Never looked that bad IMO. But have fun with recomp. I think you’ll be happy with what you’ve accumulated in terms if muscle.
[quote]jeremielemauvais wrote:
To be fair, he probably knows that if he lets them get “fat” they’ll have to hire him again to help them get lean 
a win-win situation j/k
[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
Look at what Shelby Starnes does with his guys in the off season. He lets people get pretty “fat.” He understands you don’t build muscle while staying pretty boy lean year round.[/quote]
[/quote]
Lol Shelby does an amazing job of helping ppl jump a ton of weight but still come in insanely peeled
IMO, to me it looks like a fairly successful bulk and cut cycle. Good job on the transformation. How’s the strength gain in that time frame?
The recomposition in that last picture is really impressive. You did that in the space of a little over a month? Just with DC and alternating surplus and deficit days? Any cardio? Fat burners?
Kudos to you.
[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
What makes this a “permabulk,” as opposed to someone who just did “a bulk?”
Permabulk implies someone who is ALWAYS bulking, and never cuts down. Those pictures doesn’t tell that story at all. If you mean to say you ate a bit more than you really needed to, then ok, but come on you didn’t get all that fat. Except for being inconsistent in the middle there, I don’t understand why you think the bulk went bad.[/quote]
This is how I feel. Holding some extra weight for a year or two and then leaning down to an acceptable BF% is not permabulking. IMO…the O.P. would be along way from the physique transformation we see here if he had attempted to make this progress without the extra body weight. Permabulkers never make it any further than the beginning stages of a deficit without creating an excuse the end the deficit and return to surplus calories. I also take exception with the idea thet LBM is lost during a deficit period; unless the diet and training are total shit, a lifter doesn’t loose LBM during a deficit. They may be very disappointed in the LBM the actually have once the fat is removed; but muscle that isn’t there at the end of a cut was imaginary muscle in the first place. Otherwise…great job O.P.!
[/quote]
Hear, hear! OP did what everyone does, and it works. Everybody on this board wants to discredit bulking these days, but that’s where the real strength gains are made and the muscle is built. Not everybody has stellar genetics for this shit and are able to stay lean all the time. And if you never push it, you’ll never know what you can do.
Gaining LBM = Gain strength while increasing bodyweight.
Keeping LBM on a diet = Keep strength while decreasing bodyweight.
Now, as you get close to either extreme in bodyfat things get a bit complicated with your hormones and so on, so you rein it in before it gets ridiculous. Look at what Shelby Starnes does with his guys in the off season. He lets people get pretty “fat.” He understands you don’t build muscle while staying pretty boy lean year round.[/quote]
Yeah, but the OP clearly got fatter than he needed to. If you don’t see it in the pics then your judgement is off.
Also, don’t underestimate the possibility of accumulating permanent physiological and psychological damages during a bulk gone too far.
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Yeah, but the OP clearly got fatter than he needed to. If you don’t see it in the pics then your judgement is off.
Also, don’t underestimate the possibility of accumulating permanent physiological and psychological damages during a bulk gone too far. [/quote]
Perhaps a bit smoother than I would recommend; but I think the best way to learn where that ‘sweet spot’ is; is trial and error.
Absent some underlying condition I don’t think the O.P. was in danger of physiological damage. I’ll admit that body-image issues are a mystery to me; I’m in my early fifties and didn’t grow up dealing with the cultural manure most of you guys did.
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Yeah, but the OP clearly got fatter than he needed to. If you don’t see it in the pics then your judgement is off.
Also, don’t underestimate the possibility of accumulating permanent physiological and psychological damages during a bulk gone too far. [/quote]
Perhaps a bit smoother than I would recommend; but I think the best way to learn where that ‘sweet spot’ is; is trial and error.
Absent some underlying condition I don’t think the O.P. was in danger of physiological damage. I’ll admit that body-image issues are a mystery to me; I’m in my early fifties and didn’t grow up dealing with the cultural manure most of you guys did. [/quote]
Well said once again.
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Yeah, but the OP clearly got fatter than he needed to. If you don’t see it in the pics then your judgement is off.
Also, don’t underestimate the possibility of accumulating permanent physiological and psychological damages during a bulk gone too far. [/quote]
Perhaps a bit smoother than I would recommend; but I think the best way to learn where that ‘sweet spot’ is; is trial and error.
