Overhead Press- I'm Seeing the Light

Training Bodybuilding
141

In not going to argue on this its a waste of time. But there are reasons why I dont respect Prof x’s and many others advice here on the site.

  1. They are arrogant pricks that think this is their site, and their way is the only way, and anyone that does differently is destroying bodybuilding.

  2. There is more than one way to “skin a cat” Seated presses may be better for size, and standing presses may be better for size. The point is they both work. You are no more of a bodybuilder or not because you do it one way.

  3. Obviously anyone in the BODYBUILDING FORUM is interested in building muscle. They may not want to be a heavyweight juiced bodybuilder, or even compete. That is up to them.

  4. Someone’s individual results do not mean SHIT at all. There are way too many individual variables, not the least of which are genetics and steroids. I dont care if Ronnie Coleman were in here tellling me that seated presses are better 100%. This doesn’t prove anything, as being the biggest guy does not prove that you know the most.

The list goes on and on… But im sure others like me are tired of the attitude of the more “mature” and “alpha” members.

142

[quote]dankid wrote:
In not going to argue on this its a waste of time. But there are reasons why I dont respect Prof x’s and many others advice here on the site.

  1. They are arrogant pricks that think this is their site, and their way is the only way, and anyone that does differently is destroying bodybuilding.

  2. There is more than one way to “skin a cat” Seated presses may be better for size, and standing presses may be better for size. The point is they both work. You are no more of a bodybuilder or not because you do it one way.

  3. Obviously anyone in the BODYBUILDING FORUM is interested in building muscle. They may not want to be a heavyweight juiced bodybuilder, or even compete. That is up to them.

  4. Someone’s individual results do not mean SHIT at all. There are way too many individual variables, not the least of which are genetics and steroids. I dont care if Ronnie Coleman were in here tellling me that seated presses are better 100%. This doesn’t prove anything, as being the biggest guy does not prove that you know the most.

The list goes on and on… But im sure others like me are tired of the attitude of the more “mature” and “alpha” members.[/quote]

X definitely gets his point across differently than C_C, MODOK, Stu, Fatty, etc. do, but I disagree with your last point. I’d be much more inclined to listen to the advice of a big guy than a scrawny guy.

And really with #3? This is the mainstream media mindset. Building muscle and getting big does not = juicing.

One thing you mentioned that I agree with is that we did get off topic, and the OP’s question could have been answered many many posts ago.

143

Personally I agree with X when he says that sitting OH press is a better mass builder, but who the fuck asked him that in the first place?

If someone asks for advice on how to structure a full body routine, he goes on a posting spree about how splits are the only option if you’re serious blah blah blah instead of remaining on topic and helping the op with his problem. Yeah we heard you in the first 5 000 posts dude.

He’s always pulling this shit.

He just likes to skip the topic of a thread so he can push his dogmatic and short sided view on training and what a person’s goal should be.

People like to throw around the word “troll” so much, if I’d use that word as loosely as some I would have to include the professor in that category.

To me he ain’t better than the TBT retards who have got nothing to say but “split sucks” like they know shit.

144

Personally I agree with X when he says that sitting OH press is a better mass builder, but who the fuck asked him that in the first place?

If someone asks for advice on how to structure a full body routine, he goes on a posting spree about how splits are the only option if you’re serious blah blah blah instead of remaining on topic and helping the op with his problem. Yeah we heard you in the first 5 000 posts dude.

He’s always pulling this shit.

He just likes to skip the topic of a thread so he can push his dogmatic and short sided view on training and what a person’s goal should be.

People like to throw around the word “troll” so much, if I’d use that word as loosely as some I would have to include the professor in that category.

To me he ain’t better than the TBT retards who have got nothing to say but “split sucks” like they know shit.

145

[quote]jo3 wrote:

One thing you mentioned that I agree with is that we did get off topic, and the OP’s question could have been answered many many posts ago.[/quote]

This is very true haha.

146

[quote]hungry4more wrote:

[quote]jo3 wrote:

One thing you mentioned that I agree with is that we did get off topic, and the OP’s question could have been answered many many posts ago.[/quote]

This is very true haha. [/quote]

err… it was. first page, about 4 times.

147

Then again, would it be T-Nation if we didn’t discuss everything else remotely related?

148

I usually prefer standing shoulder presses for a few reasons, one of them being that I often like to finish with a few push presses. I do seated presses as well but less often.

That being said, if sitting down solves the problem, why not just sit down? For fuck sake people, how complicated do we really need to do this?

149

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]uklifts wrote:

[quote]The other Rob wrote:

[quote]uklifts wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

No, it is still a shoulder press.

