My right knee finally gave in yesterday. Everything had been going according to plan. I used the foam roller on my right hip/thigh to loosen up my problem areas. I did a good amount of warming up, starting with 135 lbs.
Did my final warm up set with 275, and it felt light so I went for a PR with 305. First two reps were solid but my knee popped on the 3rd rep and I had to rerack. After that, I couldn’t even squat all the way down due to the pain. I postponed today’s workout to tomorrow to give my knee some more rest, and tomorrow I’ll be replacing the squats with leg press.
Hopefully it’s nothing serious, although I’ve never experienced something like this before. I felt some pain walking up the stairs to my apartment, but I don’t know if it’ll persist. I feel like I’ve no choice but to take out squats for the rest of this ramp. Sucks, but I’d rather still get plenty of stimulation through leg pressing than no stimulation at all with a screwed up knee.
Looks like I’ll be buying some TK knee sleeves, the Magnificent Mobility DVD, and a foam roller.
Moral of the story: when your knee talks to you, don’t ignore it for two months.
With that in mind, what are some good exercises for the quads besides squats? My set-up this week was leg press, machine hack squat, and back squat. Although the hack squats killed my quads, they also put a lot of pressure on my right knee, even with my feet high up on the pad. That means I’ll probably remove that exercise too.
I’d also like to stay away from leg extensions, as I’ve heard that doing those heavy can really screw up your knees/ACL. What else can I do? Reverse lunges, perhaps? Maybe I could focus more on the hamstrings during this ramp?
damn man I feel for ya, injuries are the worst thing…what was wrong with your knee before the incident happened? What was bugging you about your knee for 2 months?
hey guys.
i have kind of been reading your posts on the program afer i read the book. I just wanted to know how you guys were comming along with growth and size. Im pretty keen on getting involved with BBB, but am also considering the 5/3/1 program for strength.
hopefully all your hard work is paying off.
Hey Modok,
Thanks mate for keeping me “on track” i.e. telling me to take a layoff would be stupid. I went to the gym and set PRs on every fuckin exercise! Cant wait for week 3 of supergrowth.
Small example: was on day 4 of the 4-day version and warmed up for Squats. Everything felt light and smooth, I loaded the bar to my working weight and opted to get 5-7 reps. I pounded out 12 reps with a weight that I had struggled to get 5 reps with last week. Good stuff!
Thanks for the support guys. To answer your questions:
@Burst and rasturai: My right knee started bugging me two months ago when I was doing Starting Strength, which calls for squatting 3x a week. In four weeks, I bumped my squat up from 225x3x5 to 265x3x5, but in the mean time, my right hip started to give me some problems. I did a little research on this and learned that my IT band/TFL that was probably the culprit, so I started to incorporate foam rolling into my warm ups. After one session, my knee started to bother me (don’t know if this is linked to my IT band problem… maybe my IT band compromised my form, which in turn put a lot more stress on my knee), but it wasn’t too terrible. Over time, my knee began to pop more frequently, and I felt some pain at the knees whenever I tried turning my body. Since it never became a serious issue, I never did much about it.
Recently (past 2-3 weeks), my knee had been tensing up more during my squats, so to alleviate it, I spent more time warming up with lighter weight. It seemed to have helped during my work sets, but my right knee always felt sore after my work outs. It wasn’t until Friday that the pain was bad enough to where I knew I had to stop.
@MODOK: My knee is feeling considerably better. Immediately after doing the squats, I couldn’t pull my leg all the way back (as if I were stretching my quad muscle). However, I still managed to do lying leg curls during that workout, so I knew nothing was broken/torn. Fast forward to today, and the discomfort is still there, but it’s pretty dull. I can stretch my quad muscle without discomfort, but I definitely feel some soreness if I put too much weight on my right leg (like if I were to stand on one leg) or if I push on my knee (like if you were putting pressure on a bruise). The soreness seems to come from directly under the patella.
And barbell hack squats… I might give that a try. I did these 2-3 years ago and fell backwards on my ass, but I’ll be a little more careful this time around
Damn…yeah jo if it’s one thing I’ve had problems with my IT band before…on both legs actually…soemtimes to the point where it bugs me/hurts to walk. I usually do nothin bout it but a couple of stretches…but at that time I was squatting more intensely then than I am now (if you can beleive that haha) but yaeh man the foam roller on the IT band will help a lot.
