myself into a condition to start lifting again. My main goal was just to get into shape. I cleaned up my diet pretty good and started lifting and doing cardio about late November by just going out and lifting for an hour in a chest/back/legs methodology. This lasted about a month.

About the end of December, I started performing Semi-full body workouts 4-5x/week. Semi-full body means I hit every body part 3x/week, but I would skip a day on my main lift. So for instance, if my main lift for the day was chest, I wouldn’t perform chest until 2 workouts later. This let me workout 4…sometimes 5 times per week while still improving. I started feeling a little run down on this 2 weeks ago since I started dialing down my diet to lose fat, so I re-designed to 3x/week , full body since my focus is totally on fat loss for my Australia trip. In addition, I perform 20 mins of HIIT after 2 of my lifting sessions and 30 min SS on 2 non-workout days. Sometimes I do an additional cardio on the weekend. For 2 weeks, my lifts continued to improve and I started dropping weight…about 1-2/lbs per week.

So Monday came around and I was ready to do my heavy bench after destroying my lift last week and found I had to not only drop down to my previous week’s weight, but I had to drop 5 more pounds on my main lift and my other lifts stayed the same, albeit they felt harder. I kind of chalked it off to a bad weekend. Today, same thing with my Front Squat and I didn’t even feel like I had energy to finish my workout after all my big lifts. Details of my diet and workout below

5’11"
29 yo
178lbs (was about 190 in December)

Diet:
Breakfast: either 3 whole eggs, 2 sliced center cut bacon, 1 cup fruit OR 2 scoops MD, 1 cup Almond Milk, 1/2 cup fruit, tbsp PB

Lunch: 6-8oz meat, 1 serving carb (sweet potato, rice, etc) and veggies w/ 1tbsp dressing

Snack: MD Protein Bar

Workout: 3 scoops Xtend + 1 scoop SWF

Dinner: Same as Lunch

Snack: If I’m hungry, nuts or protein shake or PB. Something like that.

Also note I utilize Olive Oil in the cooking of my meats so I’m getting additional cals there too.

Weekend kind of follows this format but is a little more loose or interpretive. For instance, I usually make homemade pancakes with sugar free syrup or I’ll make a burger and actually have a bun!

So my issue at this point isn’t dropping fat (which oddly used to always be the problem), but evaluating my routine based on my energy consumption. Sadly, I’m not huge so I’m probably going to have to get down to around 170 to see my abs (if I’m lucky). I’m one of those people who puts on fat very, very easily.

Current workout:

Monday
Bench Press (10x3)
WG Pull-ups (4x6)
Lunges (3x8)
EZ Rev Grip Curls (3x12)
Shrugs (3x8)
Abs 3-4 sets of bridges or ab wheel or rev. crunch
20 mins HIIT

Tuesday
30 Min SS Cardio

Wednesday
Front Squat (10x3)
WG Dec BP (4x8)<—thinking of switching to 3x8
RDL (4x8)<—thinking of switching to 3x8
BO 1-Arm BB Row (4x8)<—thinking of switching to 3x8
EZ Bar Curls (4x8)<—thinking of switching to 3x8
OH EZ Bar Tricep Press (4x8)<—thinking of switching to 3x8

Thursday
30 min SS cardio

Friday
Chins (10x3)
TRX 1 leg squat (3x12)
TRX Leg Curls (3x12)
Inc. BP (3x10)
OH BB Press (3x10)
Skull Crushers (3x12)
20 mins HIIT

Sat and Sun: sometimes cardio, sometimes nothing. Try to stay busy somehow

And before the flames come about the routine, I only have a squat rack, bench, 1 BB, 1 EZ Curl bar, and 300lbs of weights so I only have so many options at this point.

Thanks in advance guys!!

-Z

Rocky2 · February 29, 2012, 11:10pm

So what’s your question?

Why can’t people these days clearly form a question?

ZJStrope · February 29, 2012, 11:16pm

[quote]Rocky2 wrote:
So what’s your question?

Why can’t people these days clearly form a question?[/quote]

Fair enough. Is there anything apparent from what I described which would lead to a decrease in my performance, and if so, what can I do to fix it, or is this something that I just have to live with as part of dropping fat?

BlakeAJackson · February 29, 2012, 11:19pm

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
Hello everyone-

I wasn’t sure where else to put this so I stuck it here hoping to get some guidance. After taking a leave of absence from lifting due to some injuries, I “rehabbed” myself into a condition to start lifting again. My main goal was just to get into shape. I cleaned up my diet pretty good and started lifting and doing cardio about late November by just going out and lifting for an hour in a chest/back/legs methodology. This lasted about a month.