Most people will tell you that BTN shoulder presses are KING for building size. They are. They are also fairly risky as MANY of the big guys I have known (and many competitors) end up with severe shoulder issues as a result of this movement after doing them over several years.

I had a big guy tell me this when I first started. Because of that, I heavily relied on the smith machine when I did these and NEVER allowed the bar to come much past my ears when lowering it due to the risk of injury. As a result, I have really big shoulders and any shoulder issues I have had to date have been fairly mild and temporary.

I like dumbbell presses as well as many machines…so the point is, you have many options and always using a free barbell for this may not always provide you with optimal results.

[/quote]

Back on page 1 this was interesting. Ive not heard about just down to the ears before, Usually guys tell me about under the chin. I’ll try that next time.

Out of interest how do you feel about or adjust incline/flat/decline benchs in the smith? i’ve found them really painful on the shoulder so i stopped doing them and went back to free bar benchs. At the same time i like the setup and safety aspect of the smith. Just wondered about your thoughts on this if you have time?[/quote]

How do you get the bar under your chin in a BTN shoulder press? Now THAT would be full rom.[/quote]

lol! ive reread his post now, didnt realise he was still on about BTN presses, thought he was on about presses in front by that paragraph, i see he wasnt now…

still, i wouldnt mind knowing about any different bench approach[/quote]

Ok, regular bench (incline, decline, flat) can be a problem on the smith depending on how you set up and execute the lift… Not everybody likes to bench with elbows flared all the way and the bar traveling straight up/down (pec tear and bicep tendon/shoulder injury danger).

If you bench with semi tucked elbows and an inverted J -style barpath, forget about benching in the smith and use it for tricep press variations instead (where you press towards your feet as well as up in the smith), as well as high incline shoulder presses (seat one notch below vertical or so, maybe two… Depends on what you prefer) from the chin or eye level.

If you still want to go for benching in the smith, retract shoulder blades as normal etc, but you’ll have to keep your elbows flared and touch fairly high compared to a regular bench (or don’t touch at all…).

[/quote]

Thanks C_C that helps, I do press the way you described there, tucked and J. i’ll have to experiment in setup then, i mostly feel a sharp pain in my shoulders with smith benching. I’m also going to try that DC style underhand grip incline, that sounds good too.

150

[quote]uklifts wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]uklifts wrote:

[quote]The other Rob wrote:

[quote]uklifts wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

No, it is still a shoulder press.

Most people will tell you that BTN shoulder presses are KING for building size. They are. They are also fairly risky as MANY of the big guys I have known (and many competitors) end up with severe shoulder issues as a result of this movement after doing them over several years.

I had a big guy tell me this when I first started. Because of that, I heavily relied on the smith machine when I did these and NEVER allowed the bar to come much past my ears when lowering it due to the risk of injury. As a result, I have really big shoulders and any shoulder issues I have had to date have been fairly mild and temporary.

I like dumbbell presses as well as many machines…so the point is, you have many options and always using a free barbell for this may not always provide you with optimal results.

[/quote]

Back on page 1 this was interesting. Ive not heard about just down to the ears before, Usually guys tell me about under the chin. I’ll try that next time.

Out of interest how do you feel about or adjust incline/flat/decline benchs in the smith? i’ve found them really painful on the shoulder so i stopped doing them and went back to free bar benchs. At the same time i like the setup and safety aspect of the smith. Just wondered about your thoughts on this if you have time?[/quote]

How do you get the bar under your chin in a BTN shoulder press? Now THAT would be full rom.[/quote]

lol! ive reread his post now, didnt realise he was still on about BTN presses, thought he was on about presses in front by that paragraph, i see he wasnt now…

still, i wouldnt mind knowing about any different bench approach[/quote]

Ok, regular bench (incline, decline, flat) can be a problem on the smith depending on how you set up and execute the lift… Not everybody likes to bench with elbows flared all the way and the bar traveling straight up/down (pec tear and bicep tendon/shoulder injury danger).

If you bench with semi tucked elbows and an inverted J -style barpath, forget about benching in the smith and use it for tricep press variations instead (where you press towards your feet as well as up in the smith), as well as high incline shoulder presses (seat one notch below vertical or so, maybe two… Depends on what you prefer) from the chin or eye level.

If you still want to go for benching in the smith, retract shoulder blades as normal etc, but you’ll have to keep your elbows flared and touch fairly high compared to a regular bench (or don’t touch at all…).

