New to Gear & What I've Gained

Pharma
121

[quote]Herc88 wrote:

‘Too much’ protein will be excreted as urea.

No man, the body turns protein into amino acids, then that is what the body uses to build muscle. If the body doesnt need the amount of protein taking in then the amino acids will be turned into glucose, fat, ketones, or cholesterol. That is way you dont want to take in more then your body needs.
[/quote]

Did you just explain what the body does with protein?

And I am pretty sure it is excess calories which turns a body fat, not excess protein.

122

You’re pics: You can have achieved these results and saved a lot of money from a 12 week cycle of stacking Burger King, McDonalds, a Chinese buffet, and PCT consisting of Dairy Queen.

124

DAY 61:

250 lbs
52in chest
17in arms

Loss of gains? Not so far! (Sorry to all you negitative, know it all, Ass Hole’s)

Much more power and size.
Waiting 3-6mo’s to cut!!!
I may do a cutting cycle but will try thermo’s first.

My workouts have not suffered too much post cycle. I notice a little soreness during workouts but tolerable. Power has not diminished much and still able to push out a tough workouts like before. Post workout recovery is not bad, little soreness.

Still on HCG 250IU & Noladex 20mg. Nut’s are starting to return as well as drive, however volume still a little low. Suppliment intake is still high.

Acne is the recent problem… Sux!

Protein intake: 1-2gms per lbs of bodyweight is not excessive!!! 432gm @ 2440 cals has not been a problem at all other than taste and not wanting to eat after all the protein I take! I had to learn how to drink all the protein I take. Protein Caloric intake is around 2000-2800. It seems when I drink protein, I stay full for hours so I don’t eat.

I cut back some protein when I do eat. I take BCAA’s & L-Glutamine seperately pre & post workouts. My plan is to stay on this diet as it’s working well for me.

125

[quote]Med Pro wrote:
Day 5:

Some Water Weight so I took some Lasix to help. Lasix made me have a little nausea upset stomache and little dizzy (not from volume loss) but works well. Been doing 30 min cardio at lunch with a sustained HR of 170+. BP still norm & Lasix should help drop it a little. No problem w/ potassium deficit.

Overall my enery level is good with little to no fatuige. 2 days before my second injections. This time I’m going to mix Deca & Sus250 in the same syringe and use a deeper needle like an 18 guage. Last time I use a 22 guage blue tipped needle.

I’ve also added Andro-D Gel twice daily.
4-Androstenediol
Progesterone
Chrysin

Figure it couldn’t hurt.

Still eatting “3 lbs” of lean meat and lots of hot sause.

So far I don’t really see any trouble & BTW my urin still checks out well. I’m more concerned with hematuria.
Maybe just a tiny bit of acne however I’ve been sweeting alot more with cardio…

[/quote]

dude, why are you taking Progesterone?

126

Hi med Pro,

Nice thread you have here. I have read/skimmed through all of it over the past 3-4 weeks or so.

First, congratulations on the effort and cycle you just went through. It seems to me the anabolics you took gave you a determination you some how lacked before.

While on this cycle, it seems from my reading; that you have dieted, supplemented, trained, monitored everything, and finally learned more and applied yourself more than you ever have before.

So it was juice that gave you the excuse to diet, supplement, train, monitor so religously. So what. Realize, you did it with the juice. You can do it without. You can improve your gains through diet, supplementation, training monitoring, etc, alone. You dont need juice.

However, it seems from my reading the juice gave you some “kick” to apply yourself harder. You felt that juicing your efforts would be more worth while. In my opinion, you learned to “feel” whether you were on track or not.

I appreciate your attitude. You received a large amount of criticism in this thread. You took it very well, and I admire you for your open minded nature and not taking the criticism too harshly.

I can relate on some level with your experience. This post is about you, so I will spare you my explanation of my experience and how we are similar.

I think you have learned a few things here I would like to point out, hopefully to help you.

  1. you learned to apply yourself. You monitored your calories and how they broke down, workout, blood, overall health, etc. It seems you looked at everything and how to optimize it. You made changes, and did what you know works.

  2. You learned to “feel.” You wrote often about how your workouts “felt.” Whether you felt motivated, or lethargic, or sore, or stronger, to push or to go home.

