Critique Next Cycle

Pharma
1

I’m planning ahead my next cycle and wanted to know what you guys thought of it.

Stats:
5’6
210 lbs
~13%bf (abs easily seen)
Deadlift: 425 lbs
Squat: 405 lbs
Bench: 275 lbs

Diet will consist of 4500 calories or more (depending how much i can eat without regurgitating my meal due to over-eating. it’s happened a handful of times.)

40% protein, 40% carbs, 20% fats

W1-4 40 mg/d DBOL ED
W1-12 700 mg/w Test-E | Dosed E3D
W5-12 400 mg/w Deca | Dosed E3D

W1-12 0.50mg/E3D Arimidex to help prevent ‘aromatasing’
PCT: Stasis/taper

Nolvadex is on hand in case of gyno. However, I’ve been reading nolva may be ineffective while arimidex is in the bloodstream and may even lower levels of adex when combined… (Read Drug interactions: https://online.epocrates.com/noFrame/showPage.do?method=drugs&MonographId=404)

Lastly, I’d like to add some winstrol to appear more vascular but i’m not sure if it will be effective.

2

why are you starting your Deca so late?

Are you frontloading either?

I would run the test at least two weeks past the Deca.

Id consider dropping the fats a little bit, maybe down to 15 or even 10% and just make sure that its mostly EFAs.

3

Starting Deca late is a mistake. It is the longest compound in your cycle. Deca is a straight one week injection also so there is no need for deca E3D. Once a week deca shots are completely fine.

Using only what it shows you have I would redesign this way.

W1-12 TE 700mg/WK E3D
W1-12 Deca 400mg/WK Once a week

I wouldn’t add winny to this cycle. Save it for a cutting cycle.

4

I would go with a shorter cycle to make quick gains and then recover and do a second instead of one longer one.

I would start the Deca earlier and make sure to end the Deca 2 weeks before ending test.

How does an 8 week cycle with test and deca frontloaded sound?

So:

W1-4: DBOL 40 mg/d
W1-8: Test E 700 mg/w
W1-6: Deca 400 mg/w
Adex as needed

You might be able to get away with a standard Nolva PCT after waiting for blood level of test to be below 100mg.

Otherwise stasis/taper is fine after waiting for blood level to be below 100mg.

I don’t know about the winstol. Maybe just focus on diet to avoid two orals.

5

[quote]TrainerinDC wrote:
Starting Deca late is a mistake. It is the longest compound in your cycle. Deca is a straight one week injection also so there is no need for deca E3D. Once a week deca shots are completely fine.

Using only what it shows you have I would redesign this way.

W1-12 TE 700mg/WK E3D
W1-12 Deca 400mg/WK Once a week

I wouldn’t add winny to this cycle. Save it for a cutting cycle.[/quote]

I agreee Winny is not needed and I also agree that he should start the winny every day but let me fix it up a little bit…
W1-12 700mg/week E3D Frontloaded
w1-10 400mg/ND Frontloaded
W1-4 40mg/day Bol
That way you could get a full ten weeks out of both of the compounds and also get some class I/II synergy out of the Bol

6

DH You didnt mention the frontload! Thats like your signature lol

7

[quote]soontobeIFBB wrote:
DH You didnt mention the frontload! Thats like your signature lol[/quote]

Not so fast. Read my post again… :wink:

8

[quote]TrainerinDC wrote:
Starting Deca late is a mistake. It is the longest compound in your cycle. Deca is a straight one week injection also so there is no need for deca E3D. Once a week deca shots are completely fine.

Using only what it shows you have I would redesign this way.

W1-12 TE 700mg/WK E3D
W1-12 Deca 400mg/WK Once a week

I wouldn’t add winny to this cycle. Save it for a cutting cycle.[/quote]

Best follow up post here…short, to the point, accurate.
Nice one DC. You may want to invest in some letro too, call me crazy, but you might wish you had it on this cycle possibly…

Only other thing, your comment about wanting winstrol, “to be more vascular”, sounds silly for a bulking cycle idea.

Use what you need to get what you want done. no more, no less. Get your cycle goals solid, then do the most basic and simple idea to get where you want.

Long story short, bulk or cut? Bulk needs no winstrol for getting vascular, other reasons could merit it’s use to help with e levels, SHBG, etc, but that wasn’t what you sounded like you were up to.

GOod luck dude, looks like you’re gaining some weight and numbers on your lifts now…

ToneBone

9

After reading everyone’s comments, i was aiming more to soontobeIFBB’s suggestion. I don’t know why i started the deca so late…

The cycle will look like this:

W1-12 700mg/week E3D Frontloaded
w1-10 400mg/ND Frontloaded
W1-4 40mg/day Bol

has anyone here ever front loaded before and felt it’s ‘theoritcal’ benefits? I read some say it’s effective, others say it’s ineffective…

Also, DH, why do you suggest short short yet multiple cycles rather than longer cycles?
Would it not be more effective to cycle longer due to the time it takes for test-e to take effect?

