No Burqas in France

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
81

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:

I see nothing wrong with women doing more with their lives than just pooping out babies. However a society cannot long survive alongside another society that hates it and has a much higher birthrate. If making women start having babies isn’t an acceptable solution then you have to start looking for other solutions.

possibly some sort of final solution?[/quote]

You are such a cliche with your rhetoric. What is pathetic about you is you don’t know enough about history to understand the contradictions in your rhetoric. It was one of islam’s most highly regarded cleric’s the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem who made a deal with Hitler to implement the final solution.

The deal was the mufti would recruit muslims to join the Waffen SS and the SS would exterminate the Jews. The grand mufti also gave lectures to the Waffen SS extolling the similarities of the ideology of islam and national socialism.

Even today after his history is well known the grand mufti is a hero to many muslims. The gand mufti’s nephew who he raised Yassar Arafat is another murderer who is ery popular with muslims.

Because of that history I have to say that your invocation of the final solution in a rhetorical fashion to attack my criticism of islam is outrageous. But it is not surprising. You liberals will play fast and loose with issues of race and racism with your standards of right and wrong varying to suit your needs for pushing your agenda.

[quote]

Just so you have some idea of the extremes of ideology that europeans go to. In some of the European countries taking pride in ones heritage can be seen as evil.ie In Britain if someone merely says they are English they will be accused of racism because the PC brigade says that the English must only refer to themselves as British which is a general term that does not denote ethnicity.

This is quite clearly rubbish. I am English, I refer to myself as English, when I fill in nationality on a form I write English and I have never ever had anyone give me any issue over it.

You quite clearly have no concept of what you write. [/quote]

I have lived in England I know what people over there are like. I wouldn’t have written that if I hadn’t heard people say that. There are football stadiums in Britain that have banned people from bringing in Cross of st. George flags because they say it is a racist symbol. There are housing councils that have banned people from flying Union Jacks outside their homes because they say it is offensive to immigrants.

82

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:
What a ridiculous statement. I have plenty of loyalty, I am loyal to my employer (up to a point) I am loyal to my family, I am loyal to my friends who have shown loyalty to me.

Thanks for proving my point. You list your employer first, family second, friends third. I should have known that Mr. pro globalisation would list his employer as his first loyalty. You are a silly sod.

The difference is that unlike you my loyalty is based on reciprocal respect, not the colour of people’s skin, their social standing or the religion they choose to follow.

You don’t know the first thing about me and you have a really naive view of how a lot of other people think.

Unfortunately the world is still filled with small minded biggots like you who have a totally outmoded clan mentality.

You exhibit a lot of bigotry yourself homeboy. Especially your colonial mindset. You think you are the great white leader who can just tell all of us little brown savages that our clan loyaties are outmoded so we must give way to your great white globalist agenda and we will immediately obey.

Listen Goebels I actually wrote that list without Employer then added it at the end so puts paid to your little theory. Of course my employer is not my first loyalty. I moved country for my family and then found a new employer locally leaving behind an employer that was prepared to pay me a ridiculous wage and give me a seat on the board.[/quote]

Again you have resorted to invoking the nazis. Is that all you’ve got? If you can’t come up with anything better that shows a weakness in your argument. If you added your employer at the end how did he end up first on the list? If you took some extra time to think about it why would you list an employer in Mexico but leave Great Britain off of the list?

If you are British but you won’t put Britain on a list that has an employer in Mexico 1st on the list that proves I am right. You don’t have loyalty to your people. Because of this you do not have the neccessary perspective to understand and appreciate the role that loyalty to a nation, a tribe or a religion can play in people’s lives.

[quote]

You are right that I know nothing about you however from reading your posts I see repeated support for racist biggoted concepts. I therefore assume that you are racist and biggoted. You could of course be trolling. [/quote]

Your accusations of racism are bullshit. I have made no mention of race. Islam is not a race, it is an ideology. Criticism of ideology is not racism.

[quote]
In no way do I think of myself as a colonialist however one thing that is true is that big business is far more powerful than any government and always has been. The various import export companies were the power behind the British Empire in the same way that Oil companies are the power behind the US Empire. The choice that is left is to sit about whimpering on about the darkies stealing all the jobs or get off your arse and make the best of the situation.[/quote]

You might not think it but you are very colonial in your thinking. You think that just because a bunch of white, European, liberals say that group loyalties based upon race, religion or other lines are silly all “the darkies” are just going to get in line and abandon group loyalties that go back hundreds or even thousands of years.

You absolutely do think that you and the rest of the white liberal establishment are THE shot caller for the world. You absolutely refuse to accept that “the darkies” might have their own ideas.

You believe that you are the great white thinker who all “the darkies” will allow to do all their thinking for them. You are so full of your own superiority that you refuse to consider that “the darkis” who are receptive to your ideas may have their own agenda with a radically different end game from what you are aiming for.

But they go along with you beacuse they see your idealism as a naivete that will get them what they want.

Last but not least you show how narrow minded you are with your silly comment of “whimpering on about the darkies stealing all the jobs”. In Britain a lot of people have been put out of work by the Poles.

Polish people are white. What is being done to working people in the first world by opening the first world job markets to competition from the third world is wrecked economies, mass unemployment and a declining standard of living. It’s not an issue of race but that didn’t stop you from once again trying to interject race into the discussion.

