New to Cycles

Pharma
21

[quote]bbb1080 wrote:
Ive heard varying accounts. Taking a low dose throughout would end up being more HCG, maybe higher risk of desensitization? at 5000 IU total, desensitization is a very low risk, but im admittedly not an authority on this
I am so freaking confused now, haha.
back to bone… I will be combining 150mg of deca with each 400 mg T400 shot. So 300 mg/week. You had side effects with this dose? If so were they nullified with the clomifene? what was the dose used? Ive only came across clomifene in relation to off label use to offset the effects of SSRI’s.
Im not too worried about the joint lubrication, I was mainly using it to counter the pain of the T-400. im not super familiar with cutting it with sterile oil, where do you get it? which oil is prefered?
[/quote]

You dont remember your phys very well = )… Desensitization in GPCR is caused by acute overload of active PKA (as well as adenylyl cyclase but that is inferred)… A high dose will have a more powerful effect on the receptor, especially considering the long half life of HcG. You haven’t taken Pcol yet, have you?

22

We dont have to take pcol, scary eh? haha. I do agree that a lower dose is better, i just think a low dose for a few weeks post cycle is better for restarting. If I split the HCG into 4 or five 1000 IU injections over 2 weeks or so, that shouldn’t pose a problem no? Like I said im the first to admit I’m not an authority on this, hence why Im here talking to all of you (thanks so much by the by). Whats an effective way of splitting up a 5000 IU amp of HCG anyways?

I agree that the deca is overkill, ill try the oil method. I have been reading into the prolactin thing, and I would really just prefer to not screw with that whole axis unnecessarily.

23

I know much less than the large lions fan about hCG but my line of thinking is why attempt to restart your balls with hCG if you can avoid the shrinkage in the first place by using the hCG in low dose during the cycle.

24

Clinically its 6 and one half dozen the other. It takes less to restart than to maintain for 10 wks, maybe less risk of desensitization to LH. There are virtues to both methods no doubt. So you can just run grapeseed oil thru a filter and its all good to inject? seems like sterility is an issue. Where can you buy the sterile oil at, Id feel better with less risk of abscess and septicemia.

25

Your T400 is from a UGL I assume? It’s sterilized by running the oil through a filter. Bacteria are too large to get through the pores.

You can do a google search for sterile oil from a lab supply site. It’s not illegal to buy at all. I don’t remember the name of the site I’ve seen off hand.

26

Good call. So you just sterilize the bottle that the oil is filtered into with something else? whats your preference as to the protocol? wheres the easiest place to pick up the filters? I hate sterile procedure, we are barraged with it every freaking day.

27

The best idea would be to get a few large presealed sterile vials. 30ml is plenty for this purpose. Actually pretty much any size would work. Then you’d need a large volume syringe. 10ml or larger. The bigger they get the harder they are to work with (that’s what she said). Draw in the desired amount of supermarket oil. Attach the filter. Filter the oil into the sterile vial. Then you’d need to transfer the AAS to the vial with the plain oil. This is assuming the t400 doesn’t have enough room to add enough oil to it.

Actually getting presterilized oil would be less of a hassel but you’d still have the problem of not having enough room to add the sterile oil to the vial with the AAS. And that’s where I run out of ideas. Anyone else should feel free to add.

Why not just get better AAS? Straight test E that doesn’t sting.

28

You’re in an American med school?

If you’re using low doses at proper timer intervals desensitization def wont be an issue. 1000iu at each dosing, eh, is better, but probably un-necessarily high. If you would prefer to use it for less amount of weeks though you could use it for the last 4 weeks of cycle at either 100iu qod or 250iu E3D. Enough time to restart the good ol boys, but you can still have your piece of mind.

Just a little bit of advice, buy a pcol book and read in your few off moments. There is nothing worse than intern who is clueless about drugs.

Good luck = )

29

haha, no, im in a canadian med school.
I’m curious about straight test E. If I was to get Test E a lot of my issues would be resolved. I really dont need the strength of T400, not now anyways. Whats a good cycle, considering that I’m gonna take 20mg AI qd and a nolva/clomid PCT. HCG I think i will stick with for PCT but i would like to keep the dose at 1000IU.
PS- This is super informative, I appreciate you guys taking the time to help me out. Im pretty anxious about the whole cycle, this is helping me gain a state of mind. thanks.

30

also I’m completely ignorant of the frontloading thing. Would that help with a Test E cycle?

31

500mg per week is the standard first cycle. 2 shots of enanthate per week.

Frontloading will definitely help. It helps with any ester but is more valuable for medium and long esters that would otherwise take 3+ weeks for the levels to build up.

Do a search on it and ask a question if you dont understand some part of it. Search ‘frontload formula’.

Do not use the hCG in the weeks you are using the SERM for PCT. HCG suppresses natural testosterone. You want to avoid that when using the SERM to recover. If you don’t want to use it throughout, use it a few weeks before PCT starts for a few weeks.