Now you need to relaize you can put this all together without the juice. You started as a big dude, obviously strong. If you cut that frame up from the beginning without juice, you would have been squashing the head between your thumb and forefinger of those: “dudes that work out 50% less intense then I have bigger arms and are ripped.” Metaphorically speaking, but hopefully you understand; I think you started with a better base than those guys that seemed to have bothered you.

Walk away from this knowing to apply yourself to get maximum gains, “feel” what is working toward your goal, and know you dont need the juice to do it.

In my opinion you learned a lot about training here and don’t realize what you have learned.

127

why do people feel the need to constantly tell juicers they don’t need the gear. we know that we just choose to take them.

bottom line you can accomplish on juice in 3 months of focused dedication what it takes a year or more to do without it.

if you have the money and the intelligence to do a proper cycle then i say all the more power to you.

even with a crappy workout and nutrition plan on gear you will see results. they are only really impressive if you really apply yourself but they blow away what you can do naturally.

do i need to take juice to get results - no. am i going to continue to do it - yes. because i can and i like it.

just my 2 cents.

FG

[quote]Petedacook wrote:
Hi med Pro,

Nice thread you have here. I have read/skimmed through all of it over the past 3-4 weeks or so.

First, congratulations on the effort and cycle you just went through. It seems to me the anabolics you took gave you a determination you some how lacked before.

While on this cycle, it seems from my reading; that you have dieted, supplemented, trained, monitored everything, and finally learned more and applied yourself more than you ever have before.

So it was juice that gave you the excuse to diet, supplement, train, monitor so religously. So what. Realize, you did it with the juice. You can do it without. You can improve your gains through diet, supplementation, training monitoring, etc, alone. You dont need juice.

However, it seems from my reading the juice gave you some “kick” to apply yourself harder. You felt that juicing your efforts would be more worth while. In my opinion, you learned to “feel” whether you were on track or not.

I appreciate your attitude. You received a large amount of criticism in this thread. You took it very well, and I admire you for your open minded nature and not taking the criticism too harshly.

I can relate on some level with your experience. This post is about you, so I will spare you my explanation of my experience and how we are similar.

I think you have learned a few things here I would like to point out, hopefully to help you.

  1. you learned to apply yourself. You monitored your calories and how they broke down, workout, blood, overall health, etc. It seems you looked at everything and how to optimize it. You made changes, and did what you know works.

  2. You learned to “feel.” You wrote often about how your workouts “felt.” Whether you felt motivated, or lethargic, or sore, or stronger, to push or to go home.

Now you need to relaize you can put this all together without the juice. You started as a big dude, obviously strong. If you cut that frame up from the beginning without juice, you would have been squashing the head between your thumb and forefinger of those: “dudes that work out 50% less intense then I have bigger arms and are ripped.” Metaphorically speaking, but hopefully you understand; I think you started with a better base than those guys that seemed to have bothered you.

Walk away from this knowing to apply yourself to get maximum gains, “feel” what is working toward your goal, and know you dont need the juice to do it.

In my opinion you learned a lot about training here and don’t realize what you have learned.

[/quote]

128

[quote]FuriousGeorge wrote:

why do people feel the need to constantly tell juicers they don’t need the gear. we know that we just choose to take them.

just my 2 cents.

FG

[/quote]

I totally agree. I have not tried AAS, but I came to T-Nation to gain more knowledge and make an intelligent decision for myself. I wonder if the same people that criticize AAS use, also scrutinize others of smoking and drinking? It also appears that many critics have never tried AAS.

129

I am not against juicing for people that have learned to train, apply diet and supplements, and work hard.

If you read through this post you will see Med pro had been training 1.5 years with little results, he did not loose much weight nor put on much muscle, he did not diet, did not supplement, and was frustrated because people in the gym he goes to were seemingly getting better results.

I, Like many other people, do not recommend steroids for someone like this. Read the first several pages of this thread.

In my time I have taken 2 cycles of testosterone cypionate. I loved it, and I would do it again. Though I would not do it now because I am just getting back into working out. It just doesn’t make any sense because I am putting muscle on fast enough due to muscle memory. I will wait until the gains slow because I have maxed out the muscle memory, not when I am making decent gains without anabolics.

To quote Goirja from the beginning of this thread on page 1:

[quote]
"It’s like putting a nitrous injection system on a Yugo while you are still learning to drive it. All you are gonna do is crash and burn.

