I’ve recently begun Over Head Squating and have run into a question concering my form.
I started with the broomstick and have worked my way up to my most recent PR of 3x10 with the olympic bar. Hah go me!
My question is this. From the broomstick to the oly bar, I seem a-ok except for this one thing. When I drop down into the hole my arms bend at the elbows taking the arms from straight lock-out to that phase of the military press where the triceps have to kick the weight out into lockout. Now as I come back up, the arms naturally revert back to locking out. This happens on every rep.
Is this normal? If not, is it a felxibility issue (my assumption) or is it a tricep weakness, or something else entirely?
Whatever the prognosis, what are possilbe solutions?
It’s normal for a lot of people. Just keep plugging away, and remain extremely conscious of it, and do your best to LOCK the whole way through. It’ll improve over time.
[quote]JohnnyNinja wrote:
I’ve recently begun Over Head Squating and have run into a question concering my form.
I started with the broomstick and have worked my way up to my most recent PR of 3x10 with the olympic bar. Hah go me!
My question is this. From the broomstick to the oly bar, I seem a-ok except for this one thing. When I drop down into the hole my arms bend at the elbows taking the arms from straight lock-out to that phase of the military press where the triceps have to kick the weight out into lockout. Now as I come back up, the arms naturally revert back to locking out. This happens on every rep.
Is this normal? If not, is it a felxibility issue (my assumption) or is it a tricep weakness, or something else entirely?
Whatever the prognosis, what are possilbe solutions?
I don’t know if this is “normal”, but it shouldn’t be happening. I’m trying to imagine what lack of flexibility would cause this to happen, but I just can’t! That said, you must correct this issue, because you will eventually move up to a weight that your arms will not be able to support, which will cause the bar to fall (on you, most likely).
I don’t have any videos or photos at hand to post for you, but try to imagine this. While you are holding the bar overhead, rotate your arms (through the shoulder) so that the inside of your elbows are pointing forward. In this position, it is impossible for your arms to unlock. I started out with overheads a few months ago and doing this killed my wrists, so I’m warning you. I found that I couldn’t tolerate more than 6-7 reps.
First off, the guy in this pic is NOT doing them correctly. He is keeping the weight up with his triceps, and you can just imagine him doing some overhead presses after he’s got to the top.
And here is a pic with the correct arm position, which makes it impossible for them to collapse. In this way, the bar can only move forwards or backwards.
I would note that this guy is leaning too far forward in my opinion, but if his shoulders are flexible enough (which they are) then more power to him
[quote]Miserere wrote:
I don’t know if this is “normal”, but it shouldn’t be happening. I’m trying to imagine what lack of flexibility would cause this to happen, but I just can’t! That said, you must correct this issue, because you will eventually move up to a weight that your arms will not be able to support, which will cause the bar to fall (on you, most likely).
I don’t have any videos or photos at hand to post for you, but try to imagine this. While you are holding the bar overhead, rotate your arms (through the shoulder) so that the inside of your elbows are pointing forward. In this position, it is impossible for your arms to unlock. I started out with overheads a few months ago and doing this killed my wrists, so I’m warning you. I found that I couldn’t tolerate more than 6-7 reps.
Anyway, hope this helps.[/quote]
Also, envision that you are trying to “pull apart” the bar. Squeeze tight and pull your hands apart (without them moving) while rotating the inside of your elbows forward. Keep your back tight.
Your hands should be in the snatch grip position (out wide). A good piece of advice is to stand over the bar and spread your arms out parallel to the bar. Your grip should be approximately where your elbows are in this position. This will require a little adjustment over time to get it right for you.
I run into this problem when I start going heavier on the overhead squats. One thing that’s worked for me is rotating my thumbs forward (right hand clockwise and left hand counterclockwise). My hands don’t actually move, but the tension it provides helps keep my arms straight.
Thanks everyone, that answered it. A number of points.
I am indeed keeping my elbows out to my sides instead of behind me, which is in effect like military pressing it. This makes sense as I am pulling the bar from pins in the rack, not snatching it from the floor. I do in essence (but not build) look like the first guy pictured. Squating while holding a military press in the extended position (although my elbows bend more).
The 2nd picture clears that up nicely for me, thank you. Also of note, concerning grip; yup I was gripping much narrower than a snatch grip. I tend to over head press with my arms fairly close to my body and I was doing the same thing here. I will switch that up.
a basic rule is to always work even in standing form to push that weight up and back as far as you can. pushing the weight up will keep your elbows locked and pushing it back will make you a little more sturdy. by pushing the weight back it makes it so that the only direction the weight can teter is forward, instead of forward and backward, keeping your balance a little more centered. hard to explain but it will become apparent if you try it. good luck.
kasomak
[quote]JohnnyNinja wrote:
I am indeed keeping my elbows out to my sides instead of behind me, which is in effect like military pressing it. This makes sense as I am pulling the bar from pins in the rack, not snatching it from the floor.[/quote]
The best way I have found of starting OHs is as follows: I set the bar on the pins as for a back squat. I get under the bar, as I would for a squat, but put my hands wider (at the snatch width). I walk out with the bar, and then simply push-press it over head.
When I’m done with my reps, I let it drop down to my back and cushion the impact with my legs (make sure to catch it with your knees unlocked!).
[quote]Miserere wrote:
And here is a pic with the correct arm position, which makes it impossible for them to collapse. In this way, the bar can only move forwards or backwards.
I would note that this guy is leaning too far forward in my opinion, but if his shoulders are flexible enough (which they are) then more power to him :-)[/quote]
Hey, where did you find that pic of John Doyle doing the overhead squat?
[quote]Miserere wrote:
JohnnyNinja wrote:
I am indeed keeping my elbows out to my sides instead of behind me, which is in effect like military pressing it. This makes sense as I am pulling the bar from pins in the rack, not snatching it from the floor.
The best way I have found of starting OHs is as follows: I set the bar on the pins as for a back squat. I get under the bar, as I would for a squat, but put my hands wider (at the snatch width). I walk out with the bar, and then simply push-press it over head.
When I’m done with my reps, I let it drop down to my back and cushion the impact with my legs (make sure to catch it with your knees unlocked!).[/quote]
This is what I do since I haven’t improved enough on my power snatch to be able to put my max OHS loads overhead from the floor. Although I am working on my vertical presses at the moment to make sure I can lift more in my OHS as I’m reaching the limit I can push press.
Contrary to the black and white picture. I find it helpful if I push my head forward and down when OHS.
This seems to place the weight load on the upper back, lateral delts, and traps. Which results in me being able to use a heavier weight.
one thing I thin many people miss, at least the way I was taught, is to internally rotate your arms so the elbow points back when locked.
If you look at the picture of John Doyle, his elbows are pointing back. This makes it harder for the joint to come “unlocked” becuase the hinge of the joint moves in a different direction and then weight is pushing and gravity is pulling. Once you get used to it, it’s like the joint isn’t there.
[quote]swivel wrote:
it will get easier when you get a good lockout. and i think you’ll find the good lockout once you try to get some weight up there.
so there you have it. more weight makes it easier.[/quote]
I tend to believe this. Just using the oly bar is far more “comfortable” than using a broomstick or the 9 lb foam bars.
That said, you must correct this issue, because you will eventually move up to a weight that your arms will not be able to support, which will cause the bar to fall (on you, most likely).
