OTS Big Beyond Belief Program

Just out of curiosity

If you were to do BBB again, how would you guys : Modok, C_C, DH

Set your 3ramps + growth phases (exercise selection wise) on either the 4-days or the 1x/day 6-way. (chose one of the two :stuck_out_tongue: or do both if you’re a warrior haha)

(No the point here is not to just take the template you guys will have made)

If you dont feel like writing it down it would be perfectly understandable as it would take a bit of time to set it all up

I just feel like this could help us see how you would approach it according to your goals, strenghts and weaknesses

[quote]zraw wrote:
Just out of curiosity

If you were to do BBB again, how would you guys : Modok, C_C, DH

Set your 3ramps + growth phases (exercise selection wise) on either the 4-days or the 1x/day 6-way. (chose one of the two :stuck_out_tongue: or do both if you’re a warrior haha)

(No the point here is not to just take the template you guys will have made)

If you dont feel like writing it down it would be perfectly understandable as it would take a bit of time to set it all up

I just feel like this could help us see how you would approach it according to your goals, strenghts and weaknesses[/quote]

Well, I haven’t done the whole actual BBB routine, ever. Just Phil’s stuff and similar stuff, even some modified yates routines with higher frequency (the one I use with most beginners at the moment and many intermediates evolved over time from my yates experiments).

To be honest with you, if I were to do BBB now, I’d probably just do ramp1 + training phase 1 in repeat (probably an off-weak after training phase 1 and before the next ramp), 6-day once a day -version.
After a few runs through that, I’d likely drop work-sets on the growth phase down to 2 or just 1 per exercise as I’m used to…

I can’t warm up with just 5 reps at 50 and a few reps at 75 percent of working weight either, so I’d do a more elaborate warm-up… I could probably get away with the little back work as even on a 1/week/bodypart split I usually only do 2 back exercises total per back day… + Maybe some prehab stuff.

No jump-sets during the ramp-phase, can’t take a ton of volume at working weight anymore (if I ever could)

This is just what I’d do because I know from experience how much I can take and can pretty much guess how a routine will work for me… It’s not too hard after enough years of training and strength gains.

exercise selection (note: If I had a well-equipped gym at my disposal, this would look different…)

Mon
-Kroc rows (real focus on backthickness here, not as a lat+arm-flexor exercise!)
-Flat DB Bench (just because I hate flat BB benching)
-EZ Curls (or BB if I could take it, wrist-wise)…
-Don’t really need to train calves, but standing calf raise machine if I had to… Nothing else available that offers potential for progression…

Tue
-Seated high incline OHP(one notch/hole below vertical), free-weight (duh, no smith around)
-Board CGP, elbows tucked. No smith available for in-humans or wide-rgb…
-Leg Presses… Too many sets for back squats. I’d end up doing a bunch of widowmakers lol
If I were to reduce working sets down to one during the growth phases, I’d use back-squats though
Squats are done PL style mostly, wide-ish stance (for a raw-squatter, anyway).
-Pulldown abs, PL style

Wed
-Low-Incline DB Presses
-V-Handle Pulldowns… Bar Pulldowns have been feeling odd lately and there’s nowhere to do rack chins.
-Pinwheel Curls with straps.
-Probably no calf work… Or a different stance on the standing calf raise machine…

Thur
-My “special” variant of upright(or not quite upright) rows that doesn’t bother my shoulders or wrists and allows for much higher loads… Great for traps, lateral delts and rear delts.
-Face Away Extensions with a rope handle or PJR’s or Dead Extensions or whatever.
-PL Good Mornings? Might be too taxing… I’m not sure about this one. Maybe Parillo-SLDL’s…
-Situps with a plate behind the head.

Fri
-BO rows or kroc rows or some such… Dunno about doing krocs for multiple sets of 5-7 though. So I guess BO.
Edit: Make that kroc rows. Can’t do BO rows heavy after doing GM’s or SLDL’s the day before…
-Flat DB Bench
-EZ curls or so.
-fuck doing calves for low reps. Oh well. Standing Calf raise machine…

Sat
-Seated High Incline OHP (one notch/hole below vertical), free-weight (bah)
-Board CGP, elbows tucked
-Back Squats (actually, working shoulders before back squatting seems a little stupid to me… Especially when squatting low-bar… So maybe I’d use front-squats here instead, not sure)

All hypothetical, of course, and not what I’d really want to do.

I thought you mentioned before C-C how you did that upright row? Do just bend over more and still have a closer grip like a regular upright row? Also not sure if I asked this or thought about it…but what do you mean by back thickness and not just a arm+lat flexor exercise? Thanks man!

