I think Tito and Ken should fight every single month until they become good friends. This would be good for the sport of MMA because Tito & Ken don’t like each other and that’s all that makes a fight compelling. Afterwards, they can host a morning talkshow called Coffee Time With Ken & Tito where they talk about how redundant rematches brought them together as BFF’s.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
apwsearch wrote:
Zeb, I guess I am struck with two questions I would like to pose.
- If you were Herb Dean, what would you have done differently?
simply waited! And while waiting looked very carefully at Ken Shamrock to see if those blows were actually effecting him. Not “assume” that they were.
- If I owned UFC and appointed you COO tomorrow, what would you do in response to this fight?
At this point I would go to each contestant and ask if they want one more final fight. Other than that, there is not much to say or do. You almost have to back up your referee publicly. But I would have a serious sit down talk with Dean in private to make sure that something like this did not happen again.
For what it is worth, I currently own 3 seperate businesses and had this discussion with the President of our most profitable company, who is a big fan of UFC, so I would love to contrast your opinions with his.
Remember, the UFC is a business.
You are now the COO of UFC.
What is your action plan moving forward?
I do not live in a world where it is sufficient to just debate and offer criticism.
I eagerly await your reply.
Fans want to see a good fight. But no fight should ever go beyond what is safe for the fighters simply to please certain blood thirsty fans.
Unfortunately this fight was an example of what happens when to much caution is used.
[/quote]
I have to be honest with you and anyone that agrees with you; this fucking thread is fucking ridiculous and illustrates the ignorance that abounds here not only about fighting but other subjects as well. I just watched the clip yet again. The fucking guy (Shamrock) was laying there after taking a decent elbow and his hands were not even attempting to raise to defend…are you fucking kidding me?
Dean should have waited for a man who was not defending himself to see if he was o.k.? I suggest you watch the clip again and consider your decision in real time the way Dean had to. Ken was on his way to getting hurt. The rules don’t encourage an injury. Sorry if this is pointed and its not meant as an insult but I guess if you ever fought (street fights don’t count) you would appreciate the difficulty of the ref’s job and the paramount importance of the fighter’s health.
You’re sitting here playing Monday morning quarterback, attempting to judge after the fact the severity of the blows and attempting some magical conjuration of Ken’s state of mind at that point WHILE IGNORING THAT HE TOOK A GOOD ELBOW AND WAS NOT EVEN ATTEMPTING TO BLOCK FURTHER ELBOWS. LOOK AT WHERE HIS HANDS ARE!!! This thread is idiotic. Truly idiotic.
And is it any coincidence Randy himself echoes these very thoughts in the interview…“initially I thought why are they stopping the fight”…“after watching the replays…he’s not attempting to block…his hands…four or five shots…I think Dean did the right thing”…
Let me see…this is just Randy covering up for the good of the UFC right? LOL. One of the biggest measures of a man is his ability to admit his error and move on…not hold onto an opinion in the face of superior reason. That’s just stubborn. You know what? During the fight…I had the exact same reaction…watched the replays and pragmatically concluded the ref didn’t have much choice…KEN GAVE HIM NO CHOICE.
I didn’t like it…but it was the right thing to do. I am positive…would bet my lunch money, that Dean was not “spoken to” by the UFC folks.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
MaloVerde wrote:
ZEB wrote:
I’ve been in a few scrapes in my time. Some not so bad. Others pretty nasty. Of course that was a while ago when I used to do the bar scene.
You equate drunken bar brawls to MMA experience? Right.
Are you an amnesia victim?
You said this: You have obviously never been in a fight or gotten hit that many times.
You did not mention mma experience did you?
And, I never mentioned that I was ever involved in any “drunken bar brawls.”
So on the one hand you cannot remember what you said. And on the other hand you are assuming what I stated instead of actually reading it.
That makes you 0 for 2 so far.
I don’t think it’s the amount of unanswered punches that matter. It’s more of where and how they land. And of course who is taking them and who is giving them.
You just made my point.
No, actually I made my point. Did you forget who you are?
The cut fighter was still defending himself.
I brought that up to point out that someone can be cut and LOOK very badly hurt but it’s not so. And in Shamrocks case someone can be catching a few elbows…or forearms as the case might be and also not be hurt.
Boxers where very large gloves compared to mma fighters. Yet, many become brain injured and sometimes with no apparent cuts or scrapes. It’s the repeated blows to the head over a period of time, jarring the brain that cause long lasting damage. Not that one fight cannot do it…it can but usually not.
Again you make my point. Five unanswered blows. You are encouraging the refs to allow 19 unanswered blows.
You’re and odd duck. But then again this is the Internet and well…
My point is that it depends. Sometimes someone can take 10 unanswered blows and be okay. Othertimes it only takes ONE and the fight should be stopped.
