And yes, I would definitely ask DJ. He knows what’s going on.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Here’s my thought on the AM/PM deal.
First the disclaimer. I’m not by any means an endurance athlete, nor do I have much experience in trading training ideas with them. HOWEVER, my readings do indicate that the general progression of training in a workout should go from Speed, to Strength, to Strength-Endurance, to Endurance, in that order. (Kurz 2000).
I’ve also found this pattern to be generally true for multiple workouts in a day, if each of the workouts has a specific goal, as yours seem to.
My thoughts on the matter are that your nervous system is freshest for high demand work before you do your endurance work. The other part is that muscle glycogen is not yet depleted if you train your strength first, and this will allow you to work much harder.
Balancing this out, of course, is that if your primary training goals are all endurance related, then you need to work your primary goals first and foremost, no matter what. But from the nature of your posts, I think that you seem to be leaning more towards the strength spectrum for the short term.
Hope this helps.[/quote]
I like it. I’m hoping DJ will put a reply in.
It brings in a good set up to start my “baseline” training in September (after this season) when I can spread out each segment into several months.
It might be possible to go squeeze it all into the 21 weeks remaining.
4 weeks speed
4 weeks strength
5 weeks endurance-strength
5 weeks endurance
3 weeks taper
I would recommend you read Percy Cerutty’s book…I think it is called “Cerutty on Training.” It was written by someone else…a guy in Denver…but it was all Cerutty.
His idea was to do much like you are all posting…a general build up, then speed things up BUT with a huge base of weight lifting and gymnastics. Now, gymnastics is pullups, hanging from the bar, and stuff like that…
I understand what you are trying to do here, and I can see the benefits of the split. The only thing is this: endurance…as the crossfit.com guys will tell you…seems to come “better” by faster work. So, maybe the morning workouts could have an LSD aspect once or twice a week (Long Slow Distance…for recovery, NEVER equate it with quality work), a serious ‘hard’ day (maybe the day you squat) where you do a time trial (excellent for a triathlete…maybe a race pace swim, bike or run…or a combo of just two), another day where you do intervals with long rests (three minutes plus) and another day where you do sub one minute rest intervals…like Tabata or Trembalays (forgive the spelling).
I would avoid the long junk miles daily unless you are doing fartlek in the morning. If so, really have bouts of hard fast flat out fast running…a couple of hills and a varied run.
In your lifting, you will need to be a little proactive on your eating plan. An a.m. endurance “thingee” is fine, but you need to be sure to eat within a reasonable time after that, and be sure you have three more ‘meals’ of a sort before you life. Now, the reason for this is that I think OLAD calls for a high protein, high fiber…low simple carb…and generally “moderate” caloric intake. In other words, eat your damn veggies and fruits, but also your salmon, tuna, eggs and snack smart.
The endurance stuff is going to eat up some of you that would be best saved for the lifting recovery. Having said that, I think you need to map out your eating to make sure you do eat enough to try to balance these two relative extremes.
I still think that you would do better with shorter more intense endurance work in the morning. When I say "endurance’ here, it means the running or whatever. I would consider, if I were you, combining the a.m. stuff with a couple of moves…
20 Swings with a kbell, one lap run, for five sets…timed.
7 stadium steps, 7 situps, one lap, seven times (the Big Al Challenge).
This way…and crossfit has a billion ideas on this…you will get a great workout in as little as four minutes but rarely much longer than 20. This seems to do wonders for a lot of people.
Then, in the afternoon, you can have fairly tame 30-45 minute workout with one lift and not burn up the candle on both ends.
Thanks DJ!
I have read and it seems to mush together… I will read again and take notes.
I looked on Amazon. Was it “Training w/ Cerutty”?
As far as my “endurance” training. I have kept the LSD stuff to a mere “recovery” workout (as you suggested)
My cycling drills usually involve “Scream Intervals”:
-
Warm-up 20:00
-
Int #1: 1:00 (highest gear) as hard as possible without throwing up (Zone 5+).
-
Recover: 4:00 (lowest gear)
-
Int #2: 1:15
-
Recover: 3:45.