About the end of December, I started performing Semi-full body workouts 4-5x/week. Semi-full body means I hit every body part 3x/week, but I would skip a day on my main lift. So for instance, if my main lift for the day was chest, I wouldn’t perform chest until 2 workouts later. This let me workout 4…sometimes 5 times per week while still improving. I started feeling a little run down on this 2 weeks ago since I started dialing down my diet to lose fat, so I re-designed to 3x/week , full body since my focus is totally on fat loss for my Australia trip. In addition, I perform 20 mins of HIIT after 2 of my lifting sessions and 30 min SS on 2 non-workout days. Sometimes I do an additional cardio on the weekend. For 2 weeks, my lifts continued to improve and I started dropping weight…about 1-2/lbs per week.

So Monday came around and I was ready to do my heavy bench after destroying my lift last week and found I had to not only drop down to my previous week’s weight, but I had to drop 5 more pounds on my main lift and my other lifts stayed the same, albeit they felt harder. I kind of chalked it off to a bad weekend. Today, same thing with my Front Squat and I didn’t even feel like I had energy to finish my workout after all my big lifts. Details of my diet and workout below

5’11"
29 yo
178lbs (was about 190 in December)

Diet:
Breakfast: either 3 whole eggs, 2 sliced center cut bacon, 1 cup fruit OR 2 scoops MD, 1 cup Almond Milk, 1/2 cup fruit, tbsp PB

Lunch: 6-8oz meat, 1 serving carb (sweet potato, rice, etc) and veggies w/ 1tbsp dressing

Snack: MD Protein Bar

Workout: 3 scoops Xtend + 1 scoop SWF

Dinner: Same as Lunch

Snack: If I’m hungry, nuts or protein shake or PB. Something like that.

Also note I utilize Olive Oil in the cooking of my meats so I’m getting additional cals there too.

Weekend kind of follows this format but is a little more loose or interpretive. For instance, I usually make homemade pancakes with sugar free syrup or I’ll make a burger and actually have a bun!

So my issue at this point isn’t dropping fat (which oddly used to always be the problem), but evaluating my routine based on my energy consumption. Sadly, I’m not huge so I’m probably going to have to get down to around 170 to see my abs (if I’m lucky). I’m one of those people who puts on fat very, very easily.

Current workout:

Monday
Bench Press (10x3)
WG Pull-ups (4x6)
Lunges (3x8)
EZ Rev Grip Curls (3x12)
Shrugs (3x8)
Abs 3-4 sets of bridges or ab wheel or rev. crunch
20 mins HIIT

Tuesday
30 Min SS Cardio

Wednesday
Front Squat (10x3)
WG Dec BP (4x8)<—thinking of switching to 3x8
RDL (4x8)<—thinking of switching to 3x8
BO 1-Arm BB Row (4x8)<—thinking of switching to 3x8
EZ Bar Curls (4x8)<—thinking of switching to 3x8
OH EZ Bar Tricep Press (4x8)<—thinking of switching to 3x8

Thursday
30 min SS cardio

Friday
Chins (10x3)
TRX 1 leg squat (3x12)
TRX Leg Curls (3x12)
Inc. BP (3x10)
OH BB Press (3x10)
Skull Crushers (3x12)
20 mins HIIT

Sat and Sun: sometimes cardio, sometimes nothing. Try to stay busy somehow

And before the flames come about the routine, I only have a squat rack, bench, 1 BB, 1 EZ Curl bar, and 300lbs of weights so I only have so many options at this point.

Thanks in advance guys!!

-Z[/quote]
When you are cutting you get weaker.

What is your goal? At 5 11 170 you are 5lbs away from weighing what most high-school kids you Hightower weigh. By that I mean what a doctor might say is an ideal weight for your height. Want to keep losing weight? Expect to lose some strength, want to gain some size eat some more and drop some as cardio.

ZJStrope · February 29, 2012, 11:45pm

[quote]BlakeAJackson wrote:

When you are cutting you get weaker.

What is your goal? At 5 11 170 you are 5lbs away from weighing what most high-school kids you Hightower weigh. By that I mean what a doctor might say is an ideal weight for your height. Want to keep losing weight? Expect to lose some strength, want to gain some size eat some more and drop some as cardio. [/quote]

Well my ultimate goal is to get bigger, but I’m in no rush. I’m currently in a rush just to look good naked for the Florida summer and my scuba diving trip in Australia.

I’m relatively strong (Bench Press 235, Squat 265, Deadlift 315) for my size and definitely understand I will need to have surplus calories and an intense lifting program to put on some muscle at some point.

