OTS Big Beyond Belief Program

[DH1]

I warmup a set or two and do Inside Out. Then hit all the sets called for as working sets… That post was from another thread. I was pointing out how writers arent’ always clear on how to structure their sets.

DH

[quote]zraw wrote:
"Well what gets confusing is ramping and warming up. For example I would gather from CTs stuff on bodybuilding that you warm up to your working sets and then do the number of sets/reps as work sets.

Lets say a classic bodybuilding setup of 12 sets per bodypart spread over 3-4 moves. Something Thib recommends all the time. We’ll use chest:

Bench Press 4x 6-8
Inc DB Press 4x 10-12
Cable Crossover 4x 12-15

Now when a person sees this I dont think that most people interpret this as:

Bench: 185x6, 225x6, 275x6 and then a top effort of 315x6
Inc DB Press: 75x10, 85x10, 95x10, and then a top effort of 110x10
CC: 100x13, 120x13, 140x13, and then a top set of 160x13

this is much closer to how Dorian Yates trained, only with about 2 exercises per bodypart.

I think that the vast majority of lifters trying to figure this all out have a logical right to assume that the coaches meant 4 sets of each execise with a load that was at or close to failure in the rep range for EACH SET. Thus making the standard chest workout above 12 “work” sets.

Ramping would only constitute 3 “work” sets even though I’m sure there is quality training effect from the submaximal effort sets.

I’d say that most lifters have a right to be confused because what they are seeing on videos is not the same as what they are reading.

DH

"

So in the supergrowth phases you do 2 ramps + 1 set or 3 sets?

[/quote]

[DH1]

[quote]MODOK wrote:
MiJuggernaut wrote:
Can anyone tell me the difference between Kroc rows and DB rows, I think I saw a video on you tube of a guy doing these but it just looked like db rows x 20 reps to me.

Secondly-loving the variation of upright rows I learned hear. From now on I am going to call them “Carnage Rows”

MODOK and C_C, I have been doing the high incline press for delts as per cc recomendation. I am wondering why it was suggested that I not do push presses as well. three reasons I want to include them:

1. CT says they are the best Delt exercise bar none.
2. Marius P. trains his shoulders with a BTN version. (Braver than me)
3. I think they are fun.
   I would hate to compromise my goals by doing the wrong exercise just because I like it, so I was just wondering what the cons/downside/negative perspective is. Thanks.

They are called Kroc rows because no one else can do 300 lb x 7 db rows.

I don’t know who said not to do push presses or why. Maybe they can chime in. I would guess that it has something to do with it being a ballistic movement and hard on the lumbar spine. You just gotta stay healthy in this program…lots of stress and strain on lotsa joints. Just keep it in mind in exercise selection and performance. [/quote]

Exactly. Thats why I like using compound moves on MWF and isolation moves on TRS when on ramp 2 and 3. You are hitting each bodypart 5-6x on the 6day program. Trying to do only compounds is brutal and unnecessary. Using isolation moves that work best for you allows you to add some “bodybuilding” to your power-bodybuilding compound moves. You’ll get all the strength you need off of doing compounds cycled with isolation moves on ramps 2 and 3.

DH

[zraw]

[quote]DH wrote:
I warmup a set or two and do Inside Out. Then hit all the sets called for as working sets… That post was from another thread. I was pointing out how writers arent’ always clear on how to structure their sets.

DH

zraw wrote:
"Well what gets confusing is ramping and warming up. For example I would gather from CTs stuff on bodybuilding that you warm up to your working sets and then do the number of sets/reps as work sets.

Lets say a classic bodybuilding setup of 12 sets per bodypart spread over 3-4 moves. Something Thib recommends all the time. We’ll use chest:

Bench Press 4x 6-8
Inc DB Press 4x 10-12
Cable Crossover 4x 12-15

Now when a person sees this I dont think that most people interpret this as:

Bench: 185x6, 225x6, 275x6 and then a top effort of 315x6
Inc DB Press: 75x10, 85x10, 95x10, and then a top effort of 110x10
CC: 100x13, 120x13, 140x13, and then a top set of 160x13

this is much closer to how Dorian Yates trained, only with about 2 exercises per bodypart.

