[quote]theuofh wrote:
[quote]VinceFTW wrote:
Could anyone please tell me what ATG is? And also the difference between powerlifting and olympic squats? Is it the foot stance?[/quote]
This is ass to grass. [/quote]
HOLY CRAP, I didn’t even know that was possible. My back and hips are cringing just thinking about trying to get that low.
DISCLAIMER: I’m not implying atg is bad for you given the proper mobility and flexibility in the appropriate areas.
OP, I would keep power squatting and learn how to front squat, that is even harder than olympic back squats, and harder to fuck up the technique, work on your hip and hamstring flexibility and hip mobility.
If you want to squat slightly deeper than currently possible wear weightlifting shoes.
Deep front squats and heavy powerlifting squats will cover your squat bases.
powerlifting squat…
-wide stance
-start movement by throwing the hips back
-keep the shins (almost) perpendicular to the floor.
-hit parallel and drive up with the hips.
ATG Back Squat:
–Knees pass the toes
–Hips travel back a little bit.
–use less weight, full ROM,
–EXPLODE off the bottom
Front Squat
–Torso has to remain straight.
–Knees pass the toes a little more.
–Hips travel back even less.
–Upper back has to fight more to remain straight.
–uses less weight than ATG backsquat, more emphasis on the quad.
–EXPLODE off the bottom
[quote]buddaboy wrote:
OP, I would keep power squatting and learn how to front squat, that is even harder than olympic back squats, and harder to fuck up the technique, work on your hip and hamstring flexibility and hip mobility.
If you want to squat slightly deeper than currently possible wear weightlifting shoes.
Deep front squats and heavy powerlifting squats will cover your squat bases.
[/quote]
A powerlifitng squat is NOT an atg squat (front, back or overhead). The movement is different, and thus they hit the muscle groups of the back, hamstring, quads, glutes, etc, etc in very different ways.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
[quote]theuofh wrote:
[quote]VinceFTW wrote:
Could anyone please tell me what ATG is? And also the difference between powerlifting and olympic squats? Is it the foot stance?[/quote]
This is ass to grass. [/quote]
HOLY CRAP, I didn’t even know that was possible. My back and hips are cringing just thinking about trying to get that low.
DISCLAIMER: I’m not implying atg is bad for you given the proper mobility and flexibility in the appropriate areas.[/quote]
He did a heavy Clean and when it landed on him it buried him. He was fine, he just a got a really good stretch. Nevertheless missed the lift.
One thing with the Oly squat that confuses me is whether to break at the knees and let my torso ‘fall’ inbetween them and explode or do I push my hips back first than let the knees bend basically the same as the PL squat except with a narrower stance and high bar position.
[quote]Neospartan wrote:
[quote]buddaboy wrote:
OP, I would keep power squatting and learn how to front squat, that is even harder than olympic back squats, and harder to fuck up the technique, work on your hip and hamstring flexibility and hip mobility.
If you want to squat slightly deeper than currently possible wear weightlifting shoes.
Deep front squats and heavy powerlifting squats will cover your squat bases.
[/quote]
A powerlifitng squat is NOT an atg squat (front, back or overhead). The movement is different, and thus they hit the muscle groups of the back, hamstring, quads, glutes, etc, etc in very different ways.
[/quote]
I didn’t say it was, maybe I didn’t make myself clear, what I meant was if you incorporate the front squat into your routine, wearing weightlifting shoes to go deeper if you feel the need to (to me a front squat is deep, I front squat below parallel) and keep the powerlifting squat to, you will be front squatting deep and power squatting regularly, thus covering both the squat bases.
I do 5/3/1 and use the front squat as an assistance exercise, so I’m front squatting at least once a week and power squatting once a week to, for mw this works- as in I’m getting stronger and bigger, though size isn’t really my goal I always appreciate muscle.
[quote]buddaboy wrote:
…
I didn’t say it was, maybe I didn’t make myself clear, what I meant was if you incorporate the front squat into your routine, wearing weightlifting shoes to go deeper if you feel the need to (to me a front squat is deep, I front squat below parallel) and keep the powerlifting squat to, you will be front squatting deep and power squatting regularly, thus covering both the squat bases.
…
[/quote]
Ahh… I get it now, and I agree with you.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
…break at the knees and let my torso ‘fall’ inbetween them and explode…[/quote]
check out this clip:
[quote]Neospartan wrote:
[quote]buddaboy wrote:
…
I didn’t say it was, maybe I didn’t make myself clear, what I meant was if you incorporate the front squat into your routine, wearing weightlifting shoes to go deeper if you feel the need to (to me a front squat is deep, I front squat below parallel) and keep the powerlifting squat to, you will be front squatting deep and power squatting regularly, thus covering both the squat bases.
…
[/quote]
Ahh… I get it now, and I agree with you. [/quote]
Cool, to give credit where its due, I got this from Murandameat and Hungry4more (who both practice what they preach) and just programmed it into my 5/3/1.
I appreciate the insights guys.
I will probably not start w/ the front squats until i’m done w/ the back squat cycle i’m on now. I have a few questions though:
I always had the impression an oly back squat one was completely vertical but it looks like from some of these videos these guys, as in the 97kg guy do have some forward lean, not as much as a powerlift, but still some, is this correct form or is he off just because this is a max?
Bouncing out of the hole: What are your thoughts on bouncing out of the hole?
