Ok, I have a friend who is 6’4 and used to play D-End and Squatted 400lbs-500lbs or so. 2 years after high school, his knees are bad(were already bad due to football) and is considering training again.
Question- For a 6’4 person or anyone in the 6 feet range, should they squat Ass to Grass or just hit parallel.
2nd- Question, would Deadlifts be a good substitute for the squat and which stance would be better for him.
1.) I’m 6’4" and lanky and can go ATG. Actually when I was specifically focusing on oly squats they were higher than my powerlifting style.
2.) I would go with both. I know I tend to really pull “competition” style meaning that my back is really involved and hamstrings not as much compared to deep squats. My one lifting partner (who’s 6’8") is the same way. However, I lift with another guy (who’s 6’9") and he has no problem sitting down and getting his hams into the deadlift. I think it’s an individual matter.
I think tall people would probably find olympic squats tough because of the huge ROM, but it depends on their goals.
I don’t think anyone would say to totally replace squats with deads. Stance is personal preference, but tall people usually have good leverage and don’t have issues pulling conventional.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
My one lifting partner (who’s 6’8") is the same way. However, I lift with another guy (who’s 6’9") [/quote]
I would love to watch you guys work out. I reckon it must be a pretty bizarre sight to see a 6’4, 6’8 and 6’9 guy all working out together.
Do you get stared at a lot at the gym?
[quote]WolBarret wrote:
Ok, I have a friend who is 6’4 and used to play D-End and Squatted 400lbs-500lbs or so. 2 years after high school, his knees are bad(were already bad due to football)
[/quote]
Wow, your friend sure sounds familiar to me…
Anyway, I’m also 6’4", and can say that it isn’t just height that is an issue in your question, but exactly what makes up that height.
For instance, there are some guys who are 6’4" and can squat ATG no problem, typically because they have long torsos which make up a big chunk of their height.
I’m 6’4", and my torso is, oh, about 2 inches long, which means a TON of my height is located through my tibia and especially through a very long femur. That makes squatting ATG almost impossible.
I back squat just below parallel, but can go MUCH lower with front squats, which is a lift I very highly recommend for the taller athlete/trainee.
Anyone can squat ATG. If you have long limbs and a short torso, kick your stance out.
beef
Being 6’8" myself, I know the power of the “tall man gang.” The respect (i like to call it that anyway, could just be awkward gaping) that people give tall man gangs of 6’4", 6’8", and 6’9" is pretty substantial.
But about the original squatting question, I have a lot of trouble going A2G, and even slightly lower than parallel for that matter becuase my knees feel weak and sometimes hurt. You might wanna try to get a feeler for A2G for him by using much lower weight than he would normally, it’s hard enough for me stand up fully from an A2G stance without any weight, so I’d recommend getting him started by progressively increasing weight to evaluate the effectiveness or viability of A2G squats.
[quote]WolBarret wrote:
Ok, I have a friend who is 6’4 and used to play D-End and Squatted 400lbs-500lbs or so. 2 years after high school, his knees are bad(were already bad due to football) and is considering training again.
Question- For a 6’4 person or anyone in the 6 feet range, should they squat Ass to Grass or just hit parallel.
Can they do ATG squats weightless or with just a bar?
2nd- Question, would Deadlifts be a good substitute for the squat and which stance would be better for him.[/quote]
Not a substitute.
Changing the stance to sub for a correctable situation is like playing a hook in golf by turning your stance. Hopefully that’s the case.
Start from scratch.
I think height plays into squatting ATG at the very beginning. I’m not very tall, only 6’1" but have been squatting ATG for a couple of months now. I think the key for someone taller is that in the beginning they are going to have to put their pride aside and lift lighter. I think taller guys need to work on their hip flexibility in the beginning more so than shorter guys. Just my opinion and it might be wrong.
I’ve found that squatting ATG is better on my knees and naturally feels better overall. Like I said, start out with light weight and just groove the movement. Good luck.
Dre and Baure97 have made very good points.
I think that it depends on your goals to what depth you squat. Mix it up a little try to make gains all around (keep parallel or below).
[quote]Bauer97 wrote:
it isn’t just height that is an issue in your question, but exactly what makes up that height.
[/quote]
I have to agree. My height is about average (5-11) but my limbs are long relative to my height. The only problem is actually that my back will always round over as I tire or the weights get close to max.
I’ve had the opportunity to train with a local guy who is a godlike squatter(788@220lbs in the IPF) and he said it was simply due to build and it was something I’d just have to push through.