I think that the vast majority of lifters trying to figure this all out have a logical right to assume that the coaches meant 4 sets of each execise with a load that was at or close to failure in the rep range for EACH SET. Thus making the standard chest workout above 12 “work” sets.

Ramping would only constitute 3 “work” sets even though I’m sure there is quality training effect from the submaximal effort sets.

I’d say that most lifters have a right to be confused because what they are seeing on videos is not the same as what they are reading.

DH

"

So in the supergrowth phases you do 2 ramps + 1 set or 3 sets?

[/quote]

Hahah i know i know i was j/k

Alltought it made me wonder if the supergrowth phase, as CC said, wouldnt be more effective with less than 3 working sets

[That_One_Guy]

Second ramp looks brutal.

[MiJuggernaut]

Thanks for all the feedback. I had overlooked the advantage of training a movement twice a week. I figured I’d post my program since I’ve asked so many questions.

Day 1: Bench, BO row, BB curl.
Day 2: Front squat, High incline press, CGBP.
Day 3: Inc Bench, Yates row (Reverse grip bent over), Inc DB curl.
Day 4: Deadlift, Carnage Row ™, kickback (I know its a pansy movement but triceps are constantly sore).
Day 5: Bench, Chin, BB curl.
Day 6: Back Squat, High Incline press, High Incline tricep extention.
*Abs calves worked in rotation: a. serratus crunch, b. standing calf raise c. Reverse crunch d. windshield wiper

Any feedback is much appreciated. Today is day two of week two on ramp one. decided to leave push presses for another training program. One thing I am wondering about is how to set up the second ramp. Thanks for the insight.

[SmallToBig]

Just a quick note…

I’m a f*cking animal LOL

I’m really starting to climb into the higher weight bracket now flying by people in my gym (haha) this supergrowth has kicked in almost immediately put 10kgs onto my lifts today.

F*ck ya !

Sitting Military Press: 80kg (175lbs) *9

Reverse Grip Bench Press; 75kg (165lbs) *8

Sumo Deadlift: 1st Set: 120kg (265lbs) *9 so i felt adventerous threw it up to
140kg (320lbs) *6

I’m loving weightlifting lol you get such a rush off lifting heavy shit.

[rasturai]

Regarding minimal back work being done on this program…

There is TONS of pressing I’m doing…4x a week - military press, miltiary DB press, incline press, becnh press, close grip press…it goes on lol…but for back work/rowing
I got bent over rows, and pull ups. that’s 2x a week…and although both are hit for 3-5sets (on ramps) is this enough…I do the bent over rows with the 13-15rep scheme, and the pull ups with 8-10 I’m pretty sure. I haven’t seen how the reps change liek that on my supergrowth…but was wondering if it’d be beneficial to just do 10 pull ups here n there throughout the day?

Just for some extra back work…it wouldn’t be anything taxing…I can bang out 10 pull ups very easy. ANd just a few times a week bang out an extra 40 reps lets say…so in 7 days I hit 40 extra reps on pull ups?

Too much or what do you guys think…I want my back to BE MASSIVE!!!
I know there isn’t direct work to the traps either…but I think I get enough for the high rep deadlifts.
Thanks!

[zraw]

[quote]rasturai wrote:
Regarding minimal back work being done on this program…
There is TONS of pressing I’m doing…4x a week - military press, miltiary DB press, incline press, becnh press, close grip press…it goes on lol…but for back work/rowing
I got bent over rows, and pull ups. that’s 2x a week…and although both are hit for 3-5sets (on ramps) is this enough…I do the bent over rows with the 13-15rep scheme, and the pull ups with 8-10 I’m pretty sure. I haven’t seen how the reps change liek that on my supergrowth…but was wondering if it’d be beneficial to just do 10 pull ups here n there throughout the day?
Just for some extra back work…it wouldn’t be anything taxing…I can bang out 10 pull ups very easy. ANd just a few times a week bang out an extra 40 reps lets say…so in 7 days I hit 40 extra reps on pull ups?
Too much or what do you guys think…I want my back to BE MASSIVE!!!
I know there isn’t direct work to the traps either…but I think I get enough for the high rep deadlifts.
Thanks![/quote]

You need to look at the program in its whole perspective and not just look at ramp 1…

On ramp 2, you hit your back everyday both on the 6days and 4days

On ramp 3, you hit your back 3days out of 4 on the 4days and 5 days out of 6 on the 6days…