-
Int#3: 1:30
-
Recover: 3:30
-
Int #4: 1:15
-
Recover: 3:45
-
Int #5: 1:00
-
Recover: 4:00
-
Recover: 20:00
-
Repeat Int #1-5
-
Cool down: 20:00
My running drills usually follow “track” workouts. 3 types: Speed-Endurance, Speed, Endurance. None of which is LSD. Each is just a different type of tweak on the intervals.
I am still developing my swim workouts, but never anything LSD.
My diet follows the Massive Eating principles and is strict to JB’s 7 principles.
Hope this gives a better idea of my training style in regards to triathlon.
I on the other, am entirely lost. I hate to keep asking for your time. Anyone else see how to get this into a schedule?
Thanks again DJ. Hope to hear from you again 
DJ
That is an excellent post!
There is alot of info there, Thank you.
After re-reading this is what I have considered:
OLAD Workouts:
- DB Bench
- Rows
- Squat
- Military Press
- Deadlift
Tri Workouts:
- LSD #1: 1h Swim (w/ Fartlek "twist)
- LSD #2: 45m Cycle + 45m Run
- Long Rest Interval: Cycle Scream Intervals
- Short Rest Interval: Track Speed-Endurance Workout
- Hard Day: Race Pace Swim
Now I just need to match them up and tweak with the AM/PM
I am planning on this being a 4 week bout. I am not sure if it would be recommended to just cut out the OLAD aspect for 4 weeks and then cycling it back for 4.
Thoughts appreciated…
The Proposal:
S:
OFF
M:
AM: Track Drills (Speed-Endurance)
PM: OLAD Bench
T:
AM: LSD 1h Swim
PM: OLAD Row
W:
AM: Cycle Scream Intervals
PM: OLAD Squats
T:
OFF
F:
AM: LSD 45m Cycle + 45m Run
PM: OLAD Military Press
S:
AM: Race Pace Swim
PM: OLAD Deadlifts
Oh, Epsom Salt, my new summer sweatheart.
2 Weeks: Speed Work
4 Weeks: OLAD + Tri (Above)
4 Weeks: Endurance-Speed Work
4 Weeks: OLAD + Tri (Above)
2 Weeks: Speed-Endurance
4 Weeks: Endurance
1 Week: Taper + Carboload
RACE
nice answer from Mr. John!
See, I told you he had his shit together!
Stocking up the supplements:
Low-Carb Grow!
Surge
Classic Grow!
Power Drive
Carbolin 19 (Full Dose During OLAD)
ZMA
[quote]TriGWU wrote:
Stocking up the supplements:
Low-Carb Grow!
Surge
Classic Grow!
Power Drive
Carbolin 19 (Full Dose During OLAD)
ZMA
[/quote]
Have you used Power Drive before?
If you haven’t…you’ll like it. I know I do. Started using it about ten days ago after reading of it’s general bennies for the CNS, not just as a ‘get up’ pre workout.
They ain’t shittin.
(full B-test slut mode on!)
Stuff not only wakes you up and gets you goin’, but it really does stimulate the CNS.
First time I used it was before chest day. Got more reps with more weight than before.
I’d been struggling doing more than CW singles with 315, with this stuff I was getting easy doubles.
[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
TriGWU wrote:
Stocking up the supplements:
Low-Carb Grow!
Surge
Classic Grow!
Power Drive
Carbolin 19 (Full Dose During OLAD)
ZMA
Have you used Power Drive before?
If you haven’t…you’ll like it. I know I do. Started using it about ten days ago after reading of it’s general bennies for the CNS, not just as a ‘get up’ pre workout.
They ain’t shittin.
(full B-test slut mode on!)
Stuff not only wakes you up and gets you goin’, but it really does stimulate the CNS.
First time I used it was before chest day. Got more reps with more weight than before.
I’d been struggling doing more than CW singles with 315, with this stuff I was getting easy doubles.
[/quote]
Hijacking my own thread. But hell it keeps it bumped for replies.
I threw in some Power Drive with my Carbolin 19 order. I honestly was expecting nothing. I have yet to try it before a weight routine, but I tried it before some cycle intervals… and the point where I normally would be saying “how much longer”… I was chanting “give me more… give me more”
I know it will be a key component to these 4 week bouts I am planning. If this goes according to planned, I will have to keep diet and supplements real tight to come out healthy.