Knees out to sides or forward: While I have a close stance, I have been pushing the knees out to the sides(i angle the feet roughly 30 degrees out)… i believe this is what people refer to as squatting between the legs, or something like that. Would it be advised to do this or should I let the knees just go forwards, right over the toes?
Mobility ain’t great I’ve been stretching every day the hip flexors, quads, hams, and doing that prying stretch. I still make the effort to go all the way down though, regardless of the lower back round.
^
I don’t know how to answer your questions thoroughly but continuing to go down while your lower back curves is horrible for your joints and unless you’re just one of those people who can constantly abuse their body without injury (which are very few) you’ll probably end up hurt sooner or later.
For now, I would advise just going down as deep as you can with your back arched while doing separate mobility and flexibility drills.
[quote]Oreillbc wrote:
I appreciate the insights guys.
I will probably not start w/ the front squats until i’m done w/ the back squat cycle i’m on now. I have a few questions though:
I always had the impression an oly back squat one was completely vertical but it looks like from some of these videos these guys, as in the 97kg guy do have some forward lean, not as much as a powerlift, but still some, is this correct form or is he off just because this is a max?
Bouncing out of the hole: What are your thoughts on bouncing out of the hole?
Knees out to sides or forward: While I have a close stance, I have been pushing the knees out to the sides(i angle the feet roughly 30 degrees out)… i believe this is what people refer to as squatting between the legs, or something like that. Would it be advised to do this or should I let the knees just go forwards, right over the toes?
Mobility ain’t great I’ve been stretching every day the hip flexors, quads, hams, and doing that prying stretch. I still make the effort to go all the way down though, regardless of the lower back round. [/quote]
1- Correct, there is a slight angle of the torso forward. But not as dramatic as PLsquat.
2- “Bouncing” is the most overrated excuse people who don’t squat ATG use to not squat deep, or take credit away from someone who squat deeper and more than them.
------rant over.
You gotta understand when going down you do it in a controlled fashion, you don’t dive bomb. But once at the bottom you EXPLODE up. Haters call that “bouncing”.
In reality “bouncing” occurs when you catch a really heavy clean. The weight and impact of the bar rocks your bottom position a little bit.
Look at this clean…
3- You are over thinking this… Squatting ATG is not rocket science. If your feet are pointed out your knees will go where you feet are pointed, staying right on top of them. WHEN YOU STRETCH, however, you push your knees out to stretch those muscles around your hip and groin.
–IF you flexibility is bad… Stretch and squat as deep as you can twice a week or more (alternate between atg front and back squat). Start with LIGHT weight and go for reps 8-10. Since you are young and healthy in about 2 weeks you should be used to it (that’s the average, but most of the young guys are good to go in 1 week).
–Also, when you start out your lower back will round at the bottom that is why you must star with LIGHT weights. After your body is used to it, then the lower back rounding will be minimal, and you start going for heavy sets of 5reps.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
^
I don’t know how to answer your questions thoroughly but continuing to go down while your lower back curves is horrible for your joints and unless you’re just one of those people who can constantly abuse their body without injury (which are very few) you’ll probably end up hurt sooner or later.
For now, I would advise just going down as deep as you can with your back arched while doing separate mobility and flexibility drills.[/quote]
you guys gotta remember something… the weights you use when you go ATG are LESS than the weights you use when you PLsquat. So the danger of fucking yourself up because your forms breaks down, or you miss a step in your walk out are still there, but to a lesser degree and lesser severity.
You’ve been given some great advice, just to throw my 2 cents in…
squat as deep as your flexibility allows, most people, myself included weren’t anywhere near flexible enough to squat rock bottom without doing specific stretching exercises. If your stretching progresses as you squat deeper you’ll probably struggle to add weight- if that makes sense.
E.G say you can squat to parallel with 300LB, and over the next 8 weeks you develop the flexibility to squat say 8 inches deeper, you may not have not have increased the weight, or only increased it slightly, but by going deeper you’ll have made the exercise significantly harder.
I would personally recommend you practice squatting deeper with the front squat because its much harder to perform the exercise incorrectly or round your back, as I said previously wearing weightlifting shoes or elevating your heels by an inch will allow some extra depth, though I wouldn’t rely on this method indefinitely, its better to eventually develop the flexibility to do a deep front squat in bare feet, once you can unless your an olympic lifter you probably wont want or feel the need to do olympic back squats, at least I dont, but I don’t compete so I’m speaking from the perspective of a mediocre ‘back yard’ trainee.
Good luck
[quote]Oreillbc wrote:
I appreciate the insights guys.
I will probably not start w/ the front squats until i’m done w/ the back squat cycle i’m on now. I have a few questions though:
I always had the impression an oly back squat one was completely vertical but it looks like from some of these videos these guys, as in the 97kg guy do have some forward lean, not as much as a powerlift, but still some, is this correct form or is he off just because this is a max?
Bouncing out of the hole: What are your thoughts on bouncing out of the hole?
Knees out to sides or forward: While I have a close stance, I have been pushing the knees out to the sides(i angle the feet roughly 30 degrees out)… i believe this is what people refer to as squatting between the legs, or something like that. Would it be advised to do this or should I let the knees just go forwards, right over the toes?
Mobility ain’t great I’ve been stretching every day the hip flexors, quads, hams, and doing that prying stretch. I still make the effort to go all the way down though, regardless of the lower back round. [/quote]