Solid yup. HIT had a long history of talking about great results that no one could actually observe. “We build strength: we don’t demonstrate it”. Sure…
I think there’s a lot of cool stuff from HIT, and Dr. Ken was the man, but taken too far it gets super silly. Although that tends to become true of any system I suppose.
As I pointed out, Darden has rejected HIT in his recent articles, instead embracing metabolic conditioning. The validity of my observation (or the lack thereof) has nothing to do with HIT.
Edited to add that @antiquity seems to be suggesting that his experience could also be counted as validation of metabolic conditioning as an effective approach to muscledom.
To clarify, I was just agreeing with the observation regarding the membership of that particular subforum and, in turn, my own experience with the HIT crowd. I don’t know enough about inroading/metabolic conditioning to be able to comment on it.
I think it’s effective for all around athleticism - I think Pwn mentions his best results were from Deep Water - decently high volume with ball busting intensity.
Darden’s (new) methods are nothing like Pwn’s BTM methodology - it seems like he’s advocating low volume, fairly low intensity, and low frequency, letting metabolic conditioning drive growth, whereas Pwn’s and antiquity’s methods, as well as @alpha’s programs and Jim’s Krypteia keep lifting at the forefront and use the conditioning as a bonus.
Disclaimer: I might be misrepresenting everybody in this situation. But IMO none of the methodologies mentioned even come close to comparing to Darden’s new non-HIT methods.
Well, if his new stuff produces results like his old stuff I think we can guess its effectiveness. Bold claims seem to hold strong though.
It is good that you added this, because other than low volume (which I acknowledged above), you have badly misrepresented what Darden advocates of late, and (IMO) significantly undersold the extent to which it dovetails with what Pwn described above.
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People of T Nation, don’t get me wrong–I’m no Darden fanboy. I’m simply pointing out that one of the most successful T Nation members (Pwn) trains in a non-traditional (from a BBing perspective) manner that bears a striking resemblance to that advocated by a prominent coach who recently had a ‘road to Damascus’ experience regarding how best to train.
Maybe pwn IS Darden.
I think you could even throw Alpha and the way he used to train in this category too (and Waterbury, lots of his workouts evolved towards a circuit style ABC of 3 big lifts with little rest). Alpha was HUGE on super sets and giant sets, and metcon style stuff and his results speak for themselves. Certainly seems to be “something” to the idea if lots of successful people are stumbling on it.
Meanwhile: daily work
Other data points to consider (apologies to any that have been covered already):
Brian Alsruhes giant set training
Dan Johns prescription of barbell complexes for mass
Yup. And multiple conditioning workouts a day.
In another note.
Hit 172lbs today. I’ve fluctuated down to that number before but I was actually a bit under, so definitely made it.
I can see my abs, though not really in this picture; and I’ve hit lifetime PRs and or post-appendectomy PRs several times in the past few weeks.
Snd my elbow is healthy.
And I’m going to get that MFing 135lb press.
So its been a good 2021 for me in a variety of ways.
Actually what you are describing sounds like milos to me. His training is circuits with many exercises, light weight each done for a hard set and with no rest. And for the record he’s worked with a lot of top pros. It just turns into basically one forever set with tiny weights and a crazy burn and pump.
This is also similar to how I run my accessory work now. In the interest of time and reserving the main effort for my strength work.
All the routines or training methods that @T3hPwnisher has success with have one main thing in common… Its him thats doing them. I think more focus should be on the traits that he has rather than the actual training methods.
Yeah, we’re gonna have to completely disagree. I’ve read that article, and seen the 30-10-30 workouts that Darden is first and foremost pushing right now, and they do not line up with what I’ve seen mentioned. What somebody writes in an article and what they actually put out in terms of a program to apply it (a program called “Extreme HIT”), are two different things. As I said in my last article, Alpha’s stuff applies more here than Darden’s stuff. I think you’re overselling the extent to which it dovetails.
Big part for sure. Again: this is how I’m approaching Building the Monolith, but that doesn’t mean it’s how I approach training. I’ve done Super Squats: 1 big set, lots of resting. I’ve done max effort: lots of resting, heavy weights, minimal reps. I’ve done Deep Water: lots of reps, rest times or sets reduce. I’ve stolen from @alpha, winged it on my own, run 5/3/1 programs NOT in this manner, etc. When I travel and I’m away from family, I’ll have epic 2+ hour workouts.
It’s why I kept emphasizing exertion/effort. That’s been the key for me. And as I get older, I like to use little tricks that make it that I can give full effort WITHOUT having to use full weight. Being fatigued is one of those tricks, along with stealing from Meadows and doing small work before the big work.
This is a connection I had not made, and now that you’ve pointed it out, it seems almost painfully obvious. With regards to training style and success, he (Alpha) is Pwn’s big brother, and another guy I have always dismissed as a one-off. Thanks for making the connection for me.
I don’t know much about him (have watched a video or two). Again, someone I have dismissed up to this point. Thanks.
Edit: Actually no, I’ve never seen his stuff before (had him mixed up with someone else). Just watched the vid you posted–that was nuts.
Agree that this is a big point of departure between them.
I can live with that.
All of these lines of converging evidence are forcing me to reconsider what I’ve always held to be true vis a vis training.
As an aside: I want to emphasize that when I say I had “dismissed” someone, what I mean is I had chalked their success regarding hypertrophy to great genetics–that is, I had assumed they got huge not because of their specific training method, but because they would have gotten huge no matter how they trained. In no way do I mean I dismissed someone in any other sense (much less in the pejorative sense the word connotes).
Yes. @anna_5588 has developed a sudden need to quickly and easily run a half marathon, and I suspect it has much to do with @T3hPwnisher’s Saturday race. However, from where I stand watching, Pwn’s exceptionalism goes far beyond his dedication and training methods, though those are indeed exceptional, to something intrinsically adaptable about his makeup. It’s like he’s built to thrive. Most people are not past a certain point of stress to their systems.
It’s remarkable and awe-inspiring, while offering us all a front row seat to a level of dedication and smart approach that is instructive regardless of innate capacity. But it’s not going to be reproducible for all of us.
no. I’ve had that goal for years. I’ve just neglected it for a while thinking I could still do it.
The recent trend of ppl on here (not specifically pwn) running had me reconsider it
I feel bad how much I’ve side-tracked the transformation thread here, but I also thought this was curious enough to discuss. I think the major thing I bring to the table in this regard is basically a lacking regard for self-preservation. It’s how I blew out my ACL: the sheer idea of trying to protect myself during a yoke carry never once entered my mind. I was going to get the yoke across the line no matter what. When I run, it hurts the whole time and I hate it…but that’s it. In training, I’m in the redline often and that’s cool. Similar to how people are blown away that I never drink anything when I train.
I think people can thrive more when they are willing to take the risks that reap the great rewards, but they DO come with risks. I’m just at a point where I’m at peace with those risks.