With a bit more tweaking the program looks badass. Sleep, Eat, Lift.
Massive Eating calls for 5,500 Kcal.
Every time I start to want to say something to you about the number of calories, I remember that Berardi puts me at around there give or take for losing fat.
Still, I think I’d rather have your metabolism.
But eating that much is an awful burden.
You’re training too many aspects at once. Gains in srength and endurance will be held back by each other. Try to specialize in either or.
[quote]poper wrote:
You’re training too many aspects at once. Gains in srength and endurance will be held back by each other. Try to specialize in either or.[/quote]
I’ve taken this into consideration and read the studies. It’s time to give something new a shot. There is a good chance Carbolin 19 might help me pull this off. Whats the worst that happens? I don’t beat my PR and I learn from it. You beat PRs by trying something new… pushing the limits. You can’t push limits without taking risks. I am already in race condition 21 weeks out from the race. Even if I maintain the condition I am at now, I will be more then ready for the race. Time to take a risk… time to kick some f-ing ass.
[quote]TriGWU wrote:
poper wrote:
You’re training too many aspects at once. Gains in srength and endurance will be held back by each other. Try to specialize in either or.
I’ve taken this into consideration and read the studies. It’s time to give something new a shot. There is a good chance Carbolin 19 might help me pull this off. Whats the worst that happens? I don’t beat my PR and I learn from it. You beat PRs by trying something new… pushing the limits. You can’t push limits without taking risks. I am already in race condition 21 weeks out from the race. Even if I maintain the condition I am at now, I will be more then ready for the race. Time to take a risk… time to kick some f-ing ass.[/quote]
Well said, if you don’t try you don’t know!
I went for my first ride in about 3 months yesterday, only about 1 hour on a fairly easy course and at an easy pace, about as short as I go on any of my rides. Got a rude shock this morning when I woke up with very stiff leg muscles! I hated the fact that I felt this way after what is usually a “warm-up” ride, so I am going to get back into it by riding to work a few days per week, which is actually along the same road. This would split up the total ride into 35-40 minute sessions about 8-9 hours apart. I’m interested to see what will happen in regards to strength training on my legs, but I like the idea that easy cycling could be a good recovery method for my leg muscles.
Keep us posted TriGWU, it definitely seems like an intense program, good luck!
[quote]bg100 wrote:
TriGWU wrote:
poper wrote:
You’re training too many aspects at once. Gains in srength and endurance will be held back by each other. Try to specialize in either or.
I’ve taken this into consideration and read the studies. It’s time to give something new a shot. There is a good chance Carbolin 19 might help me pull this off. Whats the worst that happens? I don’t beat my PR and I learn from it. You beat PRs by trying something new… pushing the limits. You can’t push limits without taking risks. I am already in race condition 21 weeks out from the race. Even if I maintain the condition I am at now, I will be more then ready for the race. Time to take a risk… time to kick some f-ing ass.
Well said, if you don’t try you don’t know!
I went for my first ride in about 3 months yesterday, only about 1 hour on a fairly easy course and at an easy pace, about as short as I go on any of my rides. Got a rude shock this morning when I woke up with very stiff leg muscles! I hated the fact that I felt this way after what is usually a “warm-up” ride, so I am going to get back into it by riding to work a few days per week, which is actually along the same road. This would split up the total ride into 35-40 minute sessions about 8-9 hours apart. I’m interested to see what will happen in regards to strength training on my legs, but I like the idea that easy cycling could be a good recovery method for my leg muscles.
Keep us posted TriGWU, it definitely seems like an intense program, good luck![/quote]
Definitely going to give it a go. Lookin for one last “go ahead” from DJ.
[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
Every time I start to want to say something to you about the number of calories, I remember that Berardi puts me at around there give or take for losing fat.
Still, I think I’d rather have your metabolism.
But eating that much is an awful burden.
[/quote]
During intense training I can go up around 5,500 and not gain a lb. I wouldn’t be surprised if I could push 6-6.5 grand during those 4 weeks. I have to consider I will be on Carbolin 19 as well.
DJ,
If you get a chance. Could ya give 'er a look?
bump!