32

Disparate effect of clomiphene and tamoxifen on pituitary gonadotropin release in vitro. Adashi EY, Hsueh AJ, Bambino TH, Yen SS. Am J Physiol 1981 Feb;240(2):E125-30

This one states that clomid is weakly estrogenic at the pituitary (not the hypothalamus- my bad) either way it weakly inhibits LH and FSH. not great. Im thinking about ditching clomid too. so heres where Im at:

wk 1-10- 600-800mg Test E/week – split into 2 injections?
wk 1-10- 20 mg aromasin qd

wk 13- start HCG 1000 IU x 5 doses spread 4 days apart
wk 13-17 (long enough?) nolva 40 40 20 20

hows this looking? maybe add a frontload?

33

seems that the dbol frontload is most popular. at 30 mg ed, is it injectable?

34

Lol so despite the fact that you risk no de-sensitization with smaller doses, you still are going to go with an un-necessarily high doses. That is illogical in my opinion, but do what you like.

PS that articles states that, Clomiphene exert a direct estrogenic rather than an antiestrogenic effect on cultured pituitary cells by enhancing the GnRH-stimulated release of gonadotropin.

I can’t pull up the full article, I can try tomorrow at a different database to elicit the actual results displayed.

35

I may still drop the HCG to lower, maybe 500 IU.
You’re totally right about the clomid, as I said earlier. I’m going to ditch it in favor of just nolva and HCG PCT. Whats your opinion on a good frontload for Test E?

36

The use of dbol (or any oral/fast acting drug) at the front of a cycle is known as a kickstart. The downside of this is that test and dbol have synergistic effects and if the dbol is used before the test is fully working you miss out on the synergy.

When I frontload for a 500mg/wk T cycle (what I am currently using) I simply injected 500mg on day 1 and 250mg 3.5 days later. Then kept on with the 250mg every 3.5 days. It’s not as scientific as the formula is but it satisfies me.

If you frontload, which I recommend, I’d also recommend shortening the cycle to 8 weeks. 8 weeks of test E = 10 weeks of supression. 8 weeks will give plenty of gains.

37

makes sense. I was thinking 750 mg/wk test e. With a 50mg/day front load of oral dbol, maybe milk thistle to help out my liver.

38

I ran less than that on my third cycle. And am running much less than that now. Just for perspective. Likely nothing bad will happen if you do that but the gains you would make on considerably less would easily satisfy you. I am positive everyone will agree with me on that last point.

39

yeah, i think you’re right. I was thinking every three days inject 250mg (can adjust that down too) with the first being 500mg (kickstart), from your suggestion, and 50mg dbol daily for 4 weeks. As far as PCT it’ll go:

HCG- 500 IU daily for 3 weeks
Aromasin- 20 mg daily for 4 weeks
Nolvadex- 20 mg daily for 6 weeks

Assuming my endocrinologist preceptor agrees with it. This has changed a lot, thanks again for the input, it has saved me a bunch of hassle and money

40

Why are you doing a typical bodybuilding style cycle, while your goal is to maintain/improve olympic lifting performance? I assume that you have achieved 182.5 clean and jerk @ 94kg weightclass natually, which is very good.
A typical weightlifting PED program would consist

  1. low dose oral
  2. low dosage of testosterone and or other designer drugs
  3. HGH indefinitely

I think you can put up close to 220 kg clean and jerk in 5 year. If you run a proper drug program.

If you just want to maintain strength, then 5mg of dbol every day or 10mg of OT will do the job. I can hit new PRs if i just use 10mg of dbol for 10 days.On the other hand, you will probably feel nothing after 10 day into a test-e cycle, with roughly 1000mg of test-e (700mg test base) already injected.
I would recommend that you cycle between orals and testosterone back to back, stay on for about 9 months minimum out of a year. Come off AAS during winter for a couple of months, and have a break. Run HGH indefinitely, it is crucial to long term injury prevention.

I would recommend the following cycle.
Cyele A

Week 1-6
roughly 30mg of orals
10mg Dbol + 20mg Anavar or 30mg OT
Nolvadex 10mg ED (for lipid support)
HCG 1000IU per week, 3 injections
HGH 2mg/5-6IU 3x per week.
AI optional

Cycle B

Week 1-6
Testosterone Suspension 30mg-50 ED
HGH 2mg/5-6IU 3x per week
AI of choice

Cycle C

Week 1-X
Testosterone Suspension 30mg ED
Dromostanonlone Suspension 30-50mg ED
HGH 2mg/5-6IU 3x per week
AI optional, but probably not needed

Cycle A is a bridge cycle, the orals should be enough to maintain strength. HCG to get your sperm counts back up.
If you follow eastern bloc training system, then cycle B is your bread and butter intensification phase. Use cycle C during pre-contest prep, as it would further improve strength, body composition. But since you are in med school and not competing. You probably don’t need to do that. Just watch your diet and don’t gain too much weight. The availability of dromostanonlone suspension in Canada is pretty low anyway.

Try to limit your total drug usage for the whole year to 10000mg or below. I would say peak twice a year, even if you are not competing.

PS. some people respond better to orals than testosterone. So you can use more orals and less test, if suits you.