To make it even more simpler for you: It has to do with the damage done to the fighter who has received the blows.
D o Y o u U n d e r s t a n d ?
If Shamrock had any problems with the blows from Titos elbow he would not have popped up so fast after the ref stepped in prematurely. There might even be a case that Tito’s elbows were more glancing blows and that’s why Shamrock did not bother to defend them. If you understand fighting you know that sometimes you take a few shots to deliver one big one…or in the case of mma a submission hold etc.
Did you watch the same fight. Even the live view you could tell Tito was conecting.
Really? Then why did Randy Couture seem surprised that the fight was stopped? Play back the fight and listen to Couture who was sitting right next to the action!
He latter backpedaled as he didn’t want the ref to look bad. But his initial reaction was one of shock!
Why? Because his first reaction was that he didn’t think the fight should have been stopped
Because the ref stopped it at the proper time. Did you look at Ken’s face when he was walking back to the dressing room. His cheeks were fucked.
Okay how old are you?
Are you still a teenager?
He had a red mark on his left cheek bone. BIG DEAL!
Again because the ref stopped it before the beating got out of hand. Just because someone can stay concious after 19 unanswered blows does not mean it should be allowed to happen.
5 defenseless, unanswered blows is plenty.
Oh I see…so it doesn’t matter where the blows land, who is throwing them or his is on the recieving end. Nor does it matter the position that the person is in when he takes the blows. And it matters not if they are fresh as in the first couple of minutes, or very tired in the later rounds…RIGHT?
Then according to your logic if someone hits another in the shoulder 5 times the match is over.
Get real.
Please tell me you’re a kid. Restore my faith in adulthood.
I didn’t equate my experience to bar room fights, so how would you know what my experience is. I have never fought a professional fight. There now you know my experience.
At this point in the debate I’m less concerned with how much ma experience you have and more concerned that you are probably in 10th grade.
Zeb,
How you can relate your drunken bar room brawls to having fight experience is beyond me.
Oh…I really love this kid…
Never said a word about “drunken brawls” kid.
The fight did end too soon, but that has nothing to do with the ref ending the fight.
Wrong…It had everything to do with the ref not being aware of where the blows were landing and other important factors.
He needs some retraining.
And you…um you probably need to finish High School.
And me…I definitely need to stop debating teens…
See…we all can learn.
[/quote]
A difference in opinion and you resort to calling me a kid? You need to relax amigo. Your arguements make me wonder if you lost money on the fight or something. You are so angry that you don’t even know what you are arguing anymore.
You should continue debating teens though, you might be able to get them to agree with your ill thought out arguements.
Good luck and we’ll see you on another thread.
[quote]MaloVerde wrote:
A difference in opinion and you resort to calling me a kid? You need to relax amigo. Your arguements make me wonder if you lost money on the fight or something. You are so angry that you don’t even know what you are arguing anymore.
You should continue debating teens though, you might be able to get them to agree with your ill thought out arguements.
Good luck and we’ll see you on another thread. [/quote]
My apologies for calling you a teen. It’s just that there are a large amount of teens that seem to infest the mma threads.
And they all seem to be experts at the age of 15.
Sorry man.
Zeb
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
ZEB wrote:
apwsearch wrote:
Zeb, I guess I am struck with two questions I would like to pose.
- If you were Herb Dean, what would you have done differently?
simply waited! And while waiting looked very carefully at Ken Shamrock to see if those blows were actually effecting him. Not “assume” that they were.
- If I owned UFC and appointed you COO tomorrow, what would you do in response to this fight?
At this point I would go to each contestant and ask if they want one more final fight. Other than that, there is not much to say or do. You almost have to back up your referee publicly. But I would have a serious sit down talk with Dean in private to make sure that something like this did not happen again.
For what it is worth, I currently own 3 seperate businesses and had this discussion with the President of our most profitable company, who is a big fan of UFC, so I would love to contrast your opinions with his.
Remember, the UFC is a business.
You are now the COO of UFC.
What is your action plan moving forward?
I do not live in a world where it is sufficient to just debate and offer criticism.
I eagerly await your reply.
Fans want to see a good fight. But no fight should ever go beyond what is safe for the fighters simply to please certain blood thirsty fans.
Unfortunately this fight was an example of what happens when to much caution is used.
I have to be honest with you and anyone that agrees with you; this fucking thread is fucking ridiculous and illustrates the ignorance that abounds here not only about fighting but other subjects as well. I just watched the clip yet again. The fucking guy (Shamrock) was laying there after taking a decent elbow and his hands were not even attempting to raise to defend…are you fucking kidding me?