In the scenario above though, I was just mostly concerned maybe I’m doing too much lifting (volume or too heavy) or not eating enough or something obvious like that since I was improving my lifts every week until this week. In the short-term, I’m more than happy to sacrifice some strength for this temporary goal. Basically, I just want to minimize the negatives.

Sometimes one just needs to be shown it is what it is

Aragorn · February 29, 2012, 11:53pm

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]BlakeAJackson wrote:

When you are cutting you get weaker.

What is your goal? At 5 11 170 you are 5lbs away from weighing what most high-school kids you Hightower weigh. By that I mean what a doctor might say is an ideal weight for your height. Want to keep losing weight? Expect to lose some strength, want to gain some size eat some more and drop some as cardio. [/quote]

Well my ultimate goal is to get bigger, but I’m in no rush. I’m currently in a rush just to look good naked for the Florida summer and my scuba diving trip in Australia.

I’m relatively strong (Bench Press 235, Squat 265, Deadlift 315) for my size and definitely understand I will need to have surplus calories and an intense lifting program to put on some muscle at some point.

In the scenario above though, I was just mostly concerned maybe I’m doing too much lifting (volume or too heavy) or not eating enough or something obvious like that since I was improving my lifts every week until this week. In the short-term, I’m more than happy to sacrifice some strength for this temporary goal. Basically, I just want to minimize the negatives.

Sometimes one just needs to be shown it is what it is :)[/quote]

Then don’t worry about it. When cutting you cannot expect to gain a lot of strength in your lifts. Sometimes you can do it, sometimes not. You should not really see a drop of more than 10% of your max strength however, and I would say no more than 5% for most people–if you do see a significant drop in max strength you are cutting calories too hard thus losing some muscle and/or not fueling your workouts properly. Generally, after a small drop in strength due to your muscles not being as full of glycogen and water (due to water loss and cutting carbs) you will not drop much more strength if you are cutting correctly.

ZJStrope · February 29, 2012, 11:57pm

Thanks Aragorn and Blake. So in your opinion, does my routine appear to be too much volume or just about right?

Aragorn · March 1, 2012, 12:09am

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
Thanks Aragorn and Blake. So in your opinion, does my routine appear to be too much volume or just about right?[/quote]

Too hard to say, I don’t know you. It doesn’t look outrageous by any means though. I have a couple people I train right now that would absolutely crush that volume while cutting. One is a fighter, he’s training 5x a week with weights in addition to doing hard daily sparring and technical work (conditioning work and cardio). The technical work averages about 2 hours a day, 6 days a week. The other is a 50 year old doctor (not a fighter lol). He works with me 3 days a week (full body strength and power work) and does 4-5 days a week of P90x with his wife at home as a light recovery workout to keep himself loose. Also good for the marriage to keep your wife happy lol. Told me he was thinking about dropping them because they were just too easy to get a sweat on.

So really, I don’t think it’s that extreme :).

ZJStrope · March 1, 2012, 12:17am

Awesome. Thanks again. I didn’t think it was. I’ve been lifting for a long time and have made A LOT of mistakes so I kind of thought this route addressed most of those mistakes I’ve made in the past. Glad to hear that it’s not far off base.

Maybe it’s just a bad week

My girlfriend wanted to know if it’s b/c we haven’t had sex this week (She’s out of town for work) lol. We usually have sex 1 to 2 times a day. To be honest, that’s the only thing that has changed since last week so maybe she has a point haha.

Aragorn · March 1, 2012, 12:25am

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
Awesome. Thanks again. I didn’t think it was. I’ve been lifting for a long time and have made A LOT of mistakes so I kind of thought this route addressed most of those mistakes I’ve made in the past. Glad to hear that it’s not far off base.

Maybe it’s just a bad week

My girlfriend wanted to know if it’s b/c we haven’t had sex this week (She’s out of town for work) lol. We usually have sex 1 to 2 times a day. To be honest, that’s the only thing that has changed since last week so maybe she has a point haha. [/quote]

Lol. No, no point, but I’d advise you to tell her that she’s right anyway, in a bunch of ways, just to make sure you can keep the multiple times daily habit going!

The3Commandments · March 1, 2012, 12:34am

Look at your daily intake. You’re currently barely eating anything.

ZJStrope · March 1, 2012, 12:54am

[quote]The3Commandments wrote:
Look at your daily intake. You’re currently barely eating anything. [/quote]

Yeah this is something I was considering, but I’m not losing weight crazily…so I’m going to meet myself half way and take in some more calories at least on lifting days starting tonight and see what happens on Friday

Mike_T1 · March 1, 2012, 1:17am

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
Hello everyone-

I wasn’t sure where else to put this

Thanks in advance guys!!

