Olympia 2013

Training
821

There’s somthing about phil that I’ve never liked, and I’m both a size fan, and a kai fan, but it was clear to me from the get go that phill was the winner of this contest. I understand BBing is subjective but to me when you look at the top six standing on stage, there’s Phil, and then there’s 5 other guys, I wish it wasn’t so. Kai’s a monster, and I’d love to see him win, I think piece by piece he beats Phil, but as a whole package, not even close. I do think that Phil is trying to hard to add size, and it’s slowly starting to show in his waist, I think in the end this will be what beats him, himself.

As for all the Branch haters, Branch brings somthing on stage that doesn’t transfer to photos. Mountains of granite muscle, that like Phil, but in a different way, make him stand out from the line up. I’m not trying to defend him, because I think he has a kind of ugly build, but he’s so much thicker, and carries so much more muscle, that when in line, your eye gets drawn to him. His whole carear he’s placed ahead of better BBer’s. His conditioning was off this year, but he still stands out in the line.
Big props to Rolley, been watching for years, and his arms, and shoulder’s are nuts. 2cents

822

Surprised nobody mentionned this, and I think its an error but they listed Roelly Winklaar as 5’6 285 lbs… lol

823

this is a really shitty video clip but for those who think phil clearly won…

phil alone is mr. o, Friday kai was too soft, not as crisp or detailed. when he is really dialed in his low back and lats are all deeply feathered.

kai lost BECAUSE he lost on Friday. Phil won because he is consistent.

SATURDAY - phil was abut he same, kai was tighter and harder than he was the previous night.

standing side by side i loved seeing kai get pissed and look at phil, calling him out. KAI made phil look small, in this 43 shit clip kai looked like Mr. O. loved that he posed w/ soem balls and not the typical fruity rhiana bullshit.

not butt hurt by the loss, kai blew it on night one. phil is consistent and kai brings different looks, had he displayed night two on night one - kai would have won. he did not.

kai brings the dorian, ronnie crazy holy shit factor - it’s just below the surface. phil does not have this.

824

[quote]bigjoey wrote:

[quote]mntnbiker wrote:
This is purely my opinion,but of the current crop of pro’s big Ced is head and shoulders above the rest.I know hes not as conditioned as many,but he has the best proportions- dare i say"regal" look that i dont think since haney anyone else has displayed.No weak body parts(his calves crap on wolf’s) and his quads/hams are by no means small,i imagine they’ve probably got a larger circumference than his waist. top that with him being a soldier and a family man,hell if ever bodybuilding was to go mainstream Ced would certainly be a pretty good poster boy[/quote]

Ced has a really nice physique but you really can’t give it to him over these other guys. This is bodybuilding. What people who talk about being aesthetic forget is that all these ‘aesthetic’ athletes from the past like Sergio, Arnold, Haney -these were the mass monsters of their respective eras. The sport has moved on from then as the athletes have put on more muscle.

Cedric has said that he wants to emulate those physiques from the late 1980s and early 1990s, and doesn’t want the huge thighs of competitors today. That’s fine, and if he was standing up at a late 1980s Olympia against Lee Haney, Rich Gaspari, Lee Labrada etc then he’d do just swell. But you can’t stand this guy next to the guys who made top ten and give it to him over them in his current condition. It’s a shame, because as people keep saying he has all the tools. But it seems like he’s actively choosing not to use them in a way which wins contests in 2013.[/quote]

If that’s the case, it’s his prerogative. However, the fact remains Cedric, unlike most of the Olympia competitors, actually has a full-time job outside bodybuilding (he’s in the Army/Navy or something like that).

825

[quote]zraw wrote:
Surprised nobody mentionned this, and I think its an error but they listed Roelly Winklaar as 5’6 285 lbs… lol

Yeah I couldn’t believe how thick he was. I was as surprised at those stats as anyone else. He could possibly be the thickest Mr Olympia competitor ever. I have never heard of 5’6" 285 lbs in contest shape. Unless it is an error of course…

826

watching a wrap up w/ flex, shawn…and later dorian.

i tend to agree w/ dorian - the question: what does kai have to do to win? Dorian said, quite simply - come in shredded.

i think he looks good fuller and bigger, his waist was fine being that he stayed lean yr. round, he just needs to not walk out looking soft in prejudging, when Kai is bigger but also in shape, e.g. night two i think he is just better more “Mr. O” than phil.

i’m done, i’ll chime in next year.

827

[quote]cyruseven75 wrote:
this is a really shitty video clip but for those who think phil clearly won…

phil alone is mr. o, Friday kai was too soft, not as crisp or detailed. when he is really dialed in his low back and lats are all deeply feathered.

kai lost BECAUSE he lost on Friday. Phil won because he is consistent.

