Phil Heath 7 Weeks Out Olympia 2011

[quote]heavythrower wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]heavythrower wrote:

seems like one of the biggest baddest bodybuilders out there right now relies on heavy pressing and pulling for his upper body size.

as a matter of fact, I remember hearing Ronnie Coleman say on one of his training videos posted on this website a long time ago saying something to the effect “I dont train biceps much at all, I get plenty big enough from all my back work”

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But that video was Ronnie Coleman when Ronnie Coleman was “Mr. Olympia competitor level Ronnie Coleman”.

Sure, when you’re at that level, you have true ‘imbalances’ that professional judges are going to detect and that you need to spend more time/energy fixing because your title and livelyhood depend on it. I never heard anyone ever say Ronnie’s arms were ‘lagging’.

Ronnie, Phil and others have universally superior arm genetics that no doubt they trained directly trained the shit out of for years. They are amongst the what, 20 or so people in the world who can just ‘cruise’ on their arm work.

Ronnie’s/Phil’s training universe is a much different one than “Mr. 16-in Smooth Arms”.

[Edit: DAMN, how did 4 posts get snuck in there before I finished this??]
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agreed, to a point. the other side of that coin reinforces what I have been saying though. big lifts, not so much(see what I did there? I did not say “at all”) on arms can give you a big solid mass and strength foundation that once you hit the next level and have to start the crazy diet and pharma the top guys have to do, then you put in your time with direct arm work.

I have watched a lot of Ronnie Coleman videos, and truth be told, his training reminds me a lot of the RAW old school powerlifters I idolized when I was young and just getting into the sport, like Pat Casey, Doug Young, etc.

that is, he (Coleman) squats, deadlifts, rows and presses (barbell and dumbbell) insanely heavy weights. [/quote]

I obviously missed this thread but whatever. There is a huge flaw in the logic here so I’ll bump it just to see my name on the side of the screen.

You are claiming that big lifts build a foundation and then juice and curls provide refinement for the biceps.

THAT IS THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE OF WHAT COLEMAN AND HEATH HAVE APPARENTLY DONE.

They have both obviously built up their arms with plenty of direct work and then, once their foundation of size was established, used little to no direct work except during pre contest.

You either have an indoctrinated bias so firmly rooted in your beliefs or you are trolling this topic.

It’s amazing that people can analyze a situation and perceive the exact opposite of the truth as fact.

And if you want to claim that I dont know that Phil did direct arm work earlier in his career, consider this. How in the world would he know that his arms grow too fast from doing direct work (the reason he doesnt do it in the offseason) if he didnt have the experience to base that opinion on.

The absurdity of your arguement is only overshadowed by the absurdity of the claim that regular people should model their training off the highly specialized routines of Coleman and Heath.

not sure why you I follow your logic. you obviously are a competitive BBer, so I am at a distinct disadvantage arguing this with you, as I have never competed in BBing.

I know personally 3-4 competitive bbers who have been on stage and won trophies.

two of them, are still competing, and train at the commercial gym I train at from time to time.

they both are in their mid 40’s, and both do body part splits, and do lots of work hitting arms delts, ect with lots of direct work.

both I consider friends, and both look great. trust me, i dream of having a body like theirs.

but both of them tell me when they were younger, they did heavy powerlifts as the foundation of their training.

now that they are older, and have joint and back health issues, they train with machines and dumbbells more.

one of them up until recently, did reps with 440lbs on the flat bench, and deadlifted 7 plates on a regular basis, but just recently,(last year or so) has has similar problems that I have had: ruptured triceps tendon, and bulging cervical and lumbar discs that are pressing or his spinal cord) and now he is primarily a hammer strength machine guy, and is very dedicated to his fasting steady state cardio. he looks great.

look at my most recent training log…guess who is training like a bodybuilder now? I have NO inherent bias towards BBers, I am trying to learn from bbers right now to I can continue to make progress in at least my appearance because I am so injured right now I am no longer strong or can train like I did when I was a competitive thrower/OLer/PLer.

I want to learn more about BBing, that is the main reason I have been on the bb forums more lately. I will admit it is fun to tweak X, because he has earned it with all the shit and abuse he has dished out over the years.

instead of insulting me saying my augments are absurd, i invite you to visit my log and give me some advice as what I can do now that I can no longer do the OL due to my serious physical problems. I would welcome constructive criticism and your help.

I will go to my grave defending my belief that the newbs should spend more time in the power rack squatting, pressing and pulling than on machines and doing direct body part splits, especially if they are not genetically gifted like many top level competitive BBers.

just my experience and opinion.

@X You are right I don’t know you or your back ground. I can only go by what I read here on this site. Apologies, carry on with your bad self.

@CountingBeans - I wasn’t defending HT, he can defend himself without my help. I was assed up about the way X choose to get the topic back on track. It has nothing to do with X personally. How it was handled may have more to do with why “serious BB’ing boards laugh at this place.” then with taking a topic off subject. Again apologies for taking this thread off topic.

I have competed in powerlifting for the last 5 years but have recently became interested in “looking good naked” again. Which is why I am reading this forum. No offense to anyone here or their related training preferences. At the end of the day we are all Brothers of Iron…

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Phil’s progress… 2003 to 2010…[/quote]

Yeah, from “hey, that dude is pretty big” to “holy fucking shit”

X, how about we go to the Oly and PL boards and start telling everyone how they’re doing it wrong and start posting bodybuilding stuff in their threads ?

[quote]DeltaOne wrote:
X, how about we go to the Oly and PL boards and start telling everyone how they’re doing it wrong and start posting bodybuilding stuff in their threads ?[/quote]

Why? Does Phil heath train that way?

Way to keep fanning the flames.

Phil looks awesome, however I think this is Cutler’s show to lose.

[quote]DeltaOne wrote:
X, how about we go to the Oly and PL boards and start telling everyone how they’re doing it wrong and start posting bodybuilding stuff in their threads ?[/quote]
we’d welcome it. Soviet elbow bends (curls) for elbow health!