My stance is about shoulder width(not sure if considered “close”?) getting depth is just about staying tight continually pushing down. If I move my feet out I can’t get low enough no matter what. I compete in the USAPL and their rulebook states that proper depth is achieved when your “taint” makes contact with the floor.
[quote]WolBarret wrote:
Ok, I have a friend who is 6’4 and used to play D-End and Squatted 400lbs-500lbs or so. 2 years after high school, his knees are bad(were already bad due to football) and is considering training again.
Question- For a 6’4 person or anyone in the 6 feet range, should they squat Ass to Grass or just hit parallel.
2nd- Question, would Deadlifts be a good substitute for the squat and which stance would be better for him.[/quote]
I’m 6’4 and I have had my right meniscus repaired. I stopped squating for a while.
I went through a period where performed only Leg Press and Trapbar Deadlift my I rebuilt a lot of leg mass/hypertrophy…but my knees started to ache.
In the last month I added Hip Belt Squats to my routine, I built an 8" block that allows me to go ATG.
My knees feel great.
[quote]helga wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
My one lifting partner (who’s 6’8") is the same way. However, I lift with another guy (who’s 6’9")
I would love to watch you guys work out. I reckon it must be a pretty bizarre sight to see a 6’4, 6’8 and 6’9 guy all working out together.
Do you get stared at a lot at the gym?[/quote]
Yeah, dukebosox is the 6’8" guy I lift with. I think most people just figure we’re basketball players. We all play volleyball in college so they’re pretty close.
This pretty much nails it. (6’2")
Back squat are useless unless you compete with them or need to train for some specific sport. No non power lifters will ever have to pick something up behind them. Everyone reading this picks up things in front of them.
[quote]Dirty Tiger wrote:
(…) My knees feel great. [/quote]
I’m not a large person (180 cm), but I can say that squatting ATG pretty much fixed my fucked up knees, no shit.
I know it sound weird but before squatting deep I was listening to some gym losers telling my of the dangers of ATG. My knee pains are completely gone, after only a couple of “real” squat sessions!
ATG all the way…
I think the biggest problems for taller guys (I’m 6’2") are flexibility, balance, and ego.
Flexibility just takes a little work, it’s not easy for the longer limbed tall guys to fold up into a nice little package at the bottom of a squat, but it can be done. Warming up really light weight, even bodyweight, will help loosen up the legs and hips and increase flexibility.
Balance can be an issue because it’s really easy for taller guys to get the weight out away from their center of gravity (just a little bit of forward lean puts the bar way out in front of you, much more so than a shorter lifter with a shorter torso.). Good form is a must for tall guys.
Third is ego, others have already mentioned it but it’s really important to start off light. It’s hard, being a bigger guy you feel like a pussy grunting out squats with 1 plate on each side, but it’s worth it to build up the flexibility and form needed to squat heavy and deep.
The only other advice I have would be to have your buddy work some low box squats. That should help him avoid bouncing on his already fubar knees while helping promote good form and building strength.
good luck,
Jay
[quote]ScienceGuy wrote:
This pretty much nails it. (6’2")
Back squat are useless unless you compete with them or need to train for some specific sport. No non power lifters will ever have to pick something up behind them. Everyone reading this picks up things in front of them.
[/quote]
Oh, okay, so no one should ever squat, do any variant of the bench press, or… fuck it, I think everyone know’s this is a stupid statement.
Bauer pretty much hit it on the head.
Fix the issue if it’s possible. Do full squats as a knee-stabilizing/full range movement if he can after the fix (read - not for max weight, for perfect form and check the ego at the door). Do other exercises as desired.
-Dan
[quote]ScienceGuy wrote:
I’m 6’4", and my torso is, oh, about 2 inches long, which means a TON of my height is located through my tibia and especially through a very long femur. That makes squatting ATG almost impossible.
I back squat just below parallel, but can go MUCH lower with front squats, which is a lift I very highly recommend for the taller athlete/trainee.
This pretty much nails it. (6’2")
Back squat are useless unless you compete with them or need to train for some specific sport. No non power lifters will ever have to pick something up behind them. Everyone reading this picks up things in front of them.
[/quote]
Pretty much the same for me. Love DL’s, hate squats, esp. A2G for all the reasons mentioned in this thread.
6’4" 265…Ass to the grass, no belt, no wraps, no excuses. Lower the weight and start over. Get flexible and get strong. I’ve recently started using a camber bar which throws in a nice little twist to things. I’ve worked up to 315 X 5 with it.
Great, thanks for all the info guys.