83

[quote]Molotov_Coktease wrote:
Sifu, you are right.[/quote]

Thank you for the support, it is greatly appreciated.

84

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu is also a staunch supporter of a UK political organisation with proven links to Neonazi Paramilitary groups which is headed by Holocaust deniers.

You are so pathetic. Because I have made mincemeat out of you in numerous debates all you can now do is resort to character assassination.

You are the resident Tory/Labour sympathizer. It was a Tory government that refused to allow Jews fleeing Nazi persecution entry into their traditional homeland in what was then called Palestine. Hitler used this refusal to take the Jews as justification for the final solution. The Tories made that situation far more deadlier for the Jews than it needed to be.

Or how about how a Labour government took a third of India and gave just gave it to biggotted hateful Islam? There are over a hundred million Sikhs, but because of Labour they have to apply for permission from muslims to be able to visit their holy city because it is now in Pakistan.

Really, please link to the debates where you have done anything other than whine on about white good, brown bad.

I have a better idea jackass, you provide a link to where I have stated the whites are superior or admit you are making shit up.

You call me a Tory / Labour symapthiser without realising that is like calling someone a Republican / Deomcrat sympathiser. In no way do I sympathise with the Labour party, I have never voted for them and feel that their underlying rason detre is now outmoded. I have voted Tory in the past through lack of a more viable option but see a huge number of issues with the thinking that makes up the shadow cabinet. You then point out two bad decisions in British politics that were taken under two different parties. What is your point? I could give you bad decisions that were made by Whigs. What would that prove? Nothing more than the fact that politicians make bad decisions all the time regardless or party.

I call you a sympathiser because you spout ideology that is very much inline with their policies. You are an enthusiastic supporter of the English, Irish, Scots and Welsh losing their identity as a people and their ability to collectively control their destiny through the decision making of their own government.

You are the one who keeps trying to associate a political party that was founded in the 1980’s to Nazi Germany of the 1930’ and 40’s in order to tarnish them with the crimes of the nazis. My point is that during the nazi era your Tory party was the party running the government of Great Britain.

It was your Tory party that denied the Jews a safe haven in their historic homeland and abandoned them to their fate at the hands of the nazis. But that doesn’t stop you from trying to tarnish another party with the slaughter that the Tories had a hand in. You say that the idea of a people having a homeland is silly, the stateless Jews in the concentration camps died because they didn’t have a homeland because your Tory party denied them theirs, I fail to see the humor in it.

I brought up the partition of India because you again keep trying to smear a party that was formed in the 1980’s by trying to associate them with the crimes of the nazis. I am merely pointing out that when the Labour party was in power in the 1940’s they gave religious bigots a third of India and caused a series of wars that have killed millions and threaten to kill Billions.

Please don’t show up your ignorance of history again, we have seen again and again that you don’t even understand the history in your own country so please don’t start taking your idiocy global. Yes it was a bad idea, Mountbatten said as much at the time to the local leaders, however there was really no choice. If the country had not been partitioned by the British there would have been a civil war. The outcome was inevitable, the British were just trying to save face.

The Labour party partition of India has parrallells to today. They did not consult the Indian people on an issue that has profound implications for their continued existance as a people and just gave in to muslim bigotry. 65 years later nothing has changed with them. But all you can think to do is engage in character assassinations against a party that has never held power.

I love the fact that you started off trying to accuse me of being a Blairite on other threads, then when I point out that I have always been against Blair you dredge up everything bad that the Tories have done (even though I have already acknowledged that the Tories have done a lot wrong.)

You have no point![/quote]

Okay Essex man. Now you want to winge about me accepting that you are a Tory.

I very much made my point. You keep drudging up the Nazis and trying to use them to smear the BNP. You are trying to use the history of the 1930’s and 40’s against a party that was constituted in the 1980’s.

I have pointed out the fact that in the 1930’s-40’s the Tory party was in government, making and implementing policy. Policy which at the time was clearly immoral and made the death toll from the final solution much higher than it needed to be.

It is outrageous hypocracy that you invoke the nazis to try and make the BNP look bad when it is your Tory party that played a central role in the holocaust.

85

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
aussie486 wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:

So the BNP has no links to Combat 18 (even though they did security for BNP events for years) and Nick Griffen has never stated that he felt that the the Holocaust was exagerated (even though there are recordings of him doing it.) And denial is just a river in Africa.[/quote]

The Rolling Stones used to hire the Hell’s Angels to do their security but people don’t say that they are permanently linked.

Barack Obama mentor and Democrat Senator Robert Byrd, is President Pro Tempore of the senate placing him third in line of succession to the Presidency after Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi. Byrd got his start in politics when his local chapter of the Ku Klux Klan elected him Exalted Cyclops.

In 1944, Byrd wrote to segregationist Mississippi Senator Theodore Bilbo:[9]

â?? I shall never fight in the armed forces with a Negro by my side… Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds. â??

If Byrd can live down his past I certainly think Griffen can live down his. The BNP has over a million supporters but all you and the establishment political parties can think to do is constantly dredge up Griffen’s past while ignoring the present. You are doing it to avoid dealing with the issues.

Because you don’t have answers to deal with the present issues you concentrate on constantly digging up the past. But now that this has failed you don’t have anything else to offer other than more of the same status quo.