Learn to drive the car first.

The secret is there is no secret…just a lot of hard work and a lot of hours spent under the bar. [/quote]

Read the thread, I am not the only one with this opinion.

130

Medpro,

I appreciate you taking the time to post what you could while doing this “experiment” with your body on these “Supplements”!

I’m sure there are alot of voyeurs out there not posting.

I hope you gain everything you want.

I hope you continue to post.

Thanks for your time!

131

[quote]Med Pro wrote:
I’m 6’0 & 235lbs. I have worked out in the gym for 18mo with no clear diet or supplement plan. I have worked on low carb with some success but not hard core. I still have a big spare tire and big belly. I look big when my shirt is not tucked in but very bad with my shirt off. I look like a fat football player in my eyes but people think I look good. I got em fooled. In high school I was 185-198lbs. I weighed 205lbs when I got out of the army 6years later. I shot up to 256 and looked bad @ 36years old and very poor health. BP was 250-260, Cholesterol was 244 and I would get chest pain. Many times outside the ER debating to go in.

After dropping down to 209 lbs in 46day (atkins) I started up in the gym a few mo later. Slowly crept up to 235lbs and still working out HARD 3x’s a week no cardio.

I bench & 355lbs2X. Curl 135lbs 5x’s, Big non defined chest and 16" small looking arms with a hint of delts. I’m strong! stronger then 90% of the people in my gym. I CANNOT UNDRESTAND why dudes that work out 50% less intense then I have bigger arms and are ripped?

So I decided to get help. I researched many articles & settled on 500mg of Sustanon 250 (250 mg per ml) and 400mg of Deca Durabolin (50mg per 1ml) So I’m shooting 10ml/cc of oil based steroids. I went to Los Algodones Mexico just 10min SW of Yuma AZ. All their pharmacies require no prescription. However the Boarder check point guys will check bags. They do not check pockets. I took small sterile alcohol bottles and filled them up with the gear I bought. I bought Sustanon250 (250mg per ml @ $11.50 per amp) & Deca Durabolin (50mg per ml @ $22.00 per amp). Very expensive for 10 weeks but hope it’s worth it. Also got 40 taps of Novadex @ $10 per box & Clenbuterol 20tabs for $7.00. They have many types of steroids but be specific. They have dictionaries of drugs but be prepared. There are many names for the same Steroid. I printed a list of the stuff I wanted which helped!

I also wanted to add protein. I figure this is were I’ll gain bigger arms & legs. How the hell do I eat 470mg of protein!!! I ate 2 scoops of protein w 8oz of milk, 4eggs, 6oz of cheese =100gm of protein. Very full!!! 2 cans of tuna in a tuna melt & 8oz of cheese. 2scoops of protein. Very Full… Help! I’m also using liquid amino’s, Creatine, Liquid Centum, Yabomine, Meca, Zinc, etc.

DAY 1: I started Sunday Sept 03, 2006. Today Just to mess around I was able to press 380lbs 2x’s and cable curl went from 40lbs to 90lbs! I was Leg pressing 540lbs without any trouble. 4 sets of 5 until a huge cramp hit my hams! I should have stretched!

Initial assessment is VeRy Big Strength gains!!! No fatigue! It’s weird, I only notice failure do to my inability to lift max weight however no pain.

I got home and a 100 degree fever started. The area of injection is hot and mildly swollen however I understand this is normal. Took 2 Tylenol and fever is better. Legs were crampy for a few hrs but better now.

This stuff is very working well so far! My goal is to mass up my arms, chest legs, rip my abs and lose the spare tire.

[/quote]

You dont sound so healthy

132

[quote]Petedacook wrote:
I am not against juicing for people that have learned to train, apply diet and supplements, and work hard.

If you read through this post you will see Med pro had been training 1.5 years with little results, he did not loose much weight nor put on much muscle, he did not diet, did not supplement, and was frustrated because people in the gym he goes to were seemingly getting better results.

I, Like many other people, do not recommend steroids for someone like this. Read the first several pages of this thread.
[/quote]

You make a valid argument, but personally I find most supplements to be garbage, although I have not tried them all. I also have read that the lower your BF% when a cycle is started the better your overall gains will be. Although I am not sure, physiologically speaking, why a lower BF% would matter?