Absent some underlying condition I don’t think the O.P. was in danger of physiological damage. I’ll admit that body-image issues are a mystery to me; I’m in my early fifties and didn’t grow up dealing with the cultural manure most of you guys did. [/quote]
Wasn’t referring to something as fancy as body image issues but rather disordered eating habits. I think many former “overbulkers” pick up shitty eating habits along the way that are not easy to break. I think a good albeit perhaps extreme example is Dave Tate. He apparently cannot stick to a moderate diet for a significant stretch of time. He yoyos between getting shredded to getting fat (when he is stressed out). I think his former get-big-at-all costs period has something to do with it. I personally see aspects of it in my own behavior.
As far as physiological “damage” goes, I was referring to increased number of fat cells, shitty insulin sensitivity and the like and not some sort of disease.
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Yeah, but the OP clearly got fatter than he needed to. If you don’t see it in the pics then your judgement is off.
Also, don’t underestimate the possibility of accumulating permanent physiological and psychological damages during a bulk gone too far. [/quote]
Perhaps a bit smoother than I would recommend; but I think the best way to learn where that ‘sweet spot’ is; is trial and error.
Absent some underlying condition I don’t think the O.P. was in danger of physiological damage. I’ll admit that body-image issues are a mystery to me; I’m in my early fifties and didn’t grow up dealing with the cultural manure most of you guys did. [/quote]
Wasn’t referring to something as fancy as body image issues but rather disordered eating habits. I think many former “overbulkers” pick up shitty eating habits along the way that are not easy to break. I think a good albeit perhaps extreme example is Dave Tate. He apparently cannot stick to a moderate diet for a significant stretch of time. He yoyos between getting shredded to getting fat (when he is stressed out). I think his former get-big-at-all costs period has something to do with it. I personally see aspects of it in my own behavior.
As far as physiological “damage” goes, I was referring to increased number of fat cells, shitty insulin sensitivity and the like and not some sort of disease. [/quote]
All issues worth consideration…
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Yeah, but the OP clearly got fatter than he needed to. If you don’t see it in the pics then your judgement is off.
Also, don’t underestimate the possibility of accumulating permanent physiological and psychological damages during a bulk gone too far. [/quote]
Perhaps a bit smoother than I would recommend; but I think the best way to learn where that ‘sweet spot’ is; is trial and error.
Absent some underlying condition I don’t think the O.P. was in danger of physiological damage. I’ll admit that body-image issues are a mystery to me; I’m in my early fifties and didn’t grow up dealing with the cultural manure most of you guys did. [/quote]
Wasn’t referring to something as fancy as body image issues but rather disordered eating habits. I think many former “overbulkers” pick up shitty eating habits along the way that are not easy to break. I think a good albeit perhaps extreme example is Dave Tate. He apparently cannot stick to a moderate diet for a significant stretch of time. He yoyos between getting shredded to getting fat (when he is stressed out). I think his former get-big-at-all costs period has something to do with it. I personally see aspects of it in my own behavior.
As far as physiological “damage” goes, I was referring to increased number of fat cells, shitty insulin sensitivity and the like and not some sort of disease. [/quote]
Insulin sensitivy comes back fast is very Labile and fat cell hyperplasia is hard to do and extreme over eating extreme obesity is needed this is not it
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Yeah, but the OP clearly got fatter than he needed to. If you don’t see it in the pics then your judgement is off.
Also, don’t underestimate the possibility of accumulating permanent physiological and psychological damages during a bulk gone too far. [/quote]
Perhaps a bit smoother than I would recommend; but I think the best way to learn where that ‘sweet spot’ is; is trial and error.
Absent some underlying condition I don’t think the O.P. was in danger of physiological damage. I’ll admit that body-image issues are a mystery to me; I’m in my early fifties and didn’t grow up dealing with the cultural manure most of you guys did. [/quote]
Wasn’t referring to something as fancy as body image issues but rather disordered eating habits. I think many former “overbulkers” pick up shitty eating habits along the way that are not easy to break. I think a good albeit perhaps extreme example is Dave Tate. He apparently cannot stick to a moderate diet for a significant stretch of time. He yoyos between getting shredded to getting fat (when he is stressed out). I think his former get-big-at-all costs period has something to do with it. I personally see aspects of it in my own behavior.