86

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:
lixy wrote:
AlisaV wrote:
All right Sifu:

I cut some corners. Religion is not race. And if you don’t want me to call it scaremongering, then all right, I won’t.

My problem with these kinds of demographic “They will overwhelm us” arguments is that it leads to no good solutions.

Just so you know whom you’re dealing with, Sifu advocates discriminating on religious grounds when granting visas and residencies, sending all Muslims “home” (whatever that means). When I asked him what can be done about the second/third/fourth/fifth generations, he proposed building detention camps and locking the Muslims in there.

That’s when I stopped replying to him.

You stopped replying to me is because I repeatedly owned your ass by pointing out all your contradictions and lies.

What I advocate is reciprocity in dealing with muslims. ie Saudi Arabia isn’t letting it’s millions of migrant workers become citizens and setup houses or worship for faiths other than islam. Even though Saudi Arabia is building mosques all over Europe. Dubai isn’t giving it’s millions of migrant workers citizenship either, because the migrants would outnumber them.

The muslim world is hateful to outsiders where it is quite common for non muslims to be murdered. It is suicide to keep importing and harboring that kind of hatred into our country thereby expaning their territory.

It is not fair that in order to give muslims a new home to live in outside of their own fucked up countries we have to be subjected to terrorist atacks and have our hard won civil liberties and freedoms eroded because of their presence.

Contrary to what Lixy has written what I proposed was deporting the muslims back to their country of origin and giving the ones who were born in the west the option of going back to their ancestral homeland. Only the ones who refused to go or who couldn’t go would need to be put in internment camps.

So at root you support concentration camps for British born muslims.

Not at all. What I support is instead of them turning Britain into an islamic country the British should encourage them to move to a country that is already islamic. That way they can all be happy because they are living in an islamic country and more importantly my familiy can all be happy because they aren’t living in an islamic country.

What I support is a win win situation because both sides will get what they want. My solution is far superior to the present trend which is a win lose situation, where the muslims win a new conquered land that they will never give up, while the British lose their homeland and their way of life, never to get it back.

So you did someone else hack into your computer and type:

‘I proposed deporting the muslims back to their country of origin and giving the ones who were born in the west the option of going back to their ancestral homeland. Only the ones who refused to go or who couldn’t go would need to be put in internment camps.’[/quote]

The Mahgreb is the size of the United States, Saudi Arabia is the size of the east coast, Turkey is almost the size of Western Europe and there is a lot more. The muslims already have a lot of land that is their own. Much of their land they have stolen from others. They have lots of land to accomodate their own without them taking away anyone elses.

Why should we continue to tolerate the muslims being a threat to our security and freedom? What is wrong with them living with their own?

If you have cancer in the body you have to get rid of all of it or it just grows back. Sometimes the only treatment that will save a persons life is amputation. Islam is a cancer that we need to amputate from our society otherwise it will kill it.

87

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:

possibly some sort of final solution?

You are such a cliche with your rhetoric. What is pathetic about you is you don’t know enough about history to understand the contradictions in your rhetoric. It was one of islam’s most highly regarded cleric’s the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem who made a deal with Hitler to implement the final solution.

The deal was the mufti would recruit muslims to join the Waffen SS and the SS would exterminate the Jews. The grand mufti also gave lectures to the Waffen SS extolling the similarities of the ideology of islam and national socialism.

Even today after his history is well known the grand mufti is a hero to many muslims. The gand mufti’s nephew who he raised Yassar Arafat is another murderer who is ery popular with muslims.

Because of that history I have to say that your invocation of the final solution in a rhetorical fashion to attack my criticism of islam is outrageous. But it is not surprising. You liberals will play fast and loose with issues of race and racism with your standards of right and wrong varying to suit your needs for pushing your agenda.

[/quote]
careful that tin foil hat doesn’t slip (thought you would appreciate another cliche response.)

[quote]
This is quite clearly rubbish. I am English, I refer to myself as English, when I fill in nationality on a form I write English and I have never ever had anyone give me any issue over it.

You quite clearly have no concept of what you write.

I have lived in England I know what people over there are like. I wouldn’t have written that if I hadn’t heard people say that. There are football stadiums in Britain that have banned people from bringing in Cross of st. George flags because they say it is a racist symbol. There are housing councils that have banned people from flying Union Jacks outside their homes because they say it is offensive to immigrants. [/quote]

Pretty much all of those types of stories are trumped up by right wing propaganda sources like the Daily Heil. When you get to the bottom of it, normally it is some idiot on a local council who has proposed something that then gets jumped all over if anyone ever tries to enforce it.

Yes there is a certain embarassment about the George flag and St George’s day tends to flit past without much notice compared to Paddy’s Day however that is mainly because most of Britain doesn’t want to be associated with hate groups like the BNP.

Incidentally I have a St George’s Flag sticker on both of my cars.

88

[quote]Sifu wrote:

Again you have resorted to invoking the nazis. Is that all you’ve got? If you can’t come up with anything better that shows a weakness in your argument. If you added your employer at the end how did he end up first on the list? If you took some extra time to think about it why would you list an employer in Mexico but leave Great Britain off of the list?
[/quote]

It truly was hapenstance that I put it at the front of the list, nothing more. I have no particular loyalty to Great Britain over and above the friends and family that I have there. I have paid far more than my share of taxes over the years in the UK which I believe has more than paid my way. I owe the country nothing. There are plenty of things that I love about the UK but that is true of every country that I have visited.