Possibly the OP felt he had plateaued and needed a little help to get over it. So, I do agree with some of the points you have made.

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DAY 72:
Sorry for the lack of posting. I have had a lot of business in Phoenix. So far my progress has been good. Two weeks ago I was concerned because my strength and energy levels were the lowest I have experienced since ending my cycle. This lasted for about a week. My Nolvadex and HCG cycle ended last week. Since then I feel much better. My weight is 247lbs and size has not changed.

I appreciate the previous posts and tend to follow some of the advice given. There were some very interesting philosophies about what I have done.
An excellent article I found in Flex magazine October 2005. It is a 16 step guide to developing a perfect supplementation plan written by Jim Stoppani PhD science editor, which I now model my diet by. Check this out.
Step 1: Immediately after waking up 20g whey isolate protein because during sleep your body breaks down muscle to get amino acids for conversion into energy. Catabolic stopage with 20g of quick digesting amino acids will replace what was lost during the night. Having 20g of protein before breakfast will not interfere with absorbtion.

Step 2: 30 minutes after protein 5g arginine, 5g glutamine, 5g amino. Arginine and glutamine amino’s boost growth hormone. Arginine stimulates nitric oxide production to increase blood flow and nerve function to muscles. Glutamine improves digestion, enhances immunity and promotes recovery. Provides energy by supplying muscels with important metabolic intermediates. Amino’s are taken for anti catabolic and anabolic effects, promoting growth in recovery. Optimize uptake is without food to compete for absorbtion. This is why you sould wait 30 minutes before breakfast and 30 minutes after protein.

Step 3: Whole food breakfast and multi vitamin and minerals. 1g of C, 400IU E, 1g Calcium, 3g Fish Oil. Most vitamins require whole foods to optimize digestion uptake. Vitamin C, D, E, B, A. Zinc, copper, chromium are all involved in anti oxidents and synhesis of hormones, amino acids and collagen. Anti oxidents protect cells from damage and allows them to work more effeciently.

Vitamin C stengthens muscles and plays an important role in healing injuries. It also destroys free radicals created by training and other stresses. Vitamin E prolongs red blood cell life necessary for oxygenating muscles. Calcium regulates muscle contractions for lifting and flexing and helps to aid in fat loss. Fish Oils help prevent muscle breakdown and improve muscle growth, enhances joint healing, improves brain function and aids in fat loss.

step 4: One hour after breakfast 1 1/2g acetyl L-Carnitine which enhances fat metabolism, enhances muscle recovery and increases testosterone receptors muscle. Best taken on empty stomach.

step 5: Mid morning 2 hours after breakfast and at least one hour before lunch. 40g of slow digested casein protein to provide amino’s to muscles for up to 7hours. To keep them in an anabolic state of optimize growth.

step 6: Lunch with whole food proteins.

step 7: Mid afternoon, one hour after lunch. 1 1/2g of acetyl L-Carnitine to aid in fat metabolism.

step 8: One to two hours pre workout. 400mg caffeine to help boost training intensity, focus and reduces muscle pain during exercise.

step 9: One hour pre workout. 500mg Tribulus Terrestris which influences the brain to release luteinizing hormone into the blood stream which influences testosterone production and taken only on training days.

step 10: 30 minutes pre workout. 5g Arginine, 5g glutamine and 5g amino’s. Glutamine before workout provides energy to muscles, aids in bicarbonate production, prevents muscle fatigue. Amino’s are direct energy for muscles needed for workouts. Taking amino’s prevents stored amino’s in muscles from being broken down.

step 11: Immediately pre workout. 20g fast digesting whey protein isolate ensures essential amino availability for muscle growth and energy, 40g carbs, 5g creatine and 500mg of alpha lypoic acid. Creatine drives water into muscles temporarily making them stronger during workout to stimulate muscle growth. Alpha lypoic acid is and effective anti oxident that also improves muscle glucose and creatine uptake.

step 12: Immediately post workout. 5g glutamine to help govern protein synthesis for muscle gain and is a powerful cell volumizer to help stimulate muscle growth and inhibits muscle breakdown. 5g amino’s used to increase secretion of insulin anabolic hormone to drive glucose, amino’s and creatine into muscle cells and furthur stimulating protein synthesis.

step 13: 30 minutes post workout. 50g whey protein to provide more amino acids for recovery growth process. Also 100g simple carbs to replenish muscle glycogen. Carbs curb cortisol release following workouts. Cortisol impedes the anabolic process of muscle growth.

