I believe that was why he used the adjective “pseudo” X…he doesn’t actually consider them BBers.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Deorum wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Goodness…there is a reason most of the big guys you see sit the fuck down when they do overhead presses.
Let me guess…it is more “functional” to stand up and do them.
[/quote]
Most of the big guys I’ve seen have done them behind the neck out of a squat rack…
And while we’re observing others, most of the people I have seen in various gyms doing them seated have had the pseudo-bodybuilder appearance. Large chest, large arms, undeveloped all elsewhere.
Personally I wouldn’t base my routine solely on what I observe the gym rats doing, just interesting since you brought that up.[/quote]
?
Someone with “large arms, large chest and undeveloped all elsewhere” is a bodybuilder to you?
That sentence really made sense when you wrote it?
You haven;t seen someone serious about this if that is what you’ve observed. In fact, I now doubt how big any of the people you’ve observed are.
Why do some of you group weekend warriors who don’t train back and legs in with BODYBUILDING?
Mind explaining this?[/quote]
Is this post a joke? Let me reiterate something for you. PSEUDO-bodybuilder. If need be ill crack out the Websters for you as well. While we’re discussing what I consider a bodybuilder let me throw something else out. I don’t consider someone who has no plans of ever dieting down to competition shape and stepping on a fucking stage a bodybuilder. THAT is the weekend warrior. In the same subject I don’t consider anyone who hasn’t stepped foot in a powerlifting meet to be a “powerlifter”.
“MMA fighter” deserves to be thrown in there as well. You’re not an “MMA fighter” - like everybody and their father claims to be - until you actually fight in a fucking Mixed Martial Arts match. Okay, I studied medicine for a semester in college, it doesn’t make me a fucking doctor.
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
I believe that was why he used the adjective “pseudo” X…he doesn’t actually consider them BBers. [/quote]
Then mind explaining why he even brought it up here?
Idrise ward-el IFBB pro trains shoulders seated. The ONLY reason I am mentioning him specifically is because he is one of the people who gave me advice when I was getting serious about this. he was the type of person I observed and there were many others on that level. I get the feeling that “big” to some of these people is the half assed weekend warrior who may weigh 200-220lbs but who rarely trains legs and is sitting because they are taking it easy.
I doubt most here are coming in contact with NPC competitors unless they live in a major city like New York, Miami, Houston, or LA.
That means their perspective might be skewed as well because again, why mention some half assed weekend warrior in this discussion AT ALL?
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]knee-gro wrote:
That ain’t powerlifting. Unless OH Presses is now one of the big 3.
[/quote]
Uh, yes it is…he’s doing it as part of PL training, and he is a PLer. That’s like saying lifting weights to get bigger isn’t bodybuilding, since when you lift you’re not on a stage getting judged. [/quote]
Yeah yeah I only noticed the marius one.
No need to get fresh with me.
My bad, I guess.
[quote]Deorum wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Deorum wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Goodness…there is a reason most of the big guys you see sit the fuck down when they do overhead presses.
Let me guess…it is more “functional” to stand up and do them.
[/quote]
Most of the big guys I’ve seen have done them behind the neck out of a squat rack…
And while we’re observing others, most of the people I have seen in various gyms doing them seated have had the pseudo-bodybuilder appearance. Large chest, large arms, undeveloped all elsewhere.
Personally I wouldn’t base my routine solely on what I observe the gym rats doing, just interesting since you brought that up.[/quote]
?
Someone with “large arms, large chest and undeveloped all elsewhere” is a bodybuilder to you?
That sentence really made sense when you wrote it?
You haven;t seen someone serious about this if that is what you’ve observed. In fact, I now doubt how big any of the people you’ve observed are.
Why do some of you group weekend warriors who don’t train back and legs in with BODYBUILDING?
Mind explaining this?[/quote]
Is this post a joke? Let me reiterate something for you. PSEUDO-bodybuilder. If need be ill crack out the Websters for you as well. While we’re discussing what I consider a bodybuilder let me throw something else out. I don’t consider someone who has no plans of ever dieting down to competition shape and stepping on a fucking stage a bodybuilder. THAT is the weekend warrior. In the same subject I don’t consider anyone who hasn’t stepped foot in a powerlifting meet to be a “powerlifter”.
[/quote]
Good for you. I don’t intend to fucking argue whether someone who weighs over 260lbs at average height and has arms over 20" is a bodybuilder. I figured most people without their heads up their ass could tell the difference between someone who was truly serious about this and someone who just “lifts weights”…but apparently not.
My bad.