As far as physiological “damage” goes, I was referring to increased number of fat cells, shitty insulin sensitivity and the like and not some sort of disease. [/quote]
Insulin sensitivy comes back fast is very Labile and fat cell hyperplasia is hard to do and extreme over eating extreme obesity is needed this is not it [/quote]
Sure about the hyperplasia aspect? I thought research isn’t so clear about that one and some evidence exists that it does happen in the lower body for short-term weight gains in non-obese subjects.
I hope you are right, though.
BTK Killer…really?
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Yeah, but the OP clearly got fatter than he needed to. If you don’t see it in the pics then your judgement is off.
Also, don’t underestimate the possibility of accumulating permanent physiological and psychological damages during a bulk gone too far. [/quote]
Perhaps a bit smoother than I would recommend; but I think the best way to learn where that ‘sweet spot’ is; is trial and error.
Absent some underlying condition I don’t think the O.P. was in danger of physiological damage. I’ll admit that body-image issues are a mystery to me; I’m in my early fifties and didn’t grow up dealing with the cultural manure most of you guys did. [/quote]
Wasn’t referring to something as fancy as body image issues but rather disordered eating habits. I think many former “overbulkers” pick up shitty eating habits along the way that are not easy to break. I think a good albeit perhaps extreme example is Dave Tate. He apparently cannot stick to a moderate diet for a significant stretch of time. He yoyos between getting shredded to getting fat (when he is stressed out). I think his former get-big-at-all costs period has something to do with it. I personally see aspects of it in my own behavior.
As far as physiological “damage” goes, I was referring to increased number of fat cells, shitty insulin sensitivity and the like and not some sort of disease. [/quote]
Insulin sensitivy comes back fast is very Labile and fat cell hyperplasia is hard to do and extreme over eating extreme obesity is needed this is not it [/quote]
Sure about the hyperplasia aspect? I thought research isn’t so clear about that one and some evidence exists that it does happen in the lower body for short-term weight gains in non-obese subjects.
I hope you are right, though.[/quote]
I’ve never seen anything conclusive about lower bf and true hyperplasia not just hypertrophy
In the meanwhile I had some time to think about the input given in this thread.
-
The method about bulking up, readjusting your body setpoints and then recomping works. For example: I needed around 4000 kcal to go beyond 90KG, now I average around 2900 kcal for maintaince of bodyweight with difference in body composition.
-
I took it too far imho in means of:
a. my own comfort zone. When bulking up the way I did I also waved the hawt abs goodbye, that was a consious decision on my part. But in hindsight I didn’t feel that great with carrying >22% bodyfat with me.
b. progress hinderance. I could have saved me some time to cap the bulk around 90KG and then recomp instead of going up to 97KG. The fat gain in proportion to the muscle gain was too big.
But the point being: I have to work with the physique I know have which I’m proud of. I worked my butt of and will be working smarter and smarter with the lessons learnt.
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Never looked that bad IMO. But have fun with recomp. I think you’ll be happy with what you’ve accumulated in terms if muscle. [/quote]
I can handle a bit if the puffy face look, lol. =D
Yeah, I’m pretty happy with the accumulated muscle mass, and I’m wondering how it will look when I’m shredded. =)
[quote]Mizery wrote:
IMO, to me it looks like a fairly successful bulk and cut cycle. Good job on the transformation. How’s the strength gain in that time frame?[/quote]
Thanks man! =)
The strengts gains are awesome, especially with doggcrapp. Still hitting PR’s every training session in terms of reps or weight.
[quote]Pantherhare wrote:
The recomposition in that last picture is really impressive. You did that in the space of a little over a month? Just with DC and alternating surplus and deficit days? Any cardio? Fat burners?
Kudos to you.[/quote]
Yups, I did. What works for me is timing the most of my carbs around my training (pre, peri and post). On my off-days I’ll do some conditiong with kettlebell swings, sprints and biking.
Thanks man! =)
This is my progress up untill last week.
[photo]39957[/photo]
I’m happy with the way it’s going, slow and steady. =)
Any numbers you can throw up on your leg lifts: squat, DL, Hack Squat?
Or do you prefer the leg press to squatting movements (as I suspect)
[quote]Tatsu wrote:
This is my progress up untill last week.
[photo]39957[/photo]
I’m happy with the way it’s going, slow and steady. =)[/quote]
Great work man, I think staying relatively lean year round is the best bet for natties, obviously depending on goals. Work on improving your metabolic capacity so you can maintain on a higher caloric intake