[/quote]

Thanks C_C that helps, I do press the way you described there, tucked and J. i’ll have to experiment in setup then, i mostly feel a sharp pain in my shoulders with smith benching. I’m also going to try that DC style underhand grip incline, that sounds good too.[/quote]

I used to do INCLINES in the smith machine, but I never did flat presses in one for amy length of time worth worrying about. It just didn’t feel right. I started on the barbell exclusively and then moved to dumbbells and the smith machine. I only use so many hammer strength machines now because it allows me to use weights that I would be forced to need a spotter for if I tried using free weights…and those are harder and harder to come by the farther you move up the strength ladder.

If a movement is literally causing you pain, stop, correct your form or find a new movement.

151

[quote]snewbold wrote:

(1) is that some people lift weights religiously. . . to look good naked. His physique is not the ideal physique that women want to fuck. [/quote]

What are you fucking 12? News flash dip shit, some people have bigger goals than “looking good for tha ladies.” Oh and for those of us who aren’t in high school anymore, different women like different things… Fuck this annoys the shit out of me.

Grow the fuck up. I’m so sick of this pathetic bullshit excuse. If you don’t want to be that large fine, but someone, and you aren’t the only one, who truly didn’t want to be large wouldn’t take the time to put down someone who was. You really are doing it out of jealousy.

So pull your fucking skirt down and STFU. We see right through your bullshit.

quote Most of us train drug free. I don’t believe he is, and therefore his advice needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
[/quote]

You are an ignoramus. Way to drag his name through the mud to make yourself feel better you weak little shit. I almost was fired because of jealous little fucks like you talking this same shit around my office. Do you look like you lift with a suit on? No that’s right, you only look like you lift naked… Well I do look like I lift fully clothed, and because of fat jealous cock smugglers like you I was sat down and questioned. AAS are illegal dumbfuck, but keep throwing around accusations on a public forum.

Fuck you should be required to post a picture in order to post in this section. It would shut a lot of fuckers up real quick.

Oh an in case you didn’t notice, you are replying to a racist troll, who it STILL IS AN EMBARRASSMENT TO THIS SITE that his account is still active.

152

This thread is otherwise an epic shit show… Carry on.

153

Oh, and PS:

This thread is about as lame as you can get. There are far too many people here who wouldn’t be physically more developed than the average 9th grader who spend way too much time trying to act like people who have made more progress than them are clueless.

Is it jealousy?

If not, then keep my name out of your mouths unless contributing to the topic of discussion.

It is always the ones with no pictures who seem to try to be the loudest.

154

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I used to do INCLINES in the smith machine, but I never did flat presses in one for amy length of time worth worrying about. It just didn’t feel right. I started on the barbell exclusively and then moved to dumbbells and the smith machine. I only use so many hammer strength machines now because it allows me to use weights that I would be forced to need a spotter for if I tried using free weights…and those are harder and harder to come by the farther you move up the strength ladder.

If a movement is literally causing you pain, stop, correct your form or find a new movement.[/quote]

Were they shallow or high inclines out of interest? I did find declines more comfortable as the psuh towards the feet felt more natural. Limited motion seated overheads seem ok too. Like you said after benching caused me pain even from the first time of trying i gave it a couple of chances then ditched it. Pity i dont have access to a HS machine as i suffer from a lack of spotters for free weights too. Not from the huge weight aspect though, just people being available.

155

[quote]Professor X wrote:
WHY THE FUCK ARE WE DISCUSSING POWERLIFTING IN A BODYBUILDING FORUM?![/quote]
ahaha

this seems to be the norm around here.

156

[quote]uklifts wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I used to do INCLINES in the smith machine, but I never did flat presses in one for amy length of time worth worrying about. It just didn’t feel right. I started on the barbell exclusively and then moved to dumbbells and the smith machine. I only use so many hammer strength machines now because it allows me to use weights that I would be forced to need a spotter for if I tried using free weights…and those are harder and harder to come by the farther you move up the strength ladder.

If a movement is literally causing you pain, stop, correct your form or find a new movement.[/quote]

Were they shallow or high inclines out of interest? I did find declines more comfortable as the psuh towards the feet felt more natural. Limited motion seated overheads seem ok too. Like you said after benching caused me pain even from the first time of trying i gave it a couple of chances then ditched it. Pity i dont have access to a HS machine as i suffer from a lack of spotters for free weights too. Not from the huge weight aspect though, just people being available.[/quote]

The incline is always set at 45 degrees or less…with LESS being better for development, I’ve found. If you can get one to go back to about 30-35 degrees, I consider that to be about perfect.

Once you sit up higher than that, your front delts are involved much more. That was one of the reasons I started working my lateral delts so hard…because after years of doing inclines at 45 degrees or a little higher, my front delst were standing out more than anything else.