You can’t actually stretch the IT band at all…it’s a combination of the quads and hips. If you stretch out the quads and hips (just basic stretches a couple times a day for a couple of sets) it will relieve the IT band.
There’s also one stretch I like where you leave on leg straight (the one that hurts) and cross your other leg infront of it (it will b bent) and try to touch your toes. You’ll feel a stretch on the side of your leg.
Most of the time I did nothin bout it, but it isn’t very wise obviosuly.
Gettin in some fish oil I think helps…just for the anti-inflammatory effects. And just resting should help. If I would squat on Monday and again on Thursday…well it would hurt me Monday, tues, wednesday…but by thursday it’d feel good for squatting cause I would just rest up more and eat and it’d recover naturally…but it’s not really the best way to go bout it.
[quote]MODOK wrote:
I’ve been battling that exact same IT band issue for years. Its simply a lack of mobility in the hips and lower body. I get it stretched out, and it relieves it, but I always tighten back up in a few weeks. Its from sitting on my ass all day at work…or so I’ve been told.[/quote]
This has got to be it. This never became an issue until I started my internship this summer. This combined with me having a shitty uncomfortable chair at home probably led to my hip inflexibility.
[quote]rasturai wrote:
You can’t actually stretch the IT band at all…it’s a combination of the quads and hips. If you stretch out the quads and hips (just basic stretches a couple times a day for a couple of sets) it will relieve the IT band.
There’s also one stretch I like where you leave on leg straight (the one that hurts) and cross your other leg infront of it (it will b bent) and try to touch your toes. You’ll feel a stretch on the side of your leg.
[/quote]
I’m not sure that one is on here but here are some decent stretches to try out.
[quote]trav123456 wrote:
Don’t the jump sets kind of defeat the purpose of the restricted rest periods? I mean if you to 3 sets of squats then a few sets of something else, your thighs are really getting a lot more rest then what’s prescribed.
I thought the structure of the ramps was so that everything pretty much became a huge intense drop set. Maybe I’m missing the point, I can see how you would be using more weight with this technique but it just seems wrong to me.[/quote]
Going along with what the above poster said…
I don’t know if I would add any “intensity techniques” but if anything some look like they would make it less “intense”. For instance, jump sets were mentioned. Well all this is is antagonistic pairings and increasing the rest time for each muscle group.
So if you do chest, back, chest again as far as your chest is concerned you’ve really just increased rest time making it easier. Not like that is a problem in general but in the context of the program isn’t there a point to having say 90sec. rest between sets which is now being increased to 180+sec between sets of the same muscle group?
Also, It was mentioned above about continuing with the training phase past 3 weeks all the way up to 6. Personally I can’t see why anyone wouldn’t do that if strength gains during that time were going well, which I would assume they would be. Am I missing something? Any reason to limit yourself to 3 weeks if strength is still going up well (and I can’t see why it wouldn’t be).
Thanks
Edit: Modok how many years were you training before doing this? With your numbers you obviously weren’t a beginner. I know you mentioned some things but can’t remember anything specific about past training and whatnot.
yeah pumped I remember Modok says you can keep goin on supergrowth if your making strength gains and when you need that extra boost then when progress stops hit up the ramp.
Anyways I’m definately doin that now…and gonna push this supergrowth.
Rolling the outside of the upper quad will help with IT band pain/tightness. I had issues with my left outer knee a while back while doing wide stance low bar squats. Foam rolling and investing in a quality pair of knee sleeves (I use the ones from EliteFTS) helped tons. Just a suggestion for the knee issues.
[quote]Therizza wrote:
Rolling the outside of the upper quad will help with IT band pain/tightness. I had issues with my left outer knee a while back while doing wide stance low bar squats. Foam rolling and investing in a quality pair of knee sleeves (I use the ones from EliteFTS) helped tons. Just a suggestion for the knee issues.[/quote]
I’ll be investing in some ATP or Tommy Kono knee sleeves from ATP Pro Gear (prowriststraps.com), and I’ll most likely also get Magnificent Mobility and a foam roller to use at home.
Re: foam rolling, do you actually foam roll your knees? What I’ve been doing is foam rolling from above my hip (waist area) all the way down to about 1-2" above my knee cap. It seems to help, but I’m willing to roll down further if it’s recommended.
