I’m training Westside style for a while now and I have a question about DE squat work. It feels easy to do it as the weight is fairly light compared to ME day and I don’t feel it helps at all.
I mean, it should help me get explosive on my squat but I don’t feel any carryover compared to when I trained with higher reps.
Is it normal to notice no change/carryover from DE work ?
Most people do DE wrong and they don’t realize it. To elaborate, if you can squat 400lbs then you should be applying 400lbs of force to the bar even though it might only be 200lbs. This seems to be difficult for most people to do. Most people apply just enough to get it up at an ok speed. For me, DE work is sometime more demanding then ME work. I have left the gym with my legs shaking plenty of times.
[quote]Pemdas wrote:
To elaborate, if you can squat 400lbs then you should be applying 400lbs of force to the bar even though it might only be 200lbs.[/quote]
I understand the concept, and I think the bar comes up pretty fast, well, as fast as I possibly can…but afterward, it just feels like a freaking light training.
I might get back to what worked for me and try DE later on…
You may want to consider repition work rather than dynamic work. Might be better suited to your goals and training.
[quote]MrZsasz wrote:
You may want to consider repition work rather than dynamic work. Might be better suited to your goals and training. [/quote]
Very true.
My question to the original poster would be: Are you using bands or chains?
Both of those can teach you to accelerate faster because, well, you have to.
I find DE work with straight weight to be hard to keep speed up.
[quote]EmileZola wrote:
I might get back to what worked for me and try DE later on…[/quote]
I think that sounds good. If you have an alternative that is/was working for you, do that. If not, teh people who’ve suggested RE work have good points
I had the same problem with DE work and straight weight. I just didn’t see much carryover to from it. It wasn’t until I added bands and chains that I really started to see the benefit.
Pemdas is right, you’ve got to apply maximum force, even to sub max weights.
One thing I have noticed is that my joints tend to get beaten up by too much DE work with accomodating resistance, so I cycle it as follows:
2 weeks DE w/Bands
2 weeks RE straight weight
2 weeks DE w/Chains
2 weeks RE straight weight
…repeat…
What kind of %s are you using. If you are using strait weight I might go as high as 70%
Speed work did dick for me. It just made by shoulders hurt. I’m still all about some max effort work with rotating ME exercises. However, I scrapped my two DE training days a while back in favor of one or two grab-bag days. It may be overhead lifts, olympic lifts.
I almost always throw some heavy upper back work in there. Lately, it has been a bodybuilding style approach using high reps. I feel like this has helped me address my needs a lot better than strict adherence to the gospel of Louie Simmons.
[quote]Pinto wrote:
Speed work did dick for me. It just made by shoulders hurt. I’m still all about some max effort work with rotating ME exercises. However, I scrapped my two DE training days a while back in favor of one or two grab-bag days. It may be overhead lifts, olympic lifts. I almost always throw some heavy upper back work in there. Lately, it has been a bodybuilding style approach using high reps. I feel like this has helped me address my needs a lot better than strict adherence to the gospel of Louie Simmons.[/quote]
Man, I applaud you. Something didn’t work and you found something that did. Thats the way to do it. You are ahead of 99.9% of most people. It is very common for people not to speed bench for the exact reason you stated. I also think that it is less important for the upperbody and if you look at WSB it doesn’t have any upper body speed days. I do think that lower body explosiveness is important, but it doesn’t have to be speed squats. It could box jumps or Olympic lifts, which I see that you have been doing.
I’m going to switch back to RE work, which was adding pounds after pounds on my lifts.
I was doing my work with straight weight since my gym is not so hardcore.
Thanks to all for your replies.
[quote]EmileZola wrote:
I’m going to switch back to RE work, which was adding pounds after pounds on my lifts.
I was doing my work with straight weight since my gym is not so hardcore.
Thanks to all for your replies.[/quote]
If you were making progress with that then you don’t need to change! 
— at least until you stop seeing progress then.
[quote]Pinto wrote:
Speed work did dick for me. It just made by shoulders hurt. I’m still all about some max effort work with rotating ME exercises. However, I scrapped my two DE training days a while back in favor of one or two grab-bag days. It may be overhead lifts, olympic lifts.
I almost always throw some heavy upper back work in there. Lately, it has been a bodybuilding style approach using high reps. I feel like this has helped me address my needs a lot better than strict adherence to the gospel of Louie Simmons.[/quote]
HERESY!!! You’ve received a warning for not blindly following Louie and elite. Repent now or you’ll be forever doomed to the confines of fitness hell.
actually louie reccomends higher rep work at some times, and re days, hell he’d be the first to tell you “Why the fuck are you doing it if it doesn’t work?”
that said, as far as lower body day, i will do de squats but i honestly get NO carryover from it unless i use some accomodating resistance bands, chains, something. so you might want to try that. It’s hard to get the “FASTER” feeling w/o it. It’s not just the super strong who need to use accomodating resistance imo it’s also people who are already naturally fast. that seems to be you (and usually is with a lot of lighter guys) or maybe you can just use more than 50% of your max play with a bit and find what works for YOU (though it seems to be RE work so go back 2 that if it fits ur goals)
also i got a LOT more usefulness out of jum training. Jump on boxes, off boxes, weighted jumps, etc. Weighted jumps the bar alone can cause a lot of improvement. you dont realize that 45# is a whole helluva lot to be jumping with.
and because i dont bench much, i use 1 arm jerks as my ‘de’ movement but increase the % used, (not 50% de, more like 80%) because its a naturally fast movement but im focusing on bar speed.
Bands really brought DE movement alive for me. Otherwise, got great results from RE work on upper body.
Louie says if your max strength is poor but speed is good then you should be doing DE work with about 70%, but if speed is bad and strength is good as low as 30% might be better.
That said, Speed squats/deads kill my back like nothing else, i dont know if im doing em wrong but they trash my back and leave me gasping for breath by the end of it. i think it is possible my back is weak.
I just started Westside last week and rather then DE days I do Olympic lifts TH and upper body rep work on Fri. So far I really like the Olympic lifts and I’m having someone help me on form tomorrow. My upper back was quite sore last week.
When it gets warmer outside I want to add things like keg throws and sled dragging as well as other strongman kind of work.
This just seems like a thread where anyone with even the slightest amount of westside knowledge can come onto and say “Louie says this… Louie says that…”.
Lolz.
If your max squat is 400 lbs and you’re squatting 200 lbs with 400 lbs of force, how do you not catch air? Sorry if it’s a stupid question.
[quote]rmexico wrote:
If your max squat is 400 lbs and you’re squatting 200 lbs with 400 lbs of force, how do you not catch air? Sorry if it’s a stupid question.[/quote]
Three things. One, with bands you definitly won’t catch air. Two, if your not pulling the bar into your back hard it will hop off a bit. Three, when I squat it is not really an up/down motion. The main thrust of the lift is pulling my hips through. Imagine taking a rubber stick and bending it in half and then letting it go. My squat is more like that than say a spring. Sometime I will come up on to my toes a bit.