I do fully understand it, I have seen it in action. Try going to the Manchester Derby and not witnessing tribal mentality or feeling the rush of it. I have also seen the negative side of it. Fans having paint stripper poured over their heads for wearing a blue instead of a red shirt. Kids getting glasses shoved in their face because their accent was from the wrong part of London. This tribe mentality comes from a time when we were literally small family based tribes fighting for our survival against other tribes. This is no-longer the case in the majority of the world therefore it is in the worlds interests for people to recognise this and rise above these petty feelings.

You have repeatedly stated your support for a racist group. If I said I was a KKK member but not racist, what would you assume about me?

What makes you assume that the people that I work with are white? I work with people of all races, colours and creeds. You are the one who assumes that they are white because that is your world view.

Since when has Poland been a third world country? Having spent time in Poland and having a large group of Polish friends in London (from the gym and from living in Chiswick) I can tell you that I welcome the addition of Polish people to the culture of great Britain and am happy to see them able to inject money back into a country that was brought to its knees by war and oppression.

89

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu is also a staunch supporter of a UK political organisation with proven links to Neonazi Paramilitary groups which is headed by Holocaust deniers.

You are so pathetic. Because I have made mincemeat out of you in numerous debates all you can now do is resort to character assassination.

You are the resident Tory/Labour sympathizer. It was a Tory government that refused to allow Jews fleeing Nazi persecution entry into their traditional homeland in what was then called Palestine. Hitler used this refusal to take the Jews as justification for the final solution. The Tories made that situation far more deadlier for the Jews than it needed to be.

Or how about how a Labour government took a third of India and gave just gave it to biggotted hateful Islam? There are over a hundred million Sikhs, but because of Labour they have to apply for permission from muslims to be able to visit their holy city because it is now in Pakistan.

Really, please link to the debates where you have done anything other than whine on about white good, brown bad.

I have a better idea jackass, you provide a link to where I have stated the whites are superior or admit you are making shit up.

You call me a Tory / Labour symapthiser without realising that is like calling someone a Republican / Deomcrat sympathiser. In no way do I sympathise with the Labour party, I have never voted for them and feel that their underlying rason detre is now outmoded. I have voted Tory in the past through lack of a more viable option but see a huge number of issues with the thinking that makes up the shadow cabinet. You then point out two bad decisions in British politics that were taken under two different parties. What is your point? I could give you bad decisions that were made by Whigs. What would that prove? Nothing more than the fact that politicians make bad decisions all the time regardless or party.

I call you a sympathiser because you spout ideology that is very much inline with their policies. You are an enthusiastic supporter of the English, Irish, Scots and Welsh losing their identity as a people and their ability to collectively control their destiny through the decision making of their own government.

You are the one who keeps trying to associate a political party that was founded in the 1980’s to Nazi Germany of the 1930’ and 40’s in order to tarnish them with the crimes of the nazis. My point is that during the nazi era your Tory party was the party running the government of Great Britain.

It was your Tory party that denied the Jews a safe haven in their historic homeland and abandoned them to their fate at the hands of the nazis. But that doesn’t stop you from trying to tarnish another party with the slaughter that the Tories had a hand in. You say that the idea of a people having a homeland is silly, the stateless Jews in the concentration camps died because they didn’t have a homeland because your Tory party denied them theirs, I fail to see the humor in it.

I brought up the partition of India because you again keep trying to smear a party that was formed in the 1980’s by trying to associate them with the crimes of the nazis. I am merely pointing out that when the Labour party was in power in the 1940’s they gave religious bigots a third of India and caused a series of wars that have killed millions and threaten to kill Billions.

Please don’t show up your ignorance of history again, we have seen again and again that you don’t even understand the history in your own country so please don’t start taking your idiocy global. Yes it was a bad idea, Mountbatten said as much at the time to the local leaders, however there was really no choice. If the country had not been partitioned by the British there would have been a civil war. The outcome was inevitable, the British were just trying to save face.

The Labour party partition of India has parrallells to today. They did not consult the Indian people on an issue that has profound implications for their continued existance as a people and just gave in to muslim bigotry. 65 years later nothing has changed with them. But all you can think to do is engage in character assassinations against a party that has never held power.

I love the fact that you started off trying to accuse me of being a Blairite on other threads, then when I point out that I have always been against Blair you dredge up everything bad that the Tories have done (even though I have already acknowledged that the Tories have done a lot wrong.)

You have no point!

Okay Essex man. Now you want to winge about me accepting that you are a Tory.

I very much made my point. You keep drudging up the Nazis and trying to use them to smear the BNP. You are trying to use the history of the 1930’s and 40’s against a party that was constituted in the 1980’s.

I have pointed out the fact that in the 1930’s-40’s the Tory party was in government, making and implementing policy. Policy which at the time was clearly immoral and made the death toll from the final solution much higher than it needed to be.

It is outrageous hypocracy that you invoke the nazis to try and make the BNP look bad when it is your Tory party that played a central role in the holocaust.[/quote]

It is not my Tory party, I voted for them for lack of a better option but I fully accept that there are still some total idiots in the party. The difference being that the Tories appeased Hitler in the run up to the Second World War as an effort to buy time to build an army. Yes there were people in the party at the time who sympathised with his views (and probably still are,) but if they voiced their views they would be thrown out of the party. The BNP on the other hand has a paramilitary arm that is named after Adolf Hitler and the leaders and founders are on record as supporting Hitler and denying the Holocaust.