ROAD BUMP IN THE PROGRAM:
So as most know I was on week 3 of my 1st ramp…and I had one more day left. Which is TODAY to do the 4th day week 3 of Ramp 1. And then onto supergrowth.

WELL I knew somethin was wrong, but didn’t know what. But I have stomach flu lol.
I was up till 5:45am last night puking and shitting my guts out and have lost 10lbs. I am still dehydrated and stomach isn’t too good. Obviosuly I am not at work today lol. And there is no way I can train today, I can’t even stomach anything right now to eat…

What to do?
So I’m sure by tomorrow I’ll start being able to eat and such, but kinda un-sure whether to lift…Should I finish the 4th day of week 3 ramp1 OR should I just start my supergrowth phase either tomorrow or the day after tomorrow (which I think is gonna have to be the case)

Really sucks this happened…my dad actually had stomach flu 2 days ago so I’m 100% sure I just got it from him. Pretty damn bad though…still got a headache.
Thanks boys.

Take it off so and just chill leave it pass, no point stressing your body further while your sick, only prolong it.

Couldn’t come at a better time. Take a few days to a week off and then hit supergrowth like normal.

Fluids for the flu. unfortunately food will usually make things worse. But considering you’ve pushed yourself to the max point on your ramp, your body will enjoy the forced time off and you will be fine to resume your growth phase when you can.

DH

Man, that’s a doozy of a question.

One thing that jumps out to me is that I’d knock down the abs volume to about a single set at the appointed sessions. I’m a big believer that excessive ab work slows overall gains.

Also, you could begin to gear this toward your strength and weaknesses. If you get good front delt development from dips, close grips, bench etc… then just use isolation work like laterals and rear delt raises on “delt” sets. But I still progress best by using compound pressing overhead for overall mass. But then again, I don’t BB flat bench and haven’t for about 5 years.

If I were going to continue with a 2 way split I’d do either a push/pull scheme. Actually it would look very much like DC’s 2 way. Or Phils version where you do chest, back, bi, and tri on one day and then delts (isolation only) quads, hams, calves the next.

On Ramp 2 and 3, Id rotate a compound move with an isolation move every other day because you are hitting bodyparts 5-6x per week. I think compounds only would kill many people. These ramps hit 13-15 on M,Tu. 10-12 on W,Th. And 8-10 on F,S. So if you do a compound on MWF and an isolation on T,Th,S then that should help with both aesthetics and joint/tendon health.

And as far as when to take a rest day, I’d go by feel. Which is not at all advised for someone who is not highly experienced. Most should just observe how you respond to each phase and then make decisions accordingly in the future. You have to understand that you want to push it a bit “too much” and be comfortably “uncomfortable” during a ramp and then pull it in on the coast phase. Many would misinterpret their intital lethargy and soreness as a sign to back off too soon. Once youve seen how it feels to feel pushed and overreach before a rebound then you won’t get scared when you start to feel properly run down vs genuine overtraining.

And as for coast phases. I would have no problem cutting it all to 2-3 sets of a full body variation done on MWF vs the full 6 days.

OTS cautions you not to mix and match phases, but if you look at it, Supergrowth phase 1 is fine to be used at the end of any ramp. Now the others are specific to their own ramp so they must stay where they are placed or be replaced with supergrowth 1. It allows for a rebound effect from ANY ramp.

There is more I could ramble on about, but I don’t want to throw too much out and confuse everyone.

For now, lets do this thing as laid out, compare results and we can all help make adjustments (if needed) at the end of the road. Only by doing it this way can we all create a meaningful and useful “study” amongst ourselves.

And don’t worry about leaving it as is. That may be best in the end. One things for sure. I made some of the best gains of my life by following BBB the first time.

DH

[quote]zraw wrote:
Just out of curiosity

If you were to do BBB again, how would you guys : Modok, C_C, DH

Set your 3ramps + growth phases (exercise selection wise) on either the 4-days or the 1x/day 6-way. (chose one of the two :stuck_out_tongue: or do both if you’re a warrior haha)

(No the point here is not to just take the template you guys will have made)

If you dont feel like writing it down it would be perfectly understandable as it would take a bit of time to set it all up

I just feel like this could help us see how you would approach it according to your goals, strenghts and weaknesses[/quote]

Thanks guys. Yeah it really just hit me hard man…I’m about to eat a banana to get something in my system I haven’t eaten since 3pm yesterday…It’s gonna be 24 hours soon no food. But yeah from around 8pm-5:45am I was awake…or would fall asleep every 15 min. and wake up and run to the bathroom to puke/bad diahherra.
I don’t think I’ve ever had it this bad in my life though…
Anyways though I’ll see when I can start supergrowth…not really wanting to take a WHOLE week off…but perhaps on the weekend I’ll be tip top shape and gain some of my weight back.