SATURDAY - phil was abut he same, kai was tighter and harder than he was the previous night.

standing side by side i loved seeing kai get pissed and look at phil, calling him out. KAI made phil look small, in this 43 shit clip kai looked like Mr. O. loved that he posed w/ soem balls and not the typical fruity rhiana bullshit.

not butt hurt by the loss, kai blew it on night one. phil is consistent and kai brings different looks, had he displayed night two on night one - kai would have won. he did not.

kai brings the dorian, ronnie crazy holy shit factor - it’s just below the surface. phil does not have this.

[/quote]

I agree about the freak factor. Kai has the back and legs of Ronnie…or has at least come closest to it.

828
829

[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:

[quote]cyruseven75 wrote:
this is a really shitty video clip but for those who think phil clearly won…

phil alone is mr. o, Friday kai was too soft, not as crisp or detailed. when he is really dialed in his low back and lats are all deeply feathered.

kai lost BECAUSE he lost on Friday. Phil won because he is consistent.

SATURDAY - phil was abut he same, kai was tighter and harder than he was the previous night.

standing side by side i loved seeing kai get pissed and look at phil, calling him out. KAI made phil look small, in this 43 shit clip kai looked like Mr. O. loved that he posed w/ soem balls and not the typical fruity rhiana bullshit.

not butt hurt by the loss, kai blew it on night one. phil is consistent and kai brings different looks, had he displayed night two on night one - kai would have won. he did not.

kai brings the dorian, ronnie crazy holy shit factor - it’s just below the surface. phil does not have this.

[/quote]

I agree about the freak factor. Kai has the back and legs of Ronnie…or has at least come closest to it.[/quote]

I, like you, have become a fan of Kai, HOWEVER, there are, when looking at it objectively, glaring weaknesses. Kai has comparatively no upper traps. Glutes and hams are much less defined and Heath has better shoulders, triceps and forearms. Thicker chest too…

Kai was 5-7lbs too heavy. Simple as that. This was especially apparent on Friday.
Kai trumps Heath in back thickness, especially lower lats (boy, imagine these lats on Wolf!!)but Heath destroys him on side poses. Kai does have a fantastic double biceps pose…
BUt, It wasn’t that close, really.

And quite frankly, last year it was Heath who acted like a dick during the final posedown but this time around I did not like the antics of Kai at all. Pushing with the elbows, both left and right, singing posters as if Mr. Olympia already. Nah, not impressed.

Wolf had him, I thought…his conditioning was spot on and he has the size and shape…

Kai will not be second next year if Wolf can repeat…

830

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:

[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:

[quote]cyruseven75 wrote:
this is a really shitty video clip but for those who think phil clearly won…

phil alone is mr. o, Friday kai was too soft, not as crisp or detailed. when he is really dialed in his low back and lats are all deeply feathered.

kai lost BECAUSE he lost on Friday. Phil won because he is consistent.

SATURDAY - phil was abut he same, kai was tighter and harder than he was the previous night.

standing side by side i loved seeing kai get pissed and look at phil, calling him out. KAI made phil look small, in this 43 shit clip kai looked like Mr. O. loved that he posed w/ soem balls and not the typical fruity rhiana bullshit.

not butt hurt by the loss, kai blew it on night one. phil is consistent and kai brings different looks, had he displayed night two on night one - kai would have won. he did not.

kai brings the dorian, ronnie crazy holy shit factor - it’s just below the surface. phil does not have this.

[/quote]

I agree about the freak factor. Kai has the back and legs of Ronnie…or has at least come closest to it.[/quote]

I, like you, have become a fan of Kai, HOWEVER, there are, when looking at it objectively, glaring weaknesses. Kai has comparatively no upper traps. Glutes and hams are much less defined and Heath has better shoulders, triceps and forearms. Thicker chest too…

Kai was 5-7lbs too heavy. Simple as that. This was especially apparent on Friday.
Kai trumps Heath in back thickness, especially lower lats (boy, imagine these lats on Wolf!!)but Heath destroys him on side poses. Kai does have a fantastic double biceps pose…
BUt, It wasn’t that close, really.

And quite frankly, last year it was Heath who acted like a dick during the final posedown but this time around I did not like the antics of Kai at all. Pushing with the elbows, both left and right, singing posters as if Mr. Olympia already. Nah, not impressed.

Wolf had him, I thought…his conditioning was spot on and he has the size and shape…

Kai will not be second next year if Wolf can repeat…[/quote]

Didn’t get too see the show live, but looking at the videos Kai looks blurry compared to
Phil. Politics are not, it’s hard to argue that anyone has a better blend of size, shape, and detail than Phil. His side tricep and most muscular dominates Kai IMO.