[quote]Deorum wrote:
I don’t consider someone who has no plans of ever dieting down to competition shape and stepping on a fucking stage a bodybuilder. THAT is the weekend warrior. In the same subject I don’t consider anyone who hasn’t stepped foot in a powerlifting meet to be a “powerlifter”.
[/quote]
Easy there buddy, I don’t believe X has ever actually called himself a bodybuilder, though I MAY be wrong on that point.
The man probably just didn’t notice one word, that’s no reason to be a complete asshole.
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]Deorum wrote:
I don’t consider someone who has no plans of ever dieting down to competition shape and stepping on a fucking stage a bodybuilder. THAT is the weekend warrior. In the same subject I don’t consider anyone who hasn’t stepped foot in a powerlifting meet to be a “powerlifter”.
[/quote]
Easy there buddy, I don’t believe X has ever actually called himself a bodybuilder, though I MAY be wrong on that point.
The man probably just didn’t notice one word, that’s no reason to be a complete asshole. [/quote]
Not aimed at anyone. Just my ranting on the subject. And the asshole tends to come out of me when talking to someone with such a constant condescending and assuming nature.
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]Deorum wrote:
I don’t consider someone who has no plans of ever dieting down to competition shape and stepping on a fucking stage a bodybuilder. THAT is the weekend warrior. In the same subject I don’t consider anyone who hasn’t stepped foot in a powerlifting meet to be a “powerlifter”.
[/quote]
Easy there buddy, I don’t believe X has ever actually called himself a bodybuilder, though I MAY be wrong on that point.
The man probably just didn’t notice one word, that’s no reason to be a complete asshole. [/quote]
I use the word now because people use the word on me and I do plan on getting into the shape to compete. However, that is besides the point. My size is generally the topic of conversation when people first meet me. I tend to think that actually means something more than the guy who simply “works out” 3 x a week and no one can tell by looking at him.
But again, people can believe what they want and I sure as hell don’t plan on debating this further with the guy who made an issue of it.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Then mind explaining why he even brought it up here?
[/quote]
Because apparently what they were doing worked for their shoulders/arms. I believe he was trying to make the dual point that it’s a good exercise for shoulders, but somehow the fact that they do them seated indicates laziness, hence them not training legs.
Not sure where he was planning on going with that odd logic though…
X bro you are cracking me up. It’s amazing you have the patience you do all this time.
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Then mind explaining why he even brought it up here?
[/quote]
Because apparently what they were doing worked for their shoulders/arms. I believe he was trying to make the dual point that it’s a good exercise for shoulders, but somehow the fact that they do them seated indicates laziness, hence them not training legs.
Not sure where he was planning on going with that odd logic though…[/quote]
Well, that would be because logically, there is no place to go from there unless he was agreeing that doing them seated can really allow a lot of people to focus on that one muscle group.
But hey, that is apparently a bad thing lately. The in thing to do is to work as many muscle groups as possible at once and then spend years later trying to undo imbalances.
[quote]WideGuy wrote:
X bro you are cracking me up. It’s amazing you have the patience you do all this time. [/quote]
I’m usually laughing as I type.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
My size is generally the topic of conversation when people first meet me. I tend to think that actually means something more than the guy who simply “works out” 3 x a week and no one can tell by looking at him.
[/quote]
Preaching to the choir…personally I would have no problem with you labelling yourself a BBer, seeing you are 2-4 months out of competition condition at any given time these days…I know for a fact most fuckers on this site are nowhere near that point, so of course there’s a major difference.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]WideGuy wrote:
X bro you are cracking me up. It’s amazing you have the patience you do all this time. [/quote]
I’m usually laughing as I type.[/quote]
Funny I pictured you in a basement, hunched and drooling all over your keyboard.
[quote]knee-gro wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]knee-gro wrote:
That ain’t powerlifting. Unless OH Presses is now one of the big 3.
[/quote]
Uh, yes it is…he’s doing it as part of PL training, and he is a PLer. That’s like saying lifting weights to get bigger isn’t bodybuilding, since when you lift you’re not on a stage getting judged. [/quote]
Yeah yeah I only noticed the marius one.
No need to get fresh with me.
My bad, I guess.
[/quote]
It’s all good.
“Up until 1972, the standing press was one of the three lifts contested in Olympic-style weightlifting. The reason the press was eliminated from competition wasn’t because it was inherently dangerous for the shoulder, but because lifters were turning it into a standing bench press by leaning back excessively, putting the lumbar spine at risk and making the technique criteria difficult to enforce.”