Dean should have waited for a man who was not defending himself to see if he was o.k.? I suggest you watch the clip again and consider your decision in real time the way Dean had to. Ken was on his way to getting hurt. The rules don’t encourage an injury. Sorry if this is pointed and its not meant as an insult but I guess if you ever fought (street fights don’t count) you would appreciate the difficulty of the ref’s job and the paramount importance of the fighter’s health.
You’re sitting here playing Monday morning quarterback, attempting to judge after the fact the severity of the blows and attempting some magical conjuration of Ken’s state of mind at that point WHILE IGNORING THAT HE TOOK A GOOD ELBOW AND WAS NOT EVEN ATTEMPTING TO BLOCK FURTHER ELBOWS. LOOK AT WHERE HIS HANDS ARE!!! This thread is idiotic. Truly idiotic. [/quote]
Well…I just took another look at the fight. And to be perfectly honest with you…I WAS RIGHT!
Sorry man, we just are not going to see this one eye to eye.
All may refer back to my prevous posts on the subject.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
One of the biggest measures of a man is his ability to admit his error and move on…not hold onto an opinion in the face of superior reason. That’s just stubborn.[/quote]
Well okay then stop being so stubborn and change your mind.
Move on move on…Shamrock was not at all hurt and Dean jumped the gun…
lol
[quote]doogie wrote:
But at least there was no Joe Rogan.[/quote]
He’s kind of grown on me, actually.
Sure, he’s a lowly tae kwon do guy.
But he’s no small man, and he seems to have been learning alot of clinch/bjj lately.
I saw footage of some guy on fear factor fighting with him.
True: People rushed into break it up quickly.
But Rogan was holding his own.
Any Tae Kwon Do / Kung Fu / Karate guy who changes what he’s doing when he finds MMA is a step above in my opinion
[quote]ZEB wrote:
MaloVerde wrote:
A difference in opinion and you resort to calling me a kid? You need to relax amigo. Your arguements make me wonder if you lost money on the fight or something. You are so angry that you don’t even know what you are arguing anymore.
You should continue debating teens though, you might be able to get them to agree with your ill thought out arguements.
Good luck and we’ll see you on another thread.
My apologies for calling you a teen. It’s just that there are a large amount of teens that seem to infest the mma threads.
And they all seem to be experts at the age of 15.
Sorry man.
Zeb
[/quote]
Actually, there are lots of guys, age 15, who have incredible talent at BJJ/MMA.
That is one of the differences between a good MMA coach and a bad one - the good coach can make you good fast, if you put the time and sweat in.
It isn’t like karate, with weird claims that it takes 10 years to master.
And then, after “mastering” it, it still isn’t worth a shit.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
MaloVerde wrote:
A difference in opinion and you resort to calling me a kid? You need to relax amigo. Your arguements make me wonder if you lost money on the fight or something. You are so angry that you don’t even know what you are arguing anymore.
You should continue debating teens though, you might be able to get them to agree with your ill thought out arguements.
Good luck and we’ll see you on another thread.
My apologies for calling you a teen. It’s just that there are a large amount of teens that seem to infest the mma threads.
And they all seem to be experts at the age of 15.
Sorry man.
Zeb
[/quote]
I feel like we just had a cyber hug. I feel better now. Thanks.
[quote]wires wrote:
doogie wrote:
But at least there was no Joe Rogan.
He’s kind of grown on me, actually.
Sure, he’s a lowly tae kwon do guy.
But he’s no small man, and he seems to have been learning alot of clinch/bjj lately.
I saw footage of some guy on fear factor fighting with him.
True: People rushed into break it up quickly.
But Rogan was holding his own.
Any Tae Kwon Do / Kung Fu / Karate guy who changes what he’s doing when he finds MMA is a step above in my opinion[/quote]
Joe Rogan is actually a great host. I like his style, and the fact that he has the balls to stand up to bad judging when it happens.
This is the video you are talking about Joe Rogan Fear Factor Fight - YouTube and that guy is lucky Joe didn’t knee his pathetic ass in the head.
[quote]MaloVerde wrote:
ZEB wrote:
MaloVerde wrote:
A difference in opinion and you resort to calling me a kid? You need to relax amigo. Your arguements make me wonder if you lost money on the fight or something. You are so angry that you don’t even know what you are arguing anymore.
You should continue debating teens though, you might be able to get them to agree with your ill thought out arguements.
Good luck and we’ll see you on another thread.
My apologies for calling you a teen. It’s just that there are a large amount of teens that seem to infest the mma threads.
And they all seem to be experts at the age of 15.
Sorry man.
Zeb
I feel like we just had a cyber hug. I feel better now. Thanks.
[/quote]
You’re welcome!
