Overtraining Is Real

WestCoast7 · August 22, 2009, 1:33am

[quote]Liv92 wrote:
Goodfellow wrote:
BradTGIF wrote:
I felt that I’d overtrained before, but I don’t think it can be simply pinned down to one element.

I had been at it for just under 6 months with no real break besides planned days off. 5x5 interspersed with weeks of EDT. The body got tired, #'s stagnated, it fucked with me mentally, food didn’t look, smell, or taste good, I slept like crap, I began to eat less yet tried to train the same way and frustration set in because I tired quicker than usual. I felt smaller… It was a downward spiral that was all encompassing.

I got this feeling of “what’s this all worth anyway?”

Then after a hard leg day where I had to push hard to finish the gameplan of the day, I got in my truck and started crying. Like a baby. I don’t do that ever.

So I called in sick the next day, took 5 days total off from training and eased back into it. Lesson learned.

I feel like this now.

Like not even halfway into my regular workouts I just have no fucking energy left.

I get soooo pissed off, it’s fucking depressing. I’m sitting here now just after my leg workout thinking ‘whats the god damn point?’

I honestly just can’t get my head around everything and I don’t know what to change to get shit going again. I really don’t want to take 5 days off.

I think im just going to failure too often on my lifts.

Take like 1 or 2 days off and go get yourself to a buffet and eat your heart out! [/quote]

I second the motion

Jason_B · August 22, 2009, 1:49am

I workout 4-5 times a week, am 37, 6-5, 270, never eat enough protein, have a crappy diet 99% of the time, don’t get enough rest and can honestly say I have never felt overtrained in my life…I think it is a bunch of crap…

Magarhe · August 24, 2009, 8:21am

[quote]MODOK wrote:
K2000 wrote:

Who in the fuck does 20 sets of squats to failure? Who does 10? And not 10 singles or doubles…10 sets of 8-15 reps TO NEAR FAILURE? Nobody in the world, thats who. Why are you bringing up ridiculous scenarios to justify “overtraining”?[/quote]

Plenty of people do that, what are you talking about?

daraz · August 24, 2009, 2:23pm

Here’s an idea: Find out what amount of work you can handle week in and week out without accumulating fatigue, and do no more or less than that.

MrAmerica · August 24, 2009, 2:28pm

This isn’t really a question of overtraining, but I have been racking my brain on this for weeks.

I played college football for 3 years before blowing out my ACL, only then did I really get into lifting and nutrition, quite the paradox right? Anyway, As of right now, I am 5-10/11, and I weigh 172, I take in 300g pro, 250carb 85fat, about 3000cals/day. I am pretty much just in maintenance mode because I started a teaching job.

Schedule is as follows:

Monday AM: Chest
teach…
Monday PM: Bis

Tuesday AM: Tris
teach…
Tuesday PM: Back

Wednesday AM: Shoulders
teach…
Wednesday PM: Legs

Thursday AM: Bis
teach.
Thursday PM: Chest

Friday AM: Back
teach.
Friday PM: Tris

Saturday AM: Legs/Shoulders

During the week I usually swim once, play basketball twice, and play 1 day of raquetball as well…

I shoot for around 15 sets per muscle group per lift…I rotate through a 4 week cycle which gives me 4 heavy lifts, 2 medium, 2 light, per muscle group throughout a month…

For what I am doing right now, is 4-5 exercises and about 15 sets (reps at 6,8,10,12 depending on what week it is) , too much???

I have been scouring the forums and old articles to find out if people thought 15 sets for a muscle group was too much in one day…with 2 lifts per muscle each week, i end up doing about 30 sets per muscle.

Feel free to tell me how silly I am for what I do, but through my research, reading, findings, and failures, this is what I have come up with…

MrAmerica · August 24, 2009, 2:30pm

oh, and say I am doing 15sh sets for the Biceps on Monday AM workout, it usually takes about 30-35 minutes…I don’t like to rest very long and I get a much better pump…

am I doing too many sets per muscle group in a day? in a week?

need some answers and input from the T-Nation faithful.

Aggro · August 24, 2009, 2:45pm

[quote]Jason B wrote:
I workout 4-5 times a week, am 37, 6-5, 270, never eat enough protein, have a crappy diet 99% of the time, don’t get enough rest and can honestly say I have never felt overtrained in my life…I think it is a bunch of crap…[/quote]

Me to a T except I’m 36. Like has been said, there’s under eating, and under sleeping, but not over training.

on_edge · August 24, 2009, 3:07pm

[quote]MODOK wrote:
K2000 wrote:
The idea that there’s no such thing as overtraining is fricking ludicrous. OF COURSE there is.

The idea that people are just under-eating or undersleeping, is also ludicrous. So, all you have to do is eat ungodly amounts of proper food/sups, and sleep 16 hours a day, and you’ll be able to withstand any workout? If that was true, guys would be benching 1000 pounds and squatting 2000 pounds. Guys wouldn’t need to take steroids, just eat more and sleep more!