I talked about this on the previous page or 2 page previously…

The program is pretty balanced if you take all 3 ramps into consideration, not if you look at each ramp separatly

(No delts exercise on ramp2)

[SmallToBig]

Ah i finally understand what you meant so LOL

[zraw]

[quote]SmallToBig wrote:
Ah i finally understand what you meant so LOL

[/quote]

Better late than never

[SmallToBig]

Ok i gave myself an extra challenge of getting a:

300lb Bench
400lb Squat
500lb Deadlift

Seems to be a standard of “Ok” strength i AM going to achieve it in this 18 week program. I’ve been getting called out numerous times over my lifts with some even calling me a troll, which obviously i’m not taking very kindly to. So in retaliation i’m going to reach this standard that some people here 3-4 years still haven’t reached yet in the program length.

I’ll be posting some videos soon, just so people can see i am actually lifting what i say i am but i’m going all out.

Redoing my program a small bit, to get this in the said time:

Day 1:
Rack Deadlifts
Flat Bench
Ez bar Curls
Calf Raise DC Style

Day 2:
Cephalic Military Press
Close Grip Bench Press
Back Squat
Abs

Day 3:
Incline Bench
Seated T-Bar Rows
Barbell Curls
Sitting Calf Raise

Day 4:
DB Military
Reverse Grip Bench (I like this)
Sumo Deadlift
Abs

Day 5:
Rack Deadlifts
Flat Bench
Ez bar Curls
Calf Raise DC Style

Day 6:
Cephalic Military Press
Close Grip Bench Press
Back Squat
Abs

• Swapped Inc Bench with Flat Bench, it now gets 2 sessions a week.

• Currently on 46kg Dumbells for DB Rows (must be trolling) my gym only goes to 50kg so DB Rows are coming out Rack Deadlifts are going in.

• Standing Military Press has frozen solid for 2 weeks, i will not tolerate this, it’s being booted, putting in Cephalics Military Press (he is famous) 1 noth below vertical seat, and bring bar down to chest, PL Style Set up on Seat.

-Obviously my Deadlift is still only getting 1 Day, but between doing Rack Deadlifts and 2 Squat Days i KNOW my body will do the 500lb pull for me.

In the spirit of this, i’m also adding in another meal into my program. If my numbers went fast before they are going to f*cking rocket up now. I love when people doubt me

[zraw]

[quote]SmallToBig wrote:
Ok i gave myself an extra challenge of getting a:

300lb Bench
400lb Squat
500lb Deadlift

Seems to be a standard of “Ok” strength i AM going to achieve it in this 18 week program. I’ve been getting called out numerous times over my lifts with some even calling me a troll, which obviously i’m not taking very kindly to. So in retaliation i’m going to reach this standard that some people here 3-4 years still haven’t reached yet in the program length.

I’ll be posting some videos soon, just so people can see i am actually lifting what i say i am but i’m going all out.

Redoing my program a small bit, to get this in the said time:

Day 1:
Rack Deadlifts
Flat Bench
Ez bar Curls
Calf Raise DC Style

Day 2:
Cephalic Military Press
Close Grip Bench Press
Back Squat
Abs

Day 3:
Incline Bench
Seated T-Bar Rows
Barbell Curls
Sitting Calf Raise

Day 4:
DB Military
Reverse Grip Bench (I like this)
Sumo Deadlift
Abs

Day 5:
Rack Deadlifts
Flat Bench
Ez bar Curls
Calf Raise DC Style

Day 6:
Cephalic Military Press
Close Grip Bench Press
Back Squat
Abs

• Swapped Inc Bench with Flat Bench, it now gets 2 sessions a week.

• Currently on 46kg Dumbells for DB Rows (must be trolling) my gym only goes to 50kg so DB Rows are coming out Rack Deadlifts are going in.

• Standing Military Press has frozen solid for 2 weeks, i will not tolerate this, it’s being booted, putting in Cephalics Military Press (he is famous) 1 noth below vertical seat, and bring bar down to chest, PL Style Set up on Seat.

-Obviously my Deadlift is still only getting 1 Day, but between doing Rack Deadlifts and 2 Squat Days i KNOW my body will do the 500lb pull for me.