157

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]uklifts wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I used to do INCLINES in the smith machine, but I never did flat presses in one for amy length of time worth worrying about. It just didn’t feel right. I started on the barbell exclusively and then moved to dumbbells and the smith machine. I only use so many hammer strength machines now because it allows me to use weights that I would be forced to need a spotter for if I tried using free weights…and those are harder and harder to come by the farther you move up the strength ladder.

If a movement is literally causing you pain, stop, correct your form or find a new movement.[/quote]

Were they shallow or high inclines out of interest? I did find declines more comfortable as the psuh towards the feet felt more natural. Limited motion seated overheads seem ok too. Like you said after benching caused me pain even from the first time of trying i gave it a couple of chances then ditched it. Pity i dont have access to a HS machine as i suffer from a lack of spotters for free weights too. Not from the huge weight aspect though, just people being available.[/quote]

The incline is always set at 45 degrees or less…with LESS being better for development, I’ve found. If you can get one to go back to about 30-35 degrees, I consider that to be about perfect.

Once you sit up higher than that, your front delts are involved much more. That was one of the reasons I started working my lateral delts so hard…because after years of doing inclines at 45 degrees or a little higher, my front delst were standing out more than anything else.[/quote]

Thanks, i’ve been been doing DB presses on the first notch for a while now. seems to be probably 15-25 degrees, next notch is 45. i’ll just stay on the low one then. Appreciate the answer

158

Lol i love how every other thread becomes a PX witch hunt at one point. That and we always seem to fly off to some tangent of the originally posted question.

Facts are facts. If you’re on a bodybuilding forum and mention any form of the Phrase “not everyone wants to be as big as a bodybuilder” or “maybe he’s not looking for that kind of size,” you’re an idiot.

When i see successful, professional bodybuilders doing a particular exercise a particular way and it is a trend through decades of bodybuilding, then yes, im doing it that way. I kinda figured that as a no brainer though.

159

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Oh an in case you didn’t notice, you are replying to a racist troll, who it STILL IS AN EMBARRASSMENT TO THIS SITE that his account is still active. [/quote]

Beanies, you have no idea what a troll is,so it seems, and like I said the professor fits that category much more than I do. This thread wasn’t about standing vs seated OH presses, was it?

At least not until the professor decided to take a minute of his valuable time to chime in with his vast knowledge and experience. [/sarcasm]

And kid, you have no idea about what racism feels like until you suffer it in your skin like I did.
You just don’t know the difference between racism and being politically incorrect.

That’s living in America, I guess.

160

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]snewbold wrote:

(1) is that some people lift weights religiously. . . to look good naked. His physique is not the ideal physique that women want to fuck. [/quote]

What are you fucking 12? News flash dip shit, some people have bigger goals than “looking good for tha ladies.” Oh and for those of us who aren’t in high school anymore, different women like different things… Fuck this annoys the shit out of me.

Grow the fuck up. I’m so sick of this pathetic bullshit excuse. If you don’t want to be that large fine, but someone, and you aren’t the only one, who truly didn’t want to be large wouldn’t take the time to put down someone who was. You really are doing it out of jealousy.

So pull your fucking skirt down and STFU. We see right through your bullshit.

quote Most of us train drug free. I don’t believe he is, and therefore his advice needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
[/quote]

You are an ignoramus. Way to drag his name through the mud to make yourself feel better you weak little shit. I almost was fired because of jealous little fucks like you talking this same shit around my office. Do you look like you lift with a suit on? No that’s right, you only look like you lift naked… Well I do look like I lift fully clothed, and because of fat jealous cock smugglers like you I was sat down and questioned. AAS are illegal dumbfuck, but keep throwing around accusations on a public forum.

Fuck you should be required to post a picture in order to post in this section. It would shut a lot of fuckers up real quick.

Oh an in case you didn’t notice, you are replying to a racist troll, who it STILL IS AN EMBARRASSMENT TO THIS SITE that his account is still active. [/quote]

riiiight riiiight jealousy. easy there message board tough guy. Everyone who disagrees with X is jealous, or isn’t credible unless they post a pic, or yada yada. You guys have your canned responses down pretty good.

I’m sure Prof. X, who spends 12 hours per day posting on this site putting people down, is thicked skin enough to handle it.

My two points are on solid ground and I would guess most people agree with them.

Also, for drug free weight lifters, there is something to be said for standing up military press.

It’s no secret that there’s at least somewhat of a metabolic and hormonal advantage to it (as there is generally with more complex lifts) compared to the sitting down press.

For those of us whose testes can still produce its own testorone this should at least be considered.

But yes, the sitting down press will produce more mass. . . how dare the OP begin such an ignorant thread.