[quote]tveddy wrote:
The people with the biggest arms in the world dont do any direct arm work
Exhibit A
http://www.methodsofhealing.com/files/2010/08/obese-women.jpg[/quote]
Nonesense. I bet that took literally thousands if not hundreds of thousands of fork and soda can/bottle curls to get where those two are.
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
Greg Valentino would be envious of that arms.[/quote]
You mean THAT isnt Greg?
*double checks[/quote]
It might’ve been Daniel Furlan from Brazil
[quote]solidkhalid wrote:
That Chad dude is annoying as hell, IMO.[/quote]
agreed
Haha Chaddy boy REALLY needs to change his display pic on here. Looks like a toddler about to have a tantrum.
Sorry Chad, love ya man.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
[quote]tveddy wrote:
The people with the biggest arms in the world dont do any direct arm work
Exhibit A
http://www.methodsofhealing.com/files/2010/08/obese-women.jpg[/quote]
Nonesense. I bet that took literally thousands if not hundreds of thousands of fork and soda can/bottle curls to get where those two are.[/quote]
Those heifers may have used a feed bag. it keeps from expending valuable calories by moving your arms.
I used to be on the “no direct arm work” bandwagon, as a young OLer and thrower i did very very little if any direct arm work, and I had pretty big arms.
I was also FAT.
people who do tons of direct arm work but slack on heavy compound movements could benefit from more rows, presses and cleans, and vise versa.
I especially need to add in more direct arm work if i want my arms to grow at this stage in my life because I am so weak now.
when i was throwing nearly 400lbs over my head I stimulated a lot more triceps than I do now with a paltry 185lbs.
I will say this though, if you are an overweight guy, like myself…total body type routines and increase training frequency will help lean you out which will in turn make your arms ollk a lot bigger relatively speaking.
[quote]RampantBadger wrote:
http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_volume_ladder_smart_bomb[/quote]
not sure I get why you are linking this. the article is on the front page of the main website, and it is just yet another retooling repackaging of Poliquin’s German body comp training, super setting upper and lower big compound exercises for high volume.
Poliquin probably got the idea from somebody else as well.
high volume total body workouts is going to burn a shitload of calories, especially if you use big compound movements, like OL’s , presses, rows, and squats.
if you want to look more like a competitive BBer, you had better get your diet dialed in, and train in body-part splits.
If you want to be leaner and meaner, the latest Waterbury article might help, I agree if that was your intention.
btw also…
I created an entire thread about this a long time ago…cant remember the title I gave it so I am too lazy to try to search and link it…
but one of CT’s earliest published articles outlined a routine called HTT(High Tension Training) which INHO, if you want to get leaner, and add raw-bone real “functional”(yes, I said the F word lol) muscle, it is still the best thing out there…
no matter how much CT tries to repackage his ideas so he post more articles on this website to pimp his services and Biotest products, this is still one of the best routines out there.
look it up and try it, i dare you…
I remember the Crossfit board was really big on no arm work…like if you did it you were simply a Narcissist. When people mentioned it it would say On Mondays I do deadlifts, db row and arms (yeah yeah, I know I know) every time.
Fuck, if it’s not hurting your arms (as though people are like robots with some indicator telling how much work their arms have left in them or something) then why not train them?
[quote]Nards wrote:
I remember the Crossfit board was really big on no arm work…like if you did it you were simply a Narcissist. When people mentioned it it would say On Mondays I do deadlifts, db row and arms (yeah yeah, I know I know) every time.
Fuck, if it’s not hurting your arms (as though people are like robots with some indicator telling how much work their arms have left in them or something) then why not train them?[/quote]
Anything not to be associated with those nasty looking bodybuilder douchebags, dontcha know.
People are missing the point here. Most of you guys are developed and to the point of being sef-aware of what needs fixing. Most people don’t.
I am a PT/S&C coach and when I ask the beginners to see their programs-most don’t even have it written down. so I then ask what they did? Answer: 20 sets of various curls some benching and nothing else, a couple of times a week none-the-less. They sure don’t look like bodybuilders to me.
Point I am trying to make if you really put your effort into the Major lifts for the first couple of years atleast -then you can work on your isolation exercises and really start seeing the results.
[quote]FISCHER613 wrote:
People are missing the point here. Most of you guys are developed and to the point of being sef-aware of what needs fixing. Most people don’t.
I am a PT/S&C coach and when I ask the beginners to see their programs-most don’t even have it written down. so I then ask what they did? Answer: 20 sets of various curls some benching and nothing else, a couple of times a week none-the-less. They sure don’t look like bodybuilders to me.