That wasn’t a fight
Anyway, I enjoy Rogan and his commentating,
“And he’s Italian, so you know its a big target”
-Rogan talking about Alessio Sakara getting kicked in the coglioni
[quote]EmperialChina wrote:
wires wrote:
doogie wrote:
But at least there was no Joe Rogan.
He’s kind of grown on me, actually.
Sure, he’s a lowly tae kwon do guy.
But he’s no small man, and he seems to have been learning alot of clinch/bjj lately.
I saw footage of some guy on fear factor fighting with him.
True: People rushed into break it up quickly.
But Rogan was holding his own.
Any Tae Kwon Do / Kung Fu / Karate guy who changes what he’s doing when he finds MMA is a step above in my opinion
Joe Rogan is actually a great host. I like his style, and the fact that he has the balls to stand up to bad judging when it happens.
This is the video you are talking about Joe Rogan Fear Factor Fight - YouTube and that guy is lucky Joe didn’t knee his pathetic ass in the head.[/quote]
[quote]Reef wrote:
Instead of paying $40 for one event, you guys should look into live internet streams for PPV. I use one from streamtvnow.com. I pay $4.00 for a whole month of any UFC, boxing, WWE PPV event. The picture quality isn’t bad either (obviously not as good as on TV).
[/quote]
holy shit.
Thank you for this.
You’ve saved me at least $100 in the last 2 nights.
[quote]doogie wrote:
Reef wrote:
Instead of paying $40 for one event, you guys should look into live internet streams for PPV. I use one from streamtvnow.com. I pay $4.00 for a whole month of any UFC, boxing, WWE PPV event. The picture quality isn’t bad either (obviously not as good as on TV).
holy shit.
Thank you for this.
You’ve saved me at least $100 in the last 2 nights.
[/quote]
Just for my benefit, as I am not sure I understand…Streamtvnow.com has LIVE UFC PPV’s?
[quote]TWalton wrote:
doogie wrote:
Reef wrote:
Instead of paying $40 for one event, you guys should look into live internet streams for PPV. I use one from streamtvnow.com. I pay $4.00 for a whole month of any UFC, boxing, WWE PPV event. The picture quality isn’t bad either (obviously not as good as on TV).
holy shit.
Thank you for this.
You’ve saved me at least $100 in the last 2 nights.
Just for my benefit, as I am not sure I understand…Streamtvnow.com has LIVE UFC PPV’s?
[/quote]
Yes.
and Boxing
and NFL
and NBA
and MLB
and Wrasslin’
and a bunch of Euro-stuff
and some PPV movies (no porn).
[quote]doogie wrote:
TWalton wrote:
doogie wrote:
Reef wrote:
Instead of paying $40 for one event, you guys should look into live internet streams for PPV. I use one from streamtvnow.com. I pay $4.00 for a whole month of any UFC, boxing, WWE PPV event. The picture quality isn’t bad either (obviously not as good as on TV).
holy shit.
Thank you for this.
You’ve saved me at least $100 in the last 2 nights.
Just for my benefit, as I am not sure I understand…Streamtvnow.com has LIVE UFC PPV’s?
Yes.
and Boxing
and NFL
and NBA
and MLB
and Wrasslin’
and a bunch of Euro-stuff
and some PPV movies (no porn).
[/quote]
dammit people, stop mentioning it so much! Everyone can just follow the link and see for themselves what’s up. If they want to spread the knowledge and it comes up in contest elsewhere, they can casually mention it. But if we all stand around going “wow, this is great, I had no idea about this!” it’ll go the way of napster, and imesh, and …
If you want some interesting listening material, go check out Ken Shamrock’s audio interview on today’s edition of Sherdog’s Beatdown Radio. He claims that he had Tito right where he wanted him (elbowing the fuck out of his face?), and that he was never hurt either time he fought him. He also calls Herb Dean a coward. It’s interesting to see how Ken Shamrock thinks.
After watching this fight it looks to me Ken was hoping the ref would stop the fight.Its funny he wasnt defending himself and jumps up when the ref calls the fight acting pissed off, just good acting by Ken folks. I think Ken is in Ufc for the money and doesnt care about winning. Just my 2 cents. Think back to the Rich Franklin fight how it was similar with Ken not defending himself. Ken shouldnt be fighting period IMO. He beat Kimo a few years ago, WOW. But who since then?
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
dammit people, stop mentioning it so much! Everyone can just follow the link and see for themselves what’s up. If they want to spread the knowledge and it comes up in contest elsewhere, they can casually mention it. But if we all stand around going “wow, this is great, I had no idea about this!” it’ll go the way of napster, and imesh, and …
[/quote]
It’s not based in the U.S. so it won’t go the same way as napster. Also, we need more Euro’s loading streams.