-Z[/quote]

Not sure what he is talking about either…

timmcbride00 · March 1, 2012, 8:23pm

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]The3Commandments wrote:
Look at your daily intake. You’re currently barely eating anything. [/quote]

Yeah this is something I was considering, but I’m not losing weight crazily…so I’m going to meet myself half way and take in some more calories at least on lifting days starting tonight and see what happens on Friday :)[/quote]

Your metabolism will slow if you aren’t eating enough. Plus your workouts will suffer if you don’t consume enough around your workout.

So two possible suggestions from me:

Load up on nutrients around the workout and balance it out the rest of the day with your intended macro totals
Don’t be scared to have a higher carb day here and there or an all out refeed to help jack up your metabolism if the weight loss is slow and you are already pretty restricted.

The3Commandments · March 1, 2012, 8:36pm

Someone should add (though I’m for all intents and purposes a beginner): your routine looks pretty awful. Get on an actual program that suits your goals, imo.

ZJStrope · March 1, 2012, 9:42pm

[quote]timmcbride00 wrote:
Your metabolism will slow if you aren’t eating enough. Plus your workouts will suffer if you don’t consume enough around your workout.

So two possible suggestions from me:

Load up on nutrients around the workout and balance it out the rest of the day with your intended macro totals
Don’t be scared to have a higher carb day here and there or an all out refeed to help jack up your metabolism if the weight loss is slow and you are already pretty restricted.[/quote]

Yeah I think you are completely correct. Something I didn’t think of is usually I eat A LOT more on the weekends but for whatever reason, I didn’t…especially on Sunday. I’ve already started upping my cals and will definitely be taking in a significant more on lifting days from here on out.

ZJStrope · March 1, 2012, 9:43pm

[quote]The3Commandments wrote:
Someone should add (though I’m for all intents and purposes a beginner): your routine looks pretty awful. Get on an actual program that suits your goals, imo.[/quote]

Would you care to point out what’s “awful” about it? I utilized the parameters set out in many articles written on here, experiences with different programs (and programs written specifically for me by trainers, including Craig Ballantyn (sp?)), etc. It may not be perfect, but “awful” is kind of a generic.

I hit every body part 3x/week, my volume range is within 24-36 reps per body part, consists mostly of big lifts and a variety of set/rep ranges. Like I said, I’m limited on my equipment so I do with what I got. I can’t perform circuits or super-sets. The only thing I can see that’s really bad is maybe the order in which I perform things…

The3Commandments · March 1, 2012, 11:39pm

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]The3Commandments wrote:
Someone should add (though I’m for all intents and purposes a beginner): your routine looks pretty awful. Get on an actual program that suits your goals, imo.[/quote]

Would you care to point out what’s “awful” about it? I utilized the parameters set out in many articles written on here, experiences with different programs (and programs written specifically for me by trainers, including Craig Ballantyn (sp?)), etc. It may not be perfect, but “awful” is kind of a generic.

I hit every body part 3x/week, my volume range is within 24-36 reps per body part, consists mostly of big lifts and a variety of set/rep ranges. Like I said, I’m limited on my equipment so I do with what I got. I can’t perform circuits or super-sets. The only thing I can see that’s really bad is maybe the order in which I perform things…[/quote]

Again, this is just imo, and I would certainly defer to more experienced people if they chime in on this front.

Your exercise selection is the primary problem. No offense, but it basically looks like a total beginner just threw darts at a dart board that listed exercises for each body part, threw them into three workouts, and called it a good program.

Just as an example, you’re only doing a squatting movement once a week. The other two days, your leg exercises are…1 legged squats, leg curls, and lunges. ??? Why? Is there a reason for this that I’m missing, or is it completely arbitrary?

As another example (this is more programming than exercise selection), I can’t really tell why it is that you have shrugs on M, bicep and tricep work on WF.

The whole thing just barely makes sense to me. It’s like some bastardized amalgamation of Starting Strength and [insert random Chad Waterbury program].

In short, the whole thing just looks like it was thrown together without any real consideration of the exercises being performed. Or at least if it was, I can’t tell what was going on with it. The most honest thing I could say about it is that if a friend came up to me, asked me what I thought of his training, and he showed me that routine, I would be like “Dude, just get on some sort of program instead of making up sh**.”

ZJStrope · March 2, 2012, 1:03am

[quote]The3Commandments wrote: