I just wonder what Wolf’s back is going to look like. If it’s improved since last year, he’s got a good chance of placing well.
Mr.Jeannay: I think we can all agree that proof either of SEO use, or non-use isn’t something that anyone on these forums can provide. The whole sport of bodybuilding, and pretty much any sport, is going to be filled with rumors. This is just the nature of things (competitive arenas) in the 21st century. Anyone who chooses to whine about internet rumors, and armchair experts is clearly missing the big picture, and no matter how much they may wish it weren’t in its current state, sadly (in my opinion), this is the point it’s gotten to. Trying to act above other posters online like their talking about it is what is bringing everything down won’t change the actual state of affairs in real life (this comment isn’t directed at you Jeannay).
I’m not a fan of the use of oil, but I understand that it’s become a common practice at a certain level in the sport. The quote I think you were referring to may have been in another thread, where someone asked why there seemed to be a large amount of dislike for Heath this year (whereas there wasn’t such a perceptible feeling in past years). I offed up 2 possibilities; one being his behavior at last year’s Olympia finals and how some felt it was disrespectful to his competition, and the other being the very large contingent of fans who believe (whether founded or not!) that he has resorted to abusing SEO to a ridiculous degree within the last year or two.
Like I said above, no one on here can say with certainty that it’s a fact, but fans are fans, and in such a visual medium, where you can compare images from one contest to the next, from one year to the next, even from a couple of weeks to the next, you’re going to have people scrutinizing the hell out of things. Does it make them right? Nope, and no one has said that it does, but when you’ve got a serious lot of people all suspecting something, it’s hard not to at least consider the possibility. Everyone is entitled to form their own opinions.
SSC: You’re 100% right. I always say that the judges can only judge what they see, and I have no doubt that they are fully aware of all sorts of practices regularly used by the competitors onstage. Hell, if Momo hadn’t died of diuretics, Wayne DeMilia would never have instituted testing because otherwise it could possibly have been really bad for the sport ($$$). Or just look at the one Olympia in the early/mid 1980’s when they actually tested for PEDs. The IFBB brass saw the condition the guys came in (compared to previous years of course!) and knew they couldn’t continue the practice with regularity. I have a feeling that they’ve turned a blind eye for a while now because it hasn’t reached the point of being so insane looking that there’s no way they can sweep it under the rug. Is it inevitable that someone will go too far? It’s certainly possible. We’re all just going to have to wait and see.
Now,… predictions… 
Top 3 is a toughie, because I really think that any number of guys can truly step up and take it. So instead of trying to actually place them, I’ll just throw out a few names that I’m going to be watching with my thoughts on 'em.
JAY- I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again, Jay has one of the largest structures onstage. Yes, Ramy is a larger man when you consider height, but at 5’9, and an average contest weight of ~275 lbs, with the widest clavicles of anyone up there, when Jay is dialed in, all eyes are drawn to him. He’s already accomplished some amazing feats in his 20+ years competing, and being the underdog, combined with his always business like nature, leads me to feel that Jay hasn’t left any stone unturned. This year is personal for him, and he wants to go out (I suspect he’ll retire after this one) on top. He’s had too many controversial wins, and even as a fan I can say that I think he only really deserved two of his Olympia wins.
PHIL- The incumbent champ. I don’t think Phil brings the same unbeatable aura to the stage that Haney, Dorian and Coleman did. Still, He’s the yardstick from last year, and will always get first look in every round. His physique is symmetrical, flowing, and filled with all sorts of beautiful curves that truly make one consider bodybuilding as art. Conditioning wise, he’s going to be spot on. Heath doesn’t make mistakes, and while Kai did edge him in last year’s prejudging, I don’t think it was because of Phil being off. If Phil is going to win this year, and that’s a very good possibility, two things have to happen: Kai has to not be at his best condition-wise, and Jay has to not look better than he did in '09. Yes there are other dogs in the race, but I think Kai and Jay are Phil’s biggest obstacles. Phil knows Jay very well, and knows how good he can look. Phil also knows that after the prejudging in 2012, Kai was en route to winning the whole show. The fire’s been lit under his striated butt all year, so we’ll see in 6 days if what he’s done is enough.
KAI- Here’s a guy with all the tools he needs to win the title,… if you judge strictly by the prescribed criteria. Kai will never escape all the stories and rumors that plague him. People will get angry at me for writing this, but it’s true. I’m a fan though, make no doubt. The man has a beautiful physique, and despite having relatively graceful and flowing aesthetics (as opposed to being “blocky”), he still shows up with slabs of muscle just hanging off of him. So what continually allows the title to slip away? Conditioning IMO. If he had nailed it on the second day of last year’s contest, he’d be this year’s defending champ. I know he’s had an interesting year with all the “multiple-guru-nonsense” going on, but I hope he stays on track and holds it all together.
RAMY- Here’s the big unknown. Yes he won the Amateur Arnold securing a pro card, only to show up at his very first pro show (NY Pro this past May) and win. In the process, beating fan favorite Victor Martinez amongst a few other notables. This one contest made every stand up and take notice. Few are even predicting a top 3 placing at his very first Olympia. I’d certainly be very impressed with such a placing. Only Levrone and Yates have placed 2nd at their first Olympias. If memory serves, I believe Gustavo Badell (a favorite of mine in his heyday) placed 3rd at his first Olympia. BUT, and here’s the real issue,… no matter how well he did at the NYP, he wasn’t going up against the real top tier players in the game. Victor is a great bodybuilder, and I like the guy, but I think his chances of a top 5 placing aren’t really too good anymore. As such, using this as the sole basis for Ramy’s possible placings isn’t the best proof. I was at the NY Pro, 5th row, and lemme tell you that size wise, he’s a definite monster. Conditioning AT THAT SHOW was great. Can he bring it together again just 3-4 months later? And if so, will he look as big next to Jay and Kai, both ~275 lbs, and much much shorter?
RHODEN- I love this guy’s physique. If ever there was a perfect blend of size and shape, it’s this guy. He’s certainly improved soooo much in the last year or so, and did it without falling into the usual trap of blowing up and destroying your lines. Earlier in the year, everyone was predicting his top 3 placing (he placed 3rd last year I believe). Lately, people seem to have forgotten about just how good he was at his last outing. He hung in there with Kai and Phil, but how will he fare when larger opponents such as Jay and Ramy are next to him? A competitor will either rise or fall based upon who they’re placed next to on stage. I have faith he’ll fall in the top 5 or 6, but top 3 is a dicey bet this year.
S
Little sub-plot that I will be watching: Dennis Wolf vs. Branch Warren. I like Wolf 1000x better but who knows. I agree with most everyone else that neither of them will make the top 6.
[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:
[quote]Bauber wrote:
[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:
[quote]BigJJ88 wrote:
[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
Maybe it’s just his genetics (doubtful) but the round “puffed up” bulbous look is what I think people are referring too with their SEO talk.[/quote]
Nope, no synthol at all…;)[/quote]
Look at his newest video on the last page. Again, I’m not saying he doesn’t use synthol as I have no idea, but I see no signs of it in his newest video. [/quote]
. In the Phil Heath thread a year or two ago a picture of his calf with a golfball of oil was posted and yet people still didn’t believe.
[/quote]
How is what appears to be a “golfball of oil” indication of SEO?? I’ve had sterile abscesses from local igf injections that look exactly the same or worse. Proper administration of SEO is more likely to cause pooling of oil around the ankle//elbow as a sign of SEO use, than the symptoms you described.
EDIT:The majority of guys are going to be using SEO in the offseason, REGARDLESS of whether they come into the show with any oil left in them. Depending on the oil used, you can have full clearance in 6 weeks or less, using year round allows for more pliable fascia and better muscle growth. Dunno why everyone cries so hard about it, its probably one of the few legal things a bodybuilder can do.[/quote]
Interesting, what more do you know about SEO?
[/quote]
Well what jj says is exactly my understanding. Good friend who I know that is competing for a pro card come may uses in the offseason just as jj has said. The SEO they use supposedly lays evenly across the muscle, so you do not get the lumpy look anymore. And like he said it helps to stretch the fascia, but from what I have heard hurts like a son of a bitch.
And when dieting (according to my close friend) your body will metabolize all the seo oil looking for energy anyways at a fairly quick rate.[/quote]
Thanks for the response man! Do you ever think you would do SEO?[/quote]
I personally would prefer to stay away from it, but if it was going to give me an edge and a better chance of winning and furthering my career… Hell yes I would do it.
Like jj said it is cheap, painful, and extremely time consuming. Plus, can lead to some pretty nasty infections/ abscesses. But it does work. And I think it is what combined with genetics gives that insane rounded muscle belly look. I prefer the more stone cut physiques like Branch and Dorian though myself.
[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
Hope this works. Dude is looking huge. Jay looks great, but he is seriously outsized by Kai nowadays. Kai literally moved to another level.
They say his great gift is his ability to eat a LOT of food. [/quote]
Really like this new look. Head shaved, one pony tail left. As silly as it sounds it might help making him look a bit different this year and get better looked at by the judges…
He seems even more massive than before…
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Mr.Jeannay: I think we can all agree that proof either of SEO use, or non-use isn’t something that anyone on these forums can provide. The whole sport of bodybuilding, and pretty much any sport, is going to be filled with rumors. This is just the nature of things (competitive arenas) in the 21st century. Anyone who chooses to whine about internet rumors, and armchair experts is clearly missing the big picture, and no matter how much they may wish it weren’t in its current state, sadly (in my opinion), this is the point it’s gotten to. Trying to act above other posters online like their talking about it is what is bringing everything down won’t change the actual state of affairs in real life (this comment isn’t directed at you Jeannay).
S[/quote]
Hmmm, so discussing how people are acting like rumors are truth when they don’t really know is now whining?
I have to disagree that this means people are missing the point. Like other posters have written, we want there to be a lot less baseless rumor spreading as if it is true and everyone else is dumb for not believing it also.
SSC wrote this:
[quote]I get what you’re saying Stu, but it’s this. ^
If one doesn’t like someone’s physique, for whatever reason, fine. (Hell, I’ve had to back up my like for Branch for years now.) But asserting that someone who is known to have ridiculous muscle bellies and insertions is or isn’t on any more SEO than anyone else - without anything to back that up with, is just ignorant and makes me wonder why they’re posting in this thread in the first place.
(Besides, if someone IS that noticeably “full of oil” or whatever, judges will judge that accordingly as has been done in competitions past.)[/quote]
and I agree with every word of it.
None of us should be ok with that.
From Ramy’s FB
"There’s is a lot of talk going on regarding Ramy not being able to get the quality and separation since he’s been only training for a few years now. It’s true that young muscle shows different from older quality muscle but we worked hard on it and changed a few things up to speed up the progress that I would like to share with you guys.
Picture on the left was in May 2013 New York pro, on stage full and ready.
Picture on the right is September 2013 6 days out from the Mr Olympia totally depleted and flat. Can you see what the team is cooking?
We won’t stop improving and I promise you guys it will only get better from here."
From Jay’s FB
I feel if Ramy keeps improving, he is going to be unbeatable in a few years. Now this Olympia I am not sure. I think he will definitely be top 6, but there are just too many seasoned beasts coming into this one.
[quote]Bauber wrote:
I feel if Ramy keeps improving, he is going to be unbeatable in a few years. Now this Olympia I am not sure. I think he will definitely be top 6, but there are just too many seasoned beasts coming into this one.[/quote]
It will be interesting to see how some of the younger guys like Centopani and Cedric deal with him in the future.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Hmmm, so discussing how people are acting like rumors are truth when they don’t really know is now whining?
I have to disagree that this means people are missing the point. Like other posters have written, we want there to be a lot less baseless rumor spreading as if it is true and everyone else is dumb for not believing it also.[/quote]
People who believe something (whether it’s rumor or fact depends on who you ask) are fully entitled to do so, and if you’re discussing IFBB bodybuilding in the year 2013, everything that’s been discussed in here is part of the current landscape.
If you (for example) started writing that Phil was totally SEO free, despite the fact that so many other pros dabbling here and there (and I think we’re all mature enough to acknowledge this), and other people dismissed your stance as a rumor, asking you to stop spreading such blatant lies because you couldn’t really back it up either, they’d be just as correct as you are in your statement.
I understand your feelings, but you can’t just ignore something that’s become so commonplace in the sport, and is certainly at least possible that there’s some truth to it.
(And now the ‘real reply’ to the Olympia thread (lol):
I’m liking the latest pics of Ramy’s quads. No doubt, if not this year, he’s got the potential to be a definite threat to the title. I’ve heard people saying that he may not look as crisp as he did at the NYP because peaking twice in a relatively short time isn’t always an easy task, but if I were to go simply on just that recent image, I’d say that he’s going to cruise in looking tight on game day.
S
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
If you (for example) started writing that Phil was totally SEO free, despite the fact that so many other pros dabbling here and there (and I think we’re all mature enough to acknowledge this), and other people dismissed your stance as a rumor, asking you to stop spreading such blatant lies because you couldn’t really back it up either, they’d be just as correct as you are in your statement.
[/quote]
But, the blatant problem is that I am NOT saying any such thing. You don’t see me commenting on what these guys are using exactly because I wouldn’t be ridiculous enough to act like I know the man one on one.
I am very aware of the extents some of these guys go to. You don’t see me running around trying to act like I was helping out with ass injections.
You are acting like it is ok to spread baseless rumor (like Phil has forearm injections).
It isn’t. It is pretty feminine though.
oh shit
.
[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
Hope this works. Dude is looking huge. Jay looks great, but he is seriously outsized by Kai nowadays. Kai literally moved to another level.
They say his great gift is his ability to eat a LOT of food. [/quote]
Really like this new look. Head shaved, one pony tail left. As silly as it sounds it might help making him look a bit different this year and get better looked at by the judges…
He seems even more massive than before…[/quote]
Yeah, better than the going bald but still trying to hold on to your hair look. Like Jerry Rice before he finally shaved his head. It’s like, “dude you’re the best ever, just shave your head, those braids are kind of stupid anyway, YOU’RE MAKING A FOOL OUT OF YOURSELF, COME ON MAN.” Then he shaved it and I forgot all about it untill just now. Haha.
[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:
oh shit[/quote]
I know, where’s the facial hair? Totally ruined his physique now.
[quote]Pretzel Logic wrote:
[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:
oh shit[/quote]
I know, where’s the facial hair? Totally ruined his physique now. [/quote]
Don’t you worry, 5 day of growth will be perfect for 'mirin at the Olympia ;).
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
If you (for example) started writing that Phil was totally SEO free, despite the fact that so many other pros dabbling here and there (and I think we’re all mature enough to acknowledge this), and other people dismissed your stance as a rumor, asking you to stop spreading such blatant lies because you couldn’t really back it up either, they’d be just as correct as you are in your statement.
[/quote]
But, the blatant problem is that I am NOT saying any such thing. You don’t see me commenting on what these guys are using exactly because I wouldn’t be ridiculous enough to act like I know the man one on one.
I am very aware of the extents some of these guys go to. You don’t see me running around trying to act like I was helping out with ass injections.
You are acting like it is ok to spread baseless rumor (like Phil has forearm injections).
It isn’t. It is pretty feminine though.[/quote]
The most insecure, whiney, obnoxious and full of shit poster on this site calling someone else “feminine” is fucking priceless.
Cutler looks bananas.
There is an awesome pic of Wolf I think 1-2 weeks out, where he’s flexing his arm… its massive. And he’s smiling!
Wolf is my favorite, like to see him get top 5. Kai is my favorite for “realistic” chance at winning.
Phil has an awesome shape to his muscles. I am especially envious of his chest, it has that bulbous hanging look like Arny’s - note I’m not saying he has a chest like the Oak, but that it has an awesome shape like the Oak’s.
Everyone in the pro’s uses Synth. Its not worth debating. As stated if it will give you an edge, people will do it. They’ve improved the protocols, which is why its not as noticable these days. As a poster said - effective, cheap, and time consuming. Lots of stretching and working the muscle, but that’s neither here nor there.
1 week out. I’ve blocked off my weekend to watch it. Totally excited to see the show. Folks look bound and determined - but who will “cross that line?”