If you can’t appreciate that subtle difference then you are truly lost.

By the way, not from Essex so try again.

90

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
aussie486 wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:

So the BNP has no links to Combat 18 (even though they did security for BNP events for years) and Nick Griffen has never stated that he felt that the the Holocaust was exagerated (even though there are recordings of him doing it.) And denial is just a river in Africa.

The Rolling Stones used to hire the Hell’s Angels to do their security but people don’t say that they are permanently linked.

Barack Obama mentor and Democrat Senator Robert Byrd, is President Pro Tempore of the senate placing him third in line of succession to the Presidency after Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi. Byrd got his start in politics when his local chapter of the Ku Klux Klan elected him Exalted Cyclops.

In 1944, Byrd wrote to segregationist Mississippi Senator Theodore Bilbo:[9]

â?? I shall never fight in the armed forces with a Negro by my side… Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds. â??

If Byrd can live down his past I certainly think Griffen can live down his. The BNP has over a million supporters but all you and the establishment political parties can think to do is constantly dredge up Griffen’s past while ignoring the present. You are doing it to avoid dealing with the issues.

Because you don’t have answers to deal with the present issues you concentrate on constantly digging up the past. But now that this has failed you don’t have anything else to offer other than more of the same status quo.[/quote]

Had I stated support for the Rolling Stones actions, or those of Senator Bird then you might have a point, but as usual, you don’t.

91

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:
lixy wrote:
AlisaV wrote:
All right Sifu:

I cut some corners. Religion is not race. And if you don’t want me to call it scaremongering, then all right, I won’t.

My problem with these kinds of demographic “They will overwhelm us” arguments is that it leads to no good solutions.

Just so you know whom you’re dealing with, Sifu advocates discriminating on religious grounds when granting visas and residencies, sending all Muslims “home” (whatever that means). When I asked him what can be done about the second/third/fourth/fifth generations, he proposed building detention camps and locking the Muslims in there.

That’s when I stopped replying to him.

You stopped replying to me is because I repeatedly owned your ass by pointing out all your contradictions and lies.

What I advocate is reciprocity in dealing with muslims. ie Saudi Arabia isn’t letting it’s millions of migrant workers become citizens and setup houses or worship for faiths other than islam. Even though Saudi Arabia is building mosques all over Europe. Dubai isn’t giving it’s millions of migrant workers citizenship either, because the migrants would outnumber them.

The muslim world is hateful to outsiders where it is quite common for non muslims to be murdered. It is suicide to keep importing and harboring that kind of hatred into our country thereby expaning their territory.

It is not fair that in order to give muslims a new home to live in outside of their own fucked up countries we have to be subjected to terrorist atacks and have our hard won civil liberties and freedoms eroded because of their presence.

Contrary to what Lixy has written what I proposed was deporting the muslims back to their country of origin and giving the ones who were born in the west the option of going back to their ancestral homeland. Only the ones who refused to go or who couldn’t go would need to be put in internment camps.

So at root you support concentration camps for British born muslims.

Not at all. What I support is instead of them turning Britain into an islamic country the British should encourage them to move to a country that is already islamic. That way they can all be happy because they are living in an islamic country and more importantly my familiy can all be happy because they aren’t living in an islamic country.

What I support is a win win situation because both sides will get what they want. My solution is far superior to the present trend which is a win lose situation, where the muslims win a new conquered land that they will never give up, while the British lose their homeland and their way of life, never to get it back.

So you did someone else hack into your computer and type:

‘I proposed deporting the muslims back to their country of origin and giving the ones who were born in the west the option of going back to their ancestral homeland. Only the ones who refused to go or who couldn’t go would need to be put in internment camps.’

The Mahgreb is the size of the United States, Saudi Arabia is the size of the east coast, Turkey is almost the size of Western Europe and there is a lot more. The muslims already have a lot of land that is their own. Much of their land they have stolen from others. They have lots of land to accomodate their own without them taking away anyone elses.

Why should we continue to tolerate the muslims being a threat to our security and freedom? What is wrong with them living with their own?

If you have cancer in the body you have to get rid of all of it or it just grows back. Sometimes the only treatment that will save a persons life is amputation. Islam is a cancer that we need to amputate from our society otherwise it will kill it. [/quote]

So do you or do you not support locking up US muslims in concentration camps against their will? Straight yes no answer please.

92

Anyway Sifu, to save hijacking this thread further it is safe to say we disagree. Your reaction to the oppression of the Burqa is that it should be banned, I feel that using oppression to combat oppression makes no sense and will only serve to enflame the tensions. We both howver agree that the Burqa is wrong.

93

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:

possibly some sort of final solution?

You are such a cliche with your rhetoric. What is pathetic about you is you don’t know enough about history to understand the contradictions in your rhetoric. It was one of islam’s most highly regarded cleric’s the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem who made a deal with Hitler to implement the final solution.

The deal was the mufti would recruit muslims to join the Waffen SS and the SS would exterminate the Jews. The grand mufti also gave lectures to the Waffen SS extolling the similarities of the ideology of islam and national socialism.

Even today after his history is well known the grand mufti is a hero to many muslims. The gand mufti’s nephew who he raised Yassar Arafat is another murderer who is ery popular with muslims.