Point I am trying to make if you really put your effort into the Major lifts for the first couple of years atleast -then you can work on your isolation exercises and really start seeing the results.
[/quote]
good post
[quote]FISCHER613 wrote:
Point I am trying to make if you really put your effort into the Major lifts for the first couple of years atleast -then you can work on your isolation exercises and really start seeing the results.
[/quote]
I don’t see the logic behind this way of thinking. If you have some newbie that is doing nothing but curls and pushdowns, and you want to teach him how to train properly, why wouldn’t you teach him to put effort into EVERYTHING? It’s like you think getting strong on the bench press and lateral raises cannot happen simultaneously. You wouldn’t be doing our hypothetical newbie any favors by having him ignoring isolation exercises for the first 2 years.
[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
[quote]FISCHER613 wrote:
Point I am trying to make if you really put your effort into the Major lifts for the first couple of years atleast -then you can work on your isolation exercises and really start seeing the results.
[/quote]
I don’t see the logic behind this way of thinking. If you have some newbie that is doing nothing but curls and pushdowns, and you want to teach him how to train properly, why wouldn’t you teach him to put effort into EVERYTHING? It’s like you think getting strong on the bench press and lateral raises cannot happen simultaneously. You wouldn’t be doing our hypothetical newbie any favors by having him ignoring isolation exercises for the first 2 years.[/quote]
you should check out fischer’s log in the over 35 forum, he is very knowledgeable, strong, and trains and rehabs people for a living. oh, and he is pretty damn big too.
I think you missed the point of his post and could benefit from listening more. I am 44, been training hard and heavy for 30 years, and I still am learning, and know I do not have it figured out yet.
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
[quote]FISCHER613 wrote:
Point I am trying to make if you really put your effort into the Major lifts for the first couple of years atleast -then you can work on your isolation exercises and really start seeing the results.
[/quote]
I don’t see the logic behind this way of thinking. If you have some newbie that is doing nothing but curls and pushdowns, and you want to teach him how to train properly, why wouldn’t you teach him to put effort into EVERYTHING? It’s like you think getting strong on the bench press and lateral raises cannot happen simultaneously. You wouldn’t be doing our hypothetical newbie any favors by having him ignoring isolation exercises for the first 2 years.[/quote]
you should check out fischer’s log in the over 35 forum, he is very knowledgeable, strong, and trains and rehabs people for a living. oh, and he is pretty damn big too.
I think you missed the point of his post and could benefit from listening more. I am 44, been training hard and heavy for 30 years, and I still am learning, and know I do not have it figured out yet. [/quote]
That doesn’t make him right. I disagree with him also.
We could all learn more, but many of us have also learned quite a bit from our own experiences.
My personal experience comes from building myself up after starting without some unique “already built” genetic advantage.
I personally would not tell some newb to only focus on 'compound movements" if his goal is to get huge. I would tell him to train everything.
fair enough…I think the problem lies with
one: people not being realistic with their goals, " i want to have a six pack, train mma, lift only 2 times a week and have HYOOGE arms, etc.
two: too much dogma in whatever training philosophy they buy into.
btw, if you are hitting the OL’s, squats, deads, and presses and rows HEAVY and often, you ARE training everything.
my right arm is well over 18 inches, I am a midget as you know, that is pretty big and the vast majority of my training has very little direct arm work,
though I will concede I do see improvement in my arm development when I do add in some direct arm work.
“Most people” are not realistic. “Bodybuilding” isn’t for “most people”.
Most people are just in the gym as a social affair.
Bodybuilders, even if they start out as the type to neglect legs, are generally more focused and see more progress in the long run.
I had 18" arms pretty quickly when I started because I trained them directly. In mu opinion, unless you have a build like Bwhitwell, 18" would be the mark I would use to see if you have the genes to even take this to an extreme to start with.
Mind you, that’s 18" lean enough to see a biceps and a triceps at all.
ya, quality is important, as a 260-270lb college athlete, i had arms approaching 21 inches, but I know my arms LOOK much bigger now that I am a lean(for me) 225lbs.
I dug up an old notebook/training log from those days, I had some ridiculous measurements. not sure you would believe them.
also, I think the best PLers with a few exceptions, do quite a bit of BB supplemental work,
and most of the best BBers, do quite a bit of heavy lifting with the big lifts (sq, dl, bp, ohp,)
it becomes an issue when you totally neglect one for the other.