I’ve stopped doing standing presses for this very reason. I’m not big by any means (nor do I lift heavy ass weight), but my back arches more and more as the set progresses due to fatigue. Sooner or later, I’m bound to break something, so I’ve decided to err on the safe side and have some back support. And like others have said, hitting your shoulders while seated allows you to focus on hitting your shoulders.
[quote]jo3 wrote:
“Up until 1972, the standing press was one of the three lifts contested in Olympic-style weightlifting. The reason the press was eliminated from competition wasn’t because it was inherently dangerous for the shoulder, but because lifters were turning it into a standing bench press by leaning back excessively, putting the lumbar spine at risk and making the technique criteria difficult to enforce.”
I’ve stopped doing standing presses for this very reason. I’m not big by any means (nor do I lift heavy ass weight), but my back arches more and more as the set progresses due to fatigue. Sooner or later, I’m bound to break something, so I’ve decided to err on the safe side and have some back support. And like others have said, hitting your shoulders while seated allows you to focus on hitting your shoulders.[/quote]
The standing press is just like any other exercise…some should avoid it due to injuries like some should avoid benches and squats for the same reason. There is more then one way to skin a cat and the standing press is just one of many one can use.
Thing is i’ve never seen anyone, i.e recreational lifter, use an exaggerated back bend in the OHP like that discussed above. Why do it? Chances of injury would be great, plus, it’s actually kind of hard to master. The average lifter can use more weight and effort in just the regular standing version.
OP, maybe it’s an issue with your breathing… Maybe not… Kind of hard to tell over the internet 
As far as the dead horse goes:
Standing OHP works as a shoulder exercise… Obviously… But I’d consider it a second-rate exercises if you’re looking for maximum Shoulder size (note: If you have genetically great shoulders, then you can do whatever he fuck you want and they’ll grow. Same as every other bodypart. Doesn’t say shit about the exercises you’re doing)
or for the best possible movement for the shoulders to help your powerlifting bench press.
I never found any convincing reason to do them on a regular basis.
Seated on a very high incline works much better to improve my mid-range strength on the bench (allows for more weight in the part of ROM which matters and faster progression… Also probably causes a little less overall fatigue, which allows me to focus more on the big 3 or extra assistance work), and allows me to do a proper powerlifting setup (which hits the core too, so whatever…)… Way safer on my shoulders… I also do them from chin level or so, or from the pins, rather than full ROM (the last part of the ROM just causes trouble for me, always has, and I have extremely flexible shoulders…). From the chin is also easier when seated with a high incline rather than standing…
For BBing, Seated is good, but some HS machines flat out beat those, plus SHIPS and V-squat/power-squat push presses (push press in certain squat machines, great delt+lateral tricep builders imo).
DB presses are fine too, of course.
If I do something standing, then it’s usually DB presses: Easiest groove on my shoulders, No danger of overarching my back because the 'bells are right in line with my shoulders instead of in front at the beginning, etc. I just do that whenever my shoulders don’t feel like lifting super-heavy, clean the warm-ups up and take the working weight from those DB hook things in the rack.
Anyway… I’d do standing military if I had only a barbell and plates available… Or if I were competing in a military press competition And as an oly lifter (I guess)…
But really, for BBing and Powerlifting, I just don’t see the advantage… Progression is slower, it takes experience to get the setup (lower and upper back-wise) right in order to avoid injury over the long term, plenty of other exercises “hit the core”…
And why would I do them just for the sake of doing them?
Fine if other people want to, but I prefer my exercise selection to make sense considering my goals.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]admbaum wrote:
The guy may not be as big as some, but the weight of that lift should speak for itself.
[/quote]
Actually, NO. I am looking at his shoulders and they do not seem impressively developed. Can you guess why I mentioned DEVELOPMENT?
Can you?
I mean, really, can you?[/quote]
Yes I can but, I thought we were talking about the movement. Not all the other stuff that sprang up after that. We all know, or should, that the OP’s issue has nothing to do with the lift and everything to do with breathing. This isnt BB vs PL. Both types of athletes, and athletes of all types, benefit from the good ol’ overhead press.
Is it less logical to want to, or to not want to throw up those kind of numbers? Talk about majoring in the minors. No matter what you are training for, you’d still wanna put up numbers like that eventually. You know you would. If you dont, hand in your man card and start gathering berries.
Would it help if I showed you a bodybuilder talking about Military presses?
I dont want to be a bodybuilder, I’ll admit that, but I wanna learn as much as I can about standing overhead press because its in my current program and my worst lift.
why is this three pages long?? either do them seated or STFU! A little light-headedness is the least of your worries.
If this makes it to four pages I’ll lose all faith in humanity