Because of that history I have to say that your invocation of the final solution in a rhetorical fashion to attack my criticism of islam is outrageous. But it is not surprising. You liberals will play fast and loose with issues of race and racism with your standards of right and wrong varying to suit your needs for pushing your agenda.

careful that tin foil hat doesn’t slip (thought you would appreciate another cliche response.)[/quote]

Remember, sarcasm doesn’t work well over the internet.

This is quite clearly rubbish. I am English, I refer to myself as English, when I fill in nationality on a form I write English and I have never ever had anyone give me any issue over it.

You quite clearly have no concept of what you write.

I have lived in England I know what people over there are like. I wouldn’t have written that if I hadn’t heard people say that. There are football stadiums in Britain that have banned people from bringing in Cross of st. George flags because they say it is a racist symbol. There are housing councils that have banned people from flying Union Jacks outside their homes because they say it is offensive to immigrants.

Pretty much all of those types of stories are trumped up by right wing propaganda sources like the Daily Heil. When you get to the bottom of it, normally it is some idiot on a local council who has proposed something that then gets jumped all over if anyone ever tries to enforce it.

Yes there is a certain embarassment about the George flag and St George’s day tends to flit past without much notice compared to Paddy’s Day however that is mainly because most of Britain doesn’t want to be associated with hate groups like the BNP.

Incidentally I have a St George’s Flag sticker on both of my cars. [/quote]

There are a lot of idiots on the local councils. Quite a few of them have gone big time and taken the act to Westminster. Britain is wrought with extremes of fear and paranoia over racism that we don’t suffer from in the US, yet race relations here are much better. It is because we don’t have a bunch of commissars running around trying to control what people think and say.

94

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:

possibly some sort of final solution?

You are such a cliche with your rhetoric. What is pathetic about you is you don’t know enough about history to understand the contradictions in your rhetoric. It was one of islam’s most highly regarded cleric’s the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem who made a deal with Hitler to implement the final solution.

The deal was the mufti would recruit muslims to join the Waffen SS and the SS would exterminate the Jews. The grand mufti also gave lectures to the Waffen SS extolling the similarities of the ideology of islam and national socialism.

Even today after his history is well known the grand mufti is a hero to many muslims. The gand mufti’s nephew who he raised Yassar Arafat is another murderer who is ery popular with muslims.

Because of that history I have to say that your invocation of the final solution in a rhetorical fashion to attack my criticism of islam is outrageous. But it is not surprising. You liberals will play fast and loose with issues of race and racism with your standards of right and wrong varying to suit your needs for pushing your agenda.

careful that tin foil hat doesn’t slip (thought you would appreciate another cliche response.)

Remember, sarcasm doesn’t work well over the internet.

This is quite clearly rubbish. I am English, I refer to myself as English, when I fill in nationality on a form I write English and I have never ever had anyone give me any issue over it.

You quite clearly have no concept of what you write.

I have lived in England I know what people over there are like. I wouldn’t have written that if I hadn’t heard people say that. There are football stadiums in Britain that have banned people from bringing in Cross of st. George flags because they say it is a racist symbol. There are housing councils that have banned people from flying Union Jacks outside their homes because they say it is offensive to immigrants.

Pretty much all of those types of stories are trumped up by right wing propaganda sources like the Daily Heil. When you get to the bottom of it, normally it is some idiot on a local council who has proposed something that then gets jumped all over if anyone ever tries to enforce it.

Yes there is a certain embarassment about the George flag and St George’s day tends to flit past without much notice compared to Paddy’s Day however that is mainly because most of Britain doesn’t want to be associated with hate groups like the BNP.

Incidentally I have a St George’s Flag sticker on both of my cars.

There are a lot of idiots on the local councils. Quite a few of them have gone big time and taken the act to Westminster. Britain is wrought with extremes of fear and paranoia over racism that we don’t suffer from in the US, yet race relations here are much better. It is because we don’t have a bunch of commissars running around trying to control what people think and say. [/quote]

The George flag has not been banned anywhere, flags in general have in some places, that is different (but still stupid to my mind).

I am not sure if I agree that race relations in the US are better than the UK but I certainly agree that there are a lot of idiots on local councils.

95

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:

Again you have resorted to invoking the nazis. Is that all you’ve got? If you can’t come up with anything better that shows a weakness in your argument. If you added your employer at the end how did he end up first on the list? If you took some extra time to think about it why would you list an employer in Mexico but leave Great Britain off of the list?

It truly was hapenstance that I put it at the front of the list, nothing more. I have no particular loyalty to Great Britain over and above the friends and family that I have there. I have paid far more than my share of taxes over the years in the UK which I believe has more than paid my way. I owe the country nothing. There are plenty of things that I love about the UK but that is true of every country that I have visited. [/quote]

I can tell you have no particular loyalty to Britain. Britain’s elite political class doesn’t have any particular loyalty to Britain either. The electorate can tell they have no particular loyalty to Britain. That is why the BNP a political party that does have a particular loyalty to Britain and the British people is rapidly gaining support.

I can agree with you that the tax structure in Britain is way out of control but that is the fault of the government enabled by an electorate that will not hold them accountable. I can understand the sentiment, but for you to say that you owe the nation nothing just because you have given it money is wrong.