Fast digesting carbs spike insulin levels to stimulate protein synthesis and drive glucose, amino’s and creatine into muscles. Also taken is 5g creatine to replenish muscle creatine levels and provides anti oxident like protection after training. Also taken is 500mg of alpha lypoic acid which enhances creatine glucose and amino’s to enter muscle cells and is an anti oxident to prevent damage to muscles following exercise.

step 14: Dinner, multi vitamin and mineral, 1g C and 3g fish oil.

step 15: 30min before bedtime. 30mg zinc, 450mg magnesium, 11mg B6. ZMA prevents negative effects of overtraining. Boosts anabolic hormones such as testosterone and growth factor-I and improves quality of sleep best taken on an empty stomach.

step 16: just before bed. 40g casein protein to get you through the night for up to 7 hours to prevent nocturnal muscle catabolism.

Bodybuilding is truly a way of life! For those who take AAS’s and lose mass after doing so do not have the discipline to maintain what they have gained. Over traing is another factor to destruction.

I have now started to take thermogenics, ECA’s, relacore, lipo-6, .02mg clenbuterol and still maintaining 350 - 400g protein. I am eating lower calorie foods and avoiding fats.

134

Med Pro,

Do you know if I can get Nolvadex without a prescription?

135

[quote]Petedacook wrote:
Med Pro,

Do you know if I can get Nolvadex without a prescription? [/quote]

Sorry bro. I drive to Mexico to get my stuff. You can maybe drive to Canada.

136

[quote]Petedacook wrote:
Med Pro,

Do you know if I can get Nolvadex without a prescription? [/quote]

Today I think that the question is “is there anything that you cannot get without a prescription.” Legality is an other issue.

137

I have nothing against steroids but damn man…you fucked up.

Seems like all the compulsive AAS users are making this guy their moronic mascot.

You have got to be kidding me if you ‘congratulate’ this guy on his ‘hard work’. He took the route to an ‘awesome physique’(lol) like a 16 year old dumb ass.

Your workout plan, diet, and overall knowledge suck. So does your physique. Hopefully you will come across something through your subscription to Flex that will give you the secret you need to your desired bodybuilder look!

Good luck with your body after your ‘cycle’ if you ever do really end it. The position you are at in the learning curve of your body is laughable, so good luck with any future results, because, you will surely need it.

138

[quote]arDieselar wrote:
I have nothing against steroids but damn man…you fucked up.

Seems like all the compulsive AAS users are making this guy their moronic mascot.

You have got to be kidding me if you ‘congratulate’ this guy on his ‘hard work’. He took the route to an ‘awesome physique’(lol) like a 16 year old dumb ass.

Your workout plan, diet, and overall knowledge suck. So does your physique. Hopefully you will come across something through your subscription to Flex that will give you the secret you need to your desired bodybuilder look!

Good luck with your body after your ‘cycle’ if you ever do really end it. The position you are at in the learning curve of your body is laughable, so good luck with any future results, because, you will surely need it.

[/quote]
Thanks for the rip you Negative ass! What a dick! Another ass who thinks he has the ultimate answer to steroid cycles and diets!

OKay you ass… what is your idea of how it should be done!!! I posted what I did… What do you do??? As a matter of fact… WHAT DOES ANYONE DO?

139

[quote]Med Pro wrote:
Thanks for the rip you Negative ass! What a dick! Another ass who thinks he has the ultimate answer to steroid cycles and diets!

OKay you ass… what is your idea of how it should be done!!! I posted what I did… What do you do??? As a matter of fact… WHAT DOES ANYONE DO? [/quote]

Whatever it is that you’re not doing.

140

Meh, i dont really care if the others don’t like that you are using AAs… Even if they do make a valid point, you can do what you like. Its great you feel you are progressing. I wish you the best of luck.

I will say though, alot of those posts you see as “negative” now contain information that would be handy when you are done and may wish to simplify your approach. Something which i think you are going to have to do in the end. So when your cycle is over, you should explore new options in your training and nutrition. I think you would be surprised at what you could do, maybe even making your reasons for this cycle look silly.