It is true it couldnt come at a better time though lol I’m happy it came now and not 2nd week of my ramp!

Anyways though thanks for the support boys…keep on rollin.

And as CC pointed out, warming up (or ramping if you prefer) adds a new wrinkle. I personally like doing Inside Out as my preworkout routine. My shoulders are so freakin’ stiff that under normal conditions, I’m not hitting my stride until 3-4 sets in. Halos are great for me to warm up my shoulders as are DC shoulder rotations. Starr called them “dislocates”. I add these to Inside out. By doing this, I can then use only a set or two of regular warmups before I feel ready to fully load.

But this is a unique situation to the advanced lifter.

DH

Rast, a whole week off is not at all a bad thing after a full three week ramp and being ill. don’t sweat it.

Thanks DH, sounds cool.
I got insideout DVD too actually…do you follow ALL of their exercises? I like their foam roll stuff, but some of the exercises just seem weird to me…I kinda prefer just doing reg. shoulder work. Band dislocates, shoulder stretches, face pulls, scap wall slides, rear raises, rows, shoulder capsule stretching, prone y’s, t’s…pretty much the YTWL drill.
All these things to keep the shoulders healthy and workin. And thorasic foam rolling etc.

But some of the exercises like laying on the ground and doing some twisting motions lol sorry i cant remember what they are called…i dont think those are for me…those must be for ppl with shouler problems or something…I have no shoulder problems…I just do the exercises I listed above to make em balanced n healthy.

I’m pretty sure though I have tight pecs though…so I have been stretching these lately…with door stretches, and some other stretch that hits the pec minor I saw on eric C’s article. I’ve also been tryin to get my dad to do the 2 simple ART techniques for the chest and upper back that Eric also shows in his article for healthy shoulders.

Shit, I think I am doing somethig wrong! I am in week 3 of Ramp 1, 4 times a week version, and the workouts are tough and in some exercises I am losing strength, not dramatically, just one or at most three reps per exercises. BUT overall I feel fine not really fatigued am I maybe doing something wrong?

[quote]GodOfSteele wrote:
Shit, I think I am doing somethig wrong! I am in week 3 of Ramp 1, 4 times a week version, and the workouts are tough and in some exercises I am losing strength, not dramatically, just one or at most three reps per exercises. BUT overall I feel fine not really fatigued am I maybe doing something wrong?[/quote]

From Modok:

I’ve just bought the Big Beyond Belief ebook. This thread has caught my interest, still have a few weeks of blastin’ DC to follow. A few weeks of vacation, followed by BBB training. Can’t wait, but I’ll have to. =)

[quote]GodOfSteele wrote:
Shit, I think I am doing somethig wrong! I am in week 3 of Ramp 1, 4 times a week version, and the workouts are tough and in some exercises I am losing strength, not dramatically, just one or at most three reps per exercises. BUT overall I feel fine not really fatigued am I maybe doing something wrong?[/quote]

From the Book:
“Do Not be confused by a temporary loss of strength. Once you have settled into the workout routine you may experience a loss of strength or endurance. Do not panic if this happens. you are not overtraining. your body is just adapting to the added stress you are providing it.”

You got me wrong. I know the strength loss is normal but i thought that would go hand in hand with some systemic fatigue. Just a bit confused.

Just finished week one of ramp one. I did not change or add ne thing to the program, just did it exactly as written. I was skeptical that there was not enough volume. However on the last day of the week I was able to use my working weight for 5X5 for 3 sets of ten! To me this is utterly amazing. My advice to anyone is to stick with this program as written, and unless you are injured or on the verge of injury, don’t worry about how you feel or if your levator scapulae longus gluteus femoris is getting enough work… Just my 2 cents for what it’s worth. Keep busting your a$$ guys.

I’ve been lurkin on this thread and I decided to start the 4x this week, I just got back from day 2, high rep squats are killer! There seem to be alot of people on this, it’s gonna be interesting to see how people develope.

Starting it in 6 weeks :slight_smile:

[quote]MiJuggernaut wrote:
Just finished week one of ramp one. I did not change or add ne thing to the program, just did it exactly as written. I was skeptical that there was not enough volume. However on the last day of the week I was able to use my working weight for 5X5 for 3 sets of ten! To me this is utterly amazing. My advice to anyone is to stick with this program as written, and unless you are injured or on the verge of injury, don’t worry about how you feel or if your levator scapulae longus gluteus femoris is getting enough work… Just my 2 cents for what it’s worth. Keep busting your a$$ guys.[/quote]

X2!