You come from a country where people have bigger sacrifices than money so you could live in freedom. A few of my relatives who fought for British freedom, for the freedom of your friends and family, did not come back alive. Maybe your famliy has made a similar sacrifice that my family has also benefitted from. For all we know our relatives could have fought alongside each other. Yet you don’t see me or my family as anything more than strangers who you share no more of a tie with than you would a Pashtun tribesman.

[quote]

If you are British but you won’t put Britain on a list that has an employer in Mexico 1st on the list that proves I am right. You don’t have loyalty to your people. Because of this you do not have the neccessary perspective to understand and appreciate the role that loyalty to a nation, a tribe or a religion can play in people’s lives.

I do fully understand it, I have seen it in action. Try going to the Manchester Derby and not witnessing tribal mentality or feeling the rush of it. I have also seen the negative side of it. Fans having paint stripper poured over their heads for wearing a blue instead of a red shirt. Kids getting glasses shoved in their face because their accent was from the wrong part of London. This tribe mentality comes from a time when we were literally small family based tribes fighting for our survival against other tribes. This is no-longer the case in the majority of the world therefore it is in the worlds interests for people to recognise this and rise above these petty feelings. [/quote]

You understand it because you have seen it in action is not nearly the same as understanding it because you have experienced and felt it yourself. You only choose to see the negative. And it is very cut and dry with you, there are no grey areas.

British liberals will waffle on about how wonderfully multi-cultural they are making Britain, but the reality is they have made Britain dangerously multi-tribal. Much of the negativity you have referred to is is a direct result of the ties of shared heritage that bound the British together as a people being broken. Where you are wrong is that as the national identity of being British has been diluted and cheapened the people are reverting to petty tribalism. It is not getting better it is getting worse.

[quote]

Your accusations of racism are bullshit. I have made no mention of race. Islam is not a race, it is an ideology. Criticism of ideology is not racism.

You have repeatedly stated your support for a racist group. If I said I was a KKK member but not racist, what would you assume about me? [/quote]

You have a blatant double standard when it comes to racism. If it is a group you don’t like you will scream racism until you are blue in the face but if it is a group you do like you will remain silent.

The BNP is not the KKK.

[quote]
You might not think it but you are very colonial in your thinking. You think that just because a bunch of white, European, liberals say that group loyalties based upon race, religion or other lines are silly all “the darkies” are just going to get in line and abandon group loyalties that go back hundreds or even thousands of years.

You absolutely do think that you and the rest of the white liberal establishment are THE shot caller for the world. You absolutely refuse to accept that “the darkies” might have their own ideas.

You believe that you are the great white thinker who all “the darkies” will allow to do all their thinking for them. You are so full of your own superiority that you refuse to consider that “the darkis” who are receptive to your ideas may have their own agenda with a radically different end game from what you are aiming for.

But they go along with you beacuse they see your idealism as a naivete that will get them what they want.

What makes you assume that the people that I work with are white? I work with people of all races, colours and creeds. You are the one who assumes that they are white because that is your world view. [/quote]

Where did I write that the people you work with are white? I would assume they would mostly be Mexicans. I was assuming you are white. Because you sound like someone who is white.

Poland is second world. There is not that much difference. They are a poor country with a standard of living much lower than a first world country. It is an undsiputable fact that competition brings down prices. When workers in a first world labour market are opened up to competition from second and third world workers wages are not going to remain the same in that job martket.

Metropolitan Detroit has a huge Polish American community. Hamtramck is a city inside the city of Detroit that was almost %100 Polish and one of the neighboring areas of Detroit used to be called Poletown. I have a lot of good friends who are Polish. The issue of the mass immigration of Poles into Britain isn’t about being anti Polish. It is about the effect they have had upon wages and the standard of living. One good thing about them Poles is since they are Catholics they will offset the high birthrates of the muslims. The bad thing about them is as soon as they have a nestegg saved a lot of them intend to go back to Poland and get out of the shithole that Britain has become.

96

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:

It is not my Tory party, I voted for them for lack of a better option but I fully accept that there are still some total idiots in the party. The difference being that the Tories appeased Hitler in the run up to the Second World War as an effort to buy time to build an army. Yes there were people in the party at the time who sympathised with his views (and probably still are,) but if they voiced their views they would be thrown out of the party. [/quote]

Politics in Britain suck. People in the US think there are no good choices but Britain really has poor choices. I wasn’t referring to the appeasement of the Hitler by Chamberlain. I was referring to the appeasement of the Arab muslims by Chamberlain. Through the Palestine mandate the Tories had control on whether or not the Jews could immigrate into their ancestral homeland. When Hitler put a group of Jews on a ship to see if anyone else in the world wanted to take them the Tories would not let them go to Palestine, instead they sent them back to Hitler.

[quote]
The BNP on the other hand has a paramilitary arm that is named after Adolf Hitler and the leaders and founders are on record as supporting Hitler and denying the Holocaust. [/quote]

I have looked all over their website but I have yet to see any referrence to this paramilitary group named after Adolf Hitler that you refer to. I think you are either lying or greatly exaggerating and misrepresenting ties to a group that broke away from them and went off on their own because they changed their policies and became more mainstream.

[quote]
If you can’t appreciate that subtle difference then you are truly lost.

By the way, not from Essex so try again.[/quote]

You were born within earshot of Bows bells.