I like seeing Wolf do well, but he is just as likely to finish 8th next year as he is to finish top 3. I would like to see him win the Arnold but he is just so inconsistent.

831

As much as I did not want Heath to win again, he looked the best hands down. Kai was a bit soft on Friday and just didn’t bring the shreddedness that Phil had both days. I’m real glad to see the big bad Wolf in the Top 3. He has done nothing but improve year after year.

832

[quote]bigjoey wrote:

[quote]mntnbiker wrote:
This is purely my opinion,but of the current crop of pro’s big Ced is head and shoulders above the rest.I know hes not as conditioned as many,but he has the best proportions- dare i say"regal" look that i dont think since haney anyone else has displayed.No weak body parts(his calves crap on wolf’s) and his quads/hams are by no means small,i imagine they’ve probably got a larger circumference than his waist. top that with him being a soldier and a family man,hell if ever bodybuilding was to go mainstream Ced would certainly be a pretty good poster boy[/quote]

Ced has a really nice physique but you really can’t give it to him over these other guys. This is bodybuilding. What people who talk about being aesthetic forget is that all these ‘aesthetic’ athletes from the past like Sergio, Arnold, Haney -these were the mass monsters of their respective eras. The sport has moved on from then as the athletes have put on more muscle.

Cedric has said that he wants to emulate those physiques from the late 1980s and early 1990s, and doesn’t want the huge thighs of competitors today. That’s fine, and if he was standing up at a late 1980s Olympia against Lee Haney, Rich Gaspari, Lee Labrada etc then he’d do just swell. But you can’t stand this guy next to the guys who made top ten and give it to him over them in his current condition. It’s a shame, because as people keep saying he has all the tools. But it seems like he’s actively choosing not to use them in a way which wins contests in 2013.[/quote]
Agreed hes not likely to topple the current crop anytime soon,but as i got into BB in the early eighties i admit im somewhat biased to the physiques of that era!Of course theres no going back now,gonna be crazy to see what the standard is in another 20years time…

833

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:

[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:

[quote]cyruseven75 wrote:
this is a really shitty video clip but for those who think phil clearly won…

phil alone is mr. o, Friday kai was too soft, not as crisp or detailed. when he is really dialed in his low back and lats are all deeply feathered.

kai lost BECAUSE he lost on Friday. Phil won because he is consistent.

SATURDAY - phil was abut he same, kai was tighter and harder than he was the previous night.

standing side by side i loved seeing kai get pissed and look at phil, calling him out. KAI made phil look small, in this 43 shit clip kai looked like Mr. O. loved that he posed w/ soem balls and not the typical fruity rhiana bullshit.

not butt hurt by the loss, kai blew it on night one. phil is consistent and kai brings different looks, had he displayed night two on night one - kai would have won. he did not.

kai brings the dorian, ronnie crazy holy shit factor - it’s just below the surface. phil does not have this.

[/quote]

I agree about the freak factor. Kai has the back and legs of Ronnie…or has at least come closest to it.[/quote]

I, like you, have become a fan of Kai, HOWEVER, there are, when looking at it objectively, glaring weaknesses. Kai has comparatively no upper traps. Glutes and hams are much less defined and Heath has better shoulders, triceps and forearms. Thicker chest too…

Kai was 5-7lbs too heavy. Simple as that. This was especially apparent on Friday.
Kai trumps Heath in back thickness, especially lower lats (boy, imagine these lats on Wolf!!)but Heath destroys him on side poses. Kai does have a fantastic double biceps pose…
BUt, It wasn’t that close, really.

And quite frankly, last year it was Heath who acted like a dick during the final posedown but this time around I did not like the antics of Kai at all. Pushing with the elbows, both left and right, singing posters as if Mr. Olympia already. Nah, not impressed.

Wolf had him, I thought…his conditioning was spot on and he has the size and shape…

Kai will not be second next year if Wolf can repeat…[/quote]

I agree about the traps and forearms. Kai has short bellies which can give the illusion of less size, but it seems like he is still thicker. I think the “flatter” traps is due to his shoulder structure simply being flatter.

Phil has that nice angle or slope (like Paul Dillett) which seems to expose the traps more.

Forearms is where Phil dominates every competitor and Kai may (genetically) have the weakest.

It sounds like Kai should do some snatch grip high pulls with a thick bar…not that I would ever tell him how to train. :wink: But yeah, you make some good points.

Phil is definitely the prettiest.

834

I quite frankly had expected Phil to be bigger. All that talk about training arms all year etc.

To me Wolf and Roelly really were the stand outs.

A bit miffed Roelly did not get 6…

835

I was very disappointed with Evan but was very happy with Beyeke. Seems like he was able to dial his conditioning in a lot better than he normally does. Cedric looks like he is starting to focus a little bit more which will make him a threat. I think at this point I have made it obvious that I am beyond happy for Wolf and thought he deserved second but am fine with third. As far as Phil, as much as I am not a fan of him, I agree that he was the clear winner. Wolf and Kai made it a little bit harder for him on day two but he pretty much solidified himself by being consistent on both days.

836

ifbbpro.com/results/2013-olympia-scorecards-3/

Like I said, Phil won both rounds unanimously (5+5=10). According to all judges, Kai didn’t do better during the finals. In other words, he didn’t lose the contest during the prejudging. In fact, he even lost a point (10+11=21). Wolf improved a bit during the finals (15+14=29).

837

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
ifbbpro.com/results/2013-olympia-scorecards-3/

Like I said, Phil won both rounds unanimously (5+5=10). According to all judges, Kai didn’t do better during the finals. In other words, he didn’t lose the contest during the prejudging. In fact, he even lost a point (10+11=21). Wolf improved a bit during the finals (15+14=29).[/quote]

Ok, from this what I get is this: he came shredded in the finals, no extra points. He was soft on first day, no points lost. SO, let’s just say that they want phil to win for the next couple of years, so we won’t have to go through all this again next year.

GO KAI!

838

[quote]niksamaras wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
ifbbpro.com/results/2013-olympia-scorecards-3/

Like I said, Phil won both rounds unanimously (5+5=10). According to all judges, Kai didn’t do better during the finals. In other words, he didn’t lose the contest during the prejudging. In fact, he even lost a point (10+11=21). Wolf improved a bit during the finals (15+14=29).[/quote]

Ok, from this what I get is this: he came shredded in the finals, no extra points. He was soft on first day, no points lost. SO, let’s just say that they want phil to win for the next couple of years, so we won’t have to go through all this again next year.

GO KAI![/quote]

I don’t think this is a fair assessment. Kai knows what he needs to do, for years now he has been told, and for years now he doesn’t do it. He consistently comes in a bit too heavy and holds some water somewhere…

He improves a bit (sometimes!) on the second day but not dramatically. There is so much more to judging these guys than what you and I might like visually. Judges know how difficult it is to come in shredded, and the difference between shredded and what Kai brings is big to them.

Kai needs to be willing to sacrifice another 3-5 lbs for the Friday prejudging and he will take it from Heath.

That was the one thing Aceto, Palumbo, Yates and other agreed on. He can win IF he is shredded. They also all agreed that Phil was spot on.

It’s huge for the judges…

839

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:

[quote]niksamaras wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
ifbbpro.com/results/2013-olympia-scorecards-3/

Like I said, Phil won both rounds unanimously (5+5=10). According to all judges, Kai didn’t do better during the finals. In other words, he didn’t lose the contest during the prejudging. In fact, he even lost a point (10+11=21). Wolf improved a bit during the finals (15+14=29).[/quote]

Ok, from this what I get is this: he came shredded in the finals, no extra points. He was soft on first day, no points lost. SO, let’s just say that they want phil to win for the next couple of years, so we won’t have to go through all this again next year.

GO KAI![/quote]

I don’t think this is a fair assessment. Kai knows what he needs to do, for years now he has been told, and for years now he doesn’t do it.

[/quote]

x2, kai never seems to work on his weak points which for me are his big waist and shit insertions on his arms.

840

[quote]Cprimero wrote:

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:

[quote]niksamaras wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
ifbbpro.com/results/2013-olympia-scorecards-3/

Like I said, Phil won both rounds unanimously (5+5=10). According to all judges, Kai didn’t do better during the finals. In other words, he didn’t lose the contest during the prejudging. In fact, he even lost a point (10+11=21). Wolf improved a bit during the finals (15+14=29).[/quote]

Ok, from this what I get is this: he came shredded in the finals, no extra points. He was soft on first day, no points lost. SO, let’s just say that they want phil to win for the next couple of years, so we won’t have to go through all this again next year.

GO KAI![/quote]

I don’t think this is a fair assessment. Kai knows what he needs to do, for years now he has been told, and for years now he doesn’t do it.

[/quote]

x2, kai never seems to work on his weak points which for me are his big waist and shit insertions on his arms.[/quote]

I think his weakest point are his traps. At this point he cannot really change his waist. Also he can’t really work on his insertions. That is something that is genetic.