In the spirit of this, i’m also adding in another meal into my program. If my numbers went fast before they are going to f*cking rocket up now. I love when people doubt me :P[/quote]

Not sure your lower back will live thru this my friend…

[SmallToBig]

[quote]zraw wrote:

Not sure your lower back will live thru this my friend…

[/quote]

Well theres only 1 way to find out isn’t there

Rack Deadlifts from just below the knee shouldn’t kill my lower back that much, especially in Supergrowth with the 3 minutes rest between sets.

And again there’s only 1 way to find out, if it fries my back then fuck it ill swap out 1 day if not they staying for the 2 weeks.

Im generally a hothead anyway LOL but lifting weights has made me even more hot headed

[SmallToBig]

[quote]MODOK wrote:
“Cephalic Military Press” WTH? Are you hitting your head with the bar or something? [/quote]

LOL

AHA

No the way he described it was one notch below vertical on the seat, and bring the bar down to chest, PL Style Set up on Seat ie Shoulder blades retracted feet firmly placed.

Unless of course that’s a newer version

[DH1]

More like Gironda rows. Ol Vince was doing these bent forward, wide grip and elbows spread wide 40 years ago. He got to some impressive weight too.

Just keeping the history alive. If you don’t know where you’ve been, you’ll never understand where you’re going.

DH

[quote]MiJuggernaut wrote:
Can anyone tell me the difference between Kroc rows and DB rows, I think I saw a video on you tube of a guy doing these but it just looked like db rows x 20 reps to me.

Secondly-loving the variation of upright rows I learned hear. From now on I am going to call them “Carnage Rows”

MODOK and C_C, I have been doing the high incline press for delts as per cc recomendation. I am wondering why it was suggested that I not do push presses as well. three reasons I want to include them:

1. CT says they are the best Delt exercise bar none.
2. Marius P. trains his shoulders with a BTN version. (Braver than me)
3. I think they are fun.
   I would hate to compromise my goals by doing the wrong exercise just because I like it, so I was just wondering what the cons/downside/negative perspective is. Thanks. [/quote]

[SmallToBig]

[quote]MODOK wrote:
OH! I got it. LOL

Cephalic for CC

I was thinking cephalic as in “head”.

CC has a twist on the military press…I gotcha.[/quote]

LOL allright i was wondering

Ya it’s meant to be pretty good so i’ll go do that for a while and really boost my “BS” Shoulder numbers.

[trav123456]

anyone have an idea on how to add weight to dbs, I just rowed 120x8 but once i get to the 5-7 stage i’ll need more weight and the dbs at my gym only go up to 110 (I used elastic bands this time to make 120’s)

or I could move db rows to the higher rep range i guess but i like doing them heavy

[Scott_M]

[quote]DH wrote:
More like Gironda rows. Ol Vince was doing these bent forward, wide grip and elbows spread wide 40 years ago. He got to some impressive weight too.

Just keeping the history alive. If you don’t know where you’ve been, you’ll never understand where you’re going.

DH

[/quote]

Yeah that’s what I assumed guys were talking about… I think Gironda called them High Pulls which is what I call them as well. Good movement for side delts if done properly

[Chidey]

[quote]trav123456 wrote:
anyone have an idea on how to add weight to dbs, I just rowed 120x8 but once i get to the 5-7 stage i’ll need more weight and the dbs at my gym only go up to 110 (I used elastic bands this time to make 120’s)

or I could move db rows to the higher rep range i guess but i like doing them heavy[/quote]

Could you use some short chains in some fashion? (if your gym allows such a thing)

[bugeishaAD]

[quote]SmallToBig wrote:
Ok i gave myself an extra challenge of getting a:

300lb Bench
400lb Squat
500lb Deadlift

Seems to be a standard of “Ok” strength i AM going to achieve it in this 18 week program. I’ve been getting called out numerous times over my lifts with some even calling me a troll, which obviously i’m not taking very kindly to. So in retaliation i’m going to reach this standard that some people here 3-4 years still haven’t reached yet in the program length.[/quote]

That would be extraordinarily impressive if you reached those numbers in that time frame. I enjoy watching your progress, and even if at times some of your numbers seem questionable, you show good heart and enthusiasm. No need to keep harping on the fact that some people think you’re a troll or whatever.