97

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:
lixy wrote:
AlisaV wrote:
All right Sifu:

So do you or do you not support locking up US muslims in concentration camps against their will? Straight yes no answer please.[/quote]

Why would that be neccesary? There are lots of islamic countries where they can be quite gfree to practice their religion without without having to be infuriated by our freedoms. I think that simply reuniting them with their own would suffice. So I would have to say no to that.

98

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Anyway Sifu, to save hijacking this thread further it is safe to say we disagree. Your reaction to the oppression of the Burqa is that it should be banned, I feel that using oppression to combat oppression makes no sense and will only serve to enflame the tensions. We both howver agree that the Burqa is wrong.[/quote]

When a young women have been raped, had sulfuric acid thrown in their face and murdered for not wearing the burqa that is oppression. Under such circumstances it is not oppression to free women from such tyranny.

99

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:

The George flag has not been banned anywhere, flags in general have in some places, that is different (but still stupid to my mind). [/quote]

Really?

http://www.goal.com/en/news/9/england/2009/03/20/1166314/arsenal-ban-blackburn-rovers-fans-st-georges-cross

Arsenal Ban Blackburn Rovers Fans’ St George’s Cross
Officials at the Emirates branded England’s national emblem ‘a racist symbol’ last week.
20 Mar 2009 16:39:43

Arsenal stewards have won few friends in one corner of Lancashire this week, after a group of Blackburn Rovers fans revealed that their flag of St George, England’s national flag displayed prominently all over the nation and a source of much pride to many English people, was confiscated as being a ‘racist symbol’.

A group of Rovers fans from the Havelock Inn pub in Blackburn had already unfurled the flag, emblazoned with the slogan ‘Havelock Blues’, at Fulham and Hull City without problems, and the St George’s cross is seen at almost every football stadium in England at every level of the footballing pyramid on any given weekend.

Manchester City fans displayed several last night during their tie with AaB Aalborg in Denmark, and representatives from Chelsea and Manchester United today confirmed to reporters from The Lancashire Evening Telegraph that they have no issue at all with any national flags being displayed at their stadia.

The Rovers fans themselves were left bemused and bewildered by the actions of the stewards.

“When we got there we started putting it out, and the steward came up and told us we couldnâ??t.,” one fan, David Iley told The Evening Telegraph.

“It never entered my head at first that the St George Cross wasnâ??t allowed. I thought it was just that we couldnâ??t put it there,” he continued.

"So we hooked it over the hoardings at the front instead, and the next thing we know a steward was taking it away, saying it could be seen as a racist symbol.

“I couldnâ??t believe it. When we took it to Hull the stewards even helped us put it up. Itâ??s the national flag and it’s absolutely stupid that Arsenal should ban it.”

An Arsenal spokesman explained that the measure dated back to 2006, when a Turkish-Cypriot season ticket holder enraged Greek Cypriots when he displayed a political banner at the Gunners’ stadium in December of that year.

Dan Tolhurst, communications manager at Arsenal, said, “Arsenal as a club prides itself on being inclusive with respect to all nationalities, cultural and ethnic groups. We have therefore decided that in order for all of our fans to enjoy their experience at Emirates Stadium, we are asking that only flags without any national emblems are displayed within the stadium.”

He also confirmed that the ban is lifted for international matches at the ground.

John Newsham, stadium safety manager at Blackburn Rovers, confirmed the Ewood Park outfit held a different perspective to that of their counterparts in London, stating, "We would never comment on the policy of other clubs in relation to flags.

“We have an open approach, providing the flags meet set criteria. For example, flags are vetted for any inappropriate wording which may be considered offensive by the club or any spectators and they must not be draped over emergency exit signs or advertising hoardings.”

[quote]
I am not sure if I agree that race relations in the US are better than the UK but I certainly agree that there are a lot of idiots on local councils. [/quote]

I have lived in both and I can tell you that it is a lot safer to go to an all black night club in Detroit than it is in the UK. Aside from random acts of robbery in Detroit I haven’t experienced blacks just assaulting white people like they do in Britain.

Also Americans aren’t all uptight and paranoid about racism like the British are. On season nine of The Ultimate Fighter we got to see a perfect example of this when Demarques ohnson made a smart ass remark about Michael Bisping being a pasty whiteboy and he got all bent out of shape.

100

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Sifu wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
And I think it’s fine as long as Jews aren’t allowed to wear yamakas, Christians aren’t allowed to wear crosses or any shirt with Jesus or a religious message on it, and other Muslims aren’t allowed to have beards or wear turbans.

While they’re at it, why not just make it that they have to specifically buy from a French clothing company so they can bring their shitty economy back up?

I am not keen on people putting their religion in other peoples faces but that is an absolutely ridiculous comparison. Throughout the world women have been subjected to horrific acts of violence because they were not wearing burqas. The burqa is a tool of subjugation used to keep women as chattel.

So has a bottle of whiskey and a backhand. But the women who stay with those kinds of guys are the same who wear the stupid fuckin burqa. Grow a set and take your rights, but no one will do it for you.
[/quote]

Irish, that’s a pretty dumb statement. They don’t “stay” with those kind of guys. They are born into it. It is not something they choose. Those who try to do otherwise are general beaten.
I understand the french idea of “egalite, liberte and fraternite” but i think this is a welcomed vice. I agree with Sifu.