[quote]MODOK wrote:
Randiago wrote:
hey guys.
i have kind of been reading your posts on the program afer i read the book. I just wanted to know how you guys were comming along with growth and size. Im pretty keen on getting involved with BBB, but am also considering the 5/3/1 program for strength.
hopefully all your hard work is paying off.
Both programs are solid. Just choose one and stick to it for at least 6 months, and put your blinders on where you don’t jump from one program to another. Good luck.[/quote]
yeah thanks alot. im pretty keen on the bbb program and am defiantly going to run with it for 18 weeks minimum. once i sort everything out ill post my intended workouts based on what has been brought up before.
At first glance it may seem so. But remember, you’ve increased your volume considerably by adding another set per bodypart. 3 for week 1, 4 for week 2, and 5 for week 3. And you’ve adjusted your rests down from 120s to 90s. You are already creating progressive overload with the volume increase and some density increase.
So using jump sets will allow you to compensate the density decrease in week 5 by using a slightly better load. And again, you’re at 5 sets per which is a 25% increase in volume from the previous week.
Hopefully you can see the big picture of what I mean…
Best,
DH
[quote]trav123456 wrote:
Don’t the jump sets kind of defeat the purpose of the restricted rest periods? I mean if you to 3 sets of squats then a few sets of something else, your thighs are really getting a lot more rest then what’s prescribed. I thought the structure of the ramps was so that everything pretty much became a huge intense drop set. Maybe I’m missing the point, I can see how you would be using more weight with this technique but it just seems wrong to me.[/quote]
[quote]jo3 wrote:
Therizza wrote:
Rolling the outside of the upper quad will help with IT band pain/tightness. I had issues with my left outer knee a while back while doing wide stance low bar squats. Foam rolling and investing in a quality pair of knee sleeves (I use the ones from EliteFTS) helped tons. Just a suggestion for the knee issues.
I’ll be investing in some ATP or Tommy Kono knee sleeves from ATP Pro Gear (prowriststraps.com), and I’ll most likely also get Magnificent Mobility and a foam roller to use at home.
Re: foam rolling, do you actually foam roll your knees? What I’ve been doing is foam rolling from above my hip (waist area) all the way down to about 1-2" above my knee cap. It seems to help, but I’m willing to roll down further if it’s recommended.[/quote]
for your quads, what you’re doing is what I do. for the IT in general, rolling the tensor fasciae latae(the muscle on the side of your hip) and glutes works best for me. here’s a pic to show what I mean joe.
[quote]DH wrote:
At first glance it may seem so. But remember, you’ve increased your volume considerably by adding another set per bodypart. 3 for week 1, 4 for week 2, and 5 for week 3. And you’ve adjusted your rests down from 120s to 90s. You are already creating progressive overload with the volume increase and some density increase.
So using jump sets will allow you to compensate the density decrease in week 5 by using a slightly better load. And again, you’re at 5 sets per which is a 25% increase in volume from the previous week.
Hopefully you can see the big picture of what I mean…
Best,
DH
trav123456 wrote:
Don’t the jump sets kind of defeat the purpose of the restricted rest periods? I mean if you to 3 sets of squats then a few sets of something else, your thighs are really getting a lot more rest then what’s prescribed. I thought the structure of the ramps was so that everything pretty much became a huge intense drop set. Maybe I’m missing the point, I can see how you would be using more weight with this technique but it just seems wrong to me.
[/quote]
I see what your saying with this but it still seems to defeat the purpose in a way and I don’t see why they’re calling it an intensity trick. I guess intensity of weight is higher but it would definitely be easier going back and forth. I mean think about a normal workout. If you do 4x200 one week and then 4x205 the next sure your adding weight but it’s not really progress if your doubling your rest time. I know there is the increase in sets, but still.
Kind of typing as I think here but one thing I see is that this isn’t alternating every set, but rather the last 2 of the 5. So rest time is still limited the first 3 sets. Maybe if you just started the jump sets when you get to the 4 and 5 set workouts that would still be more than the previous workout and with higher loads (albeit still less density than if you just did 5 sets of one and then 5 sets of the other).
Even with doing the jump sets it still kicks my butt. Since you aren’t completely resting (ie. doing nothing) you are still moving weight just a different exercise, you are still keeping some intensity up. Like MODOK said…it’s only 1 week out of 6 as well.
