Just in case anyone cares, i do overhead squats after ME squat day as a recovery exercise. obviously the load is significantly lower than back squat but it is a good exercise nonetheless and i believe more beneficial for abdominal developement and shoulder proprioception (sic).
as for front squats if you are doing them with crossed arms stance/grip slide your shoulders forward (scapulae protraction) so the bar sits in the groove created by your front delt and acromion process.
with the clean grip KEEP YOU ELBOWS HIGH. and dont try to grab the bar, let it sit in the groove in your shoulders sitting on your finger tips, not clutched in your sweaty little hands.
now i’ll let you kids get back to the bickering…
anti, believe me, if you’re using proper form, 95 pounds on your first try is pretty good. Flexibility is going to be your main impetus to improvement in this lift. Using a plate under your heels will allow you to get lower and still stay on your feet, unless you have lifting shoes or a good heel on whatever shoes you are using.
Why is the overhead so tough on your shoulders? If you didn’t notice the pain when you were doing them or perhaps afterwards, you must have very strong shoulders and some great endurance. They are holding the weight above your head in a long static hold. Tires the hell out of mine when I do them, which is rare. If you plan on learning the Olympic lifts, there are better ways to start out, but the overhead will get you comfortable with the power snatch with a full or partial squat. It’s be better perhaps to learn the snatch first.
Well, with noticing the shoulders, I would say the thing is I do military presses with 65 pound dumbells, and that is more than I was OH squatting.
I mostly noticed getting quite tired & worn out in my lower thoracic/upper lumbar region. Especially near parallel and anytime I went below it. Was very hard to maintain form at that point and keeping balance was the hardest part. It did seem to use that very front lip of the quads more than other squats.
With the front squats I’m just going to have to stretch my arms more and adjust to the big bend back.
You may have imagined it…
But since a a four time All-American in the shot putt and discus, who has represented the US on multiple National Teams and has been to the World Championships agrees with me, I feel confident that I am correct. Not to mention several throwers I currently train with who hold regional records.
Another question, did your power snatch/clean go up in that time? Did your technique improve?
"You may have imagined it…
But since a a four time All-American in the shot putt and discus, who has represented the US on multiple National Teams and has been to the World Championships agrees with me, I feel confident that I am correct. Not to mention several throwers I currently train with who hold regional records."
Oh, you’re definitely right. How could it have helped ME? If it didn’t work for those guys then it MUST not work for me. I must have imagined that increase in distance and the speed of my spin.
Wow, I’m so glad that you came along and told me what worked for me…I must have been imagining it all this time. Tell me, what else didn’t work for me? I’d really like to know.
Neil
“Another question, did your power snatch/clean go up in that time? Did your technique improve?”
I didn’t work on the snatch that much, and I never increased much in weight. I don’t know how much my clean increased, but I know my clean and push press went from 185 to 225. But that was always limited to what I could get overhead, not what I could clean, so I can’t tell you how much my clean improved.
And technique in what? The lifts? Not really. I learned them on my own, but that was with some ok technique, and I haven’t really improved this until recently. If you mean in my throw…yes, it improved. My balance was much better through the circle, and I could spin without worrying of losing my balance. This really let me concentrate on other things.
The whole chest out, back locked, real squat position, and the balanced needed to keep yourself in this position from doing the overheads really helped me keep this position during the spin.
Neil
Post your program, I’d be happy to tell you what else didn’t work for you.
Seriously though, by your own admission you don’t know much about training.
Considering your clean and push press increased by about 40 lbs, I’d bet the farm it was more liekly related to that.
Sully,
I’m sure the increase in the clean and press helped my power, but I think the overheads helped keep me “together” during the throw and helped harness that power increase.
Neil
“Seriously though, by your own admission you don’t know much about training.”
Right, but I know more about discus than lifting.
Then it begs the question, did the push presses (which by the way, require more abdominal power than the overhead squat) or the cleans cause you to “come apart”. Afterall, you need a good tri-lat tuck while puling big weights. Also, the fact that in the push press you can use far more weight than the overhead squat necessitates a greater contraction contraction of the core and mid/upper back muscles. Same goes for the clean.
NeilG,
I don’t want to bash you, but you’re pretty young, right? Just out of highschool, in fact? Well, let me tell you, you’re going to get inncreases in distance just but practicing the discus, no matter what you do in the weight room. For instance, I actually got weaker my senior year compared to my junior year (we did HIT training, don’t ask me why) and I still PR’d by 10 feet. I will agree, overhead squats may have helped some, but I think the reason for your PR’s can be related to PRACTICE.
WHen you start throwing the 2kg, things change and you have to get STRONG.
Jeffaruni,
That’s the thing…there wasn’t any practice between the big jump in distance. I went from throwing in the 120s in 11th grade, then as soon as the 12th grade season started, I started in the 140s. This was the biggest jump ever. I started in 9th grade with a PR of a standing 107’ throw. The year after I had a 115’ standing throw, but I started to learn the spin and hit a 116’ throw. In 11th grade, I was inelligable due to grades, but I was throwing in the 120s. Then all of a sudden 140s consistantly.
Neil
I only used overheads as a warmup/flexibility exercise, I tag it on the end of Javorek complex pre workout.
I hate front squats and do them occasionally, I use a clean grip.
Neil,
It sounds like you just got stronger as you matured. I used to gain 15-20 lbs. a year in my early to mid teens. Not from anything other than growing a year older. And of course, I got stronger.
Agreed. I didn’t do anything between my freshman and sophmore years, and put 20 feet on my discus throw.