Then there’s the idea that you can’t overtrain, if you are using a properly designed training program. Ummm, duh. That’s the whole point of a properly designed program. A properly designed program won’t have excessive volume per day, or excessive frequency per week (the exception would be specific intentional overtraining on a limited basis, for a rebound effect). How much is too much frequency, or too much volume? It’s different for everybody, based on experience and other factors. A beginner will overtrain at a different point than an advanced bodybuilder.

I was disappointed to read TB saying that it’s impossible to overtrain on squats and deadlifts. IMO because those are two of the most challenging (and thus effective) movements, that’s exactly why it’s probably EASIER to overtrain on squats and deadlifts. Overtraining is placing a workload on the body that it can’t recuperate from, in time to maintain training frequency/progress. TB should have said “wrist curls” not squats… I might actually believe that. Most guys who do 20 truly hard sets of squats are going to have trouble recuperating. I personally can’t do 10 hard sets of squats (I’m 48 years old). People will overtrain at different points but to say there’s no such thing is bullshit. It’s just something that sounds bad ass, but without adding a bunch of qualifying statements, it’s just totally false.

Who in the fuck does 20 sets of squats to failure? Who does 10? And not 10 singles or doubles…10 sets of 8-15 reps TO NEAR FAILURE? Nobody in the world, thats who. Why are you bringing up ridiculous scenarios to justify “overtraining”?[/quote]

I think he was stating an extreme example that no one could argue with. If he had said 5 max effort sets some would agree it’s overtraining while others would not. Twenty sets, only an idiot would argue with that. The post K2000 made is by far the best post on this topic.

waylanderxx · August 24, 2009, 4:01pm

[quote]Magarhe wrote:
MODOK wrote:
K2000 wrote:

Who in the fuck does 20 sets of squats to failure? Who does 10? And not 10 singles or doubles…10 sets of 8-15 reps TO NEAR FAILURE? Nobody in the world, thats who. Why are you bringing up ridiculous scenarios to justify “overtraining”?

Plenty of people do that, what are you talking about?[/quote]

lol I’m with Modok on this one, no one squats with that much volume.

MrAmerica · August 24, 2009, 4:58pm

nobody wants to help me?

on_edge · August 24, 2009, 7:51pm

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
Magarhe wrote:
MODOK wrote:
K2000 wrote:

Who in the fuck does 20 sets of squats to failure? Who does 10? And not 10 singles or doubles…10 sets of 8-15 reps TO NEAR FAILURE? Nobody in the world, thats who. Why are you bringing up ridiculous scenarios to justify “overtraining”?

Plenty of people do that, what are you talking about?

lol I’m with Modok on this one, no one squats with that much volume.[/quote]

Therefore, you concede there is a volume that is too much and make the case that over-training does exist. Thank you.

on_edge · August 25, 2009, 3:05pm

No, it’s not silly. You are failing to see the compulsiveness in some people and the ignorant determination of others. It’s not all that rare. The summer when I was 19 I trained (weights) 3 hours a day six days a week. I believed the more you did and the harder you worked the better the results would be. I’m sure I’m not the only one who’s ever had that belief and I now know that that was over-training and the best nutrition and all the sleep I could get wouldn’t have changed that.

There are a lot of young people reading this site. They look up to you guys and from reading what you say, many will be left with the idea they can train as much and as hard as they can possibly push themselves too, and all they have to do is sleep more and eat more and it will be fine. That’s simply not true.

Professor_X · August 25, 2009, 3:26pm

[quote]on edge wrote:
No, it’s not silly. You are failing to see the compulsiveness in some people and the ignorant determination of others. It’s not all that rare. The summer when I was 19 I trained (weights) 3 hours a day six days a week. I believed the more you did and the harder you worked the better the results would be. I’m sure I’m not the only one who’s ever had that belief and I now know that that was over-training and the best nutrition and all the sleep I could get wouldn’t have changed that.

There are a lot of young people reading this site. They look up to you guys and from reading what you say, many will be left with the idea they can train as much and as hard as they can possibly push themselves too, and all they have to do is sleep more and eat more and it will be fine. That’s simply not true.[/quote]

This is getting retarded. If someone could actually do that many sets of squats TO FAILURE without passing out, then they must have better genetics than nearly all of us.

Yes, overtraining may exist if you are dumb enough to think that you can work forever without the fuel to support it.

So;
Mowing all of the yards in Texas in one day…could equal “overtraining”.

Pushing 34,542 cars down the street for a mile each all in one day…just might lead to some type of “overtraining”.

Doing squats with over 400lbs for 6,000 sets of 35 reps each all in one session…just might lead to some “overtraining”.

And being dumb enough to use some extreme example that no human can perform regularly to define overtraining…is also overtraining.

Bottom line, any newb this concerned about overtraining with absolutely no concept of listening to their own body…will likely be a newb for a very long time.

This activity is not for the “gym retarded”.

on_edge · August 25, 2009, 3:35pm

[quote]Professor X wrote:
on edge wrote:
No, it’s not silly. You are failing to see the compulsiveness in some people and the ignorant determination of others. It’s not all that rare. The summer when I was 19 I trained (weights) 3 hours a day six days a week. I believed the more you did and the harder you worked the better the results would be. I’m sure I’m not the only one who’s ever had that belief and I now know that that was over-training and the best nutrition and all the sleep I could get wouldn’t have changed that.