The reason i’m saying this is because i don’t like dbol’s bloat & deadly back pumps after a month. Even on dbol, i find it takes 1.5 weeks to feel its effects…

10

[quote]Hussayn wrote:
After reading everyone’s comments, i was aiming more to soontobeIFBB’s suggestion. I don’t know why i started the deca so late…

The cycle will look like this:

W1-12 700mg/week E3D Frontloaded
w1-10 400mg/ND Frontloaded
W1-4 40mg/day Bol

has anyone here ever front loaded before and felt it’s ‘theoritcal’ benefits? I read some say it’s effective, others say it’s ineffective…

Also, DH, why do you suggest short short yet multiple cycles rather than longer cycles?
Would it not be more effective to cycle longer due to the time it takes for test-e to take effect?

The reason i’m saying this is because i don’t like dbol’s bloat & deadly back pumps after a month. Even on dbol, i find it takes 1.5 weeks to feel its effects…[/quote]

So how much are you frontloading your two compounds dude?

I don’t see that you are doing that, it just says such and such per week “frontloaded”.

Frontloading usually means a higher dose than the rest of the cycle per week for that first week or two. So if you’re frontloading then where’s the higher “Frontload” dosage at?

And the short cycles vs. long cycles are different ways of getting to where you want to go sure…“would it not be more effective to cycle longer with test enan…” Yeah of course, short cycles are usually run with short esters for that obvious fucking reason…phenylprop,prop,etc…

DH: 8 weeks for an enan based cycle with deca for 6 fucking weeks? Really? Wow, this place is really out there now…

You’re pretty funny, I’ll give you that. I don’t know why the fuck I even posted on your thread though…

Late nigate.

11

[quote]Hussayn wrote:
After reading everyone’s comments, i was aiming more to soontobeIFBB’s suggestion. I don’t know why i started the deca so late…

The cycle will look like this:

W1-12 700mg/week E3D Frontloaded
w1-10 400mg/ND Frontloaded
W1-4 40mg/day Bol

has anyone here ever front loaded before and felt it’s ‘theoritcal’ benefits? I read some say it’s effective, others say it’s ineffective…

Also, DH, why do you suggest short short yet multiple cycles rather than longer cycles?
Would it not be more effective to cycle longer due to the time it takes for test-e to take effect?

The reason i’m saying this is because i don’t like dbol’s bloat & deadly back pumps after a month. Even on dbol, i find it takes 1.5 weeks to feel its effects…[/quote]

First, let me say that I have never frontloaded yet except for test prop which is fast acting anyway. My suggestion of a shorter cycle comes from reading a lot of Bill Robert’s posts and Brook’s. I still think that it could work since the frontload should get your blood level up almost immediately giving you a multiple week jump start over standard dosing with these esters.

6 weeks may not be optimal for Deca however. I am not sure how it would work being frontloaded. Theoretically you would have 5 weeks of maximal Deca effects (estimating 1 week to feel full effects frontloaded). If you do 10 weeks of Deca normal dosing you would also get about 5+ weeks of max Deca effects.

The difference here is that recovery would be that much harder post cycle. Maybe 8 weeks Deca frontloaded is a good compromise with 10 weeks test e.

I hear you on dbol bloat and back pumps, but the Herculean strength increase and well being make it enticing.

Are you good with frontload calculations?

(weekly dose * half-life days / days in week) + interval dosage = frontload dosage

So for test e:

(700mg * 6 / 7) + 300 = 900 mg first dosage followed by 300 mg E3D for the rest of your cycle.

Deca can be figured the same way with different values for weekly dose, half-life , and interval dosage (maybe once per week or together E3D with your test E). Determine the half-life and plug in the values.

Good luck man and I think that the cycle you are now proposing (below) is also great. You just may see diminishing returns in the last couple of weeks. Instead you could use that time to start recovery. It’s all good

W1-12 700mg/week E3D Frontloaded
w1-10 400mg/ND Frontloaded
W1-4 40mg/day Bol

InTheZone: I remember you being a lot more positive in the past. If I remember correctly you are on the mend from surgery. Are things going well?

Best,

DH

12

[quote]InTheZone wrote:
Hussayn wrote:
After reading everyone’s comments, i was aiming more to soontobeIFBB’s suggestion. I don’t know why i started the deca so late…

The cycle will look like this:

W1-12 700mg/week E3D Frontloaded
w1-10 400mg/ND Frontloaded
W1-4 40mg/day Bol

has anyone here ever front loaded before and felt it’s ‘theoritcal’ benefits? I read some say it’s effective, others say it’s ineffective…

Also, DH, why do you suggest short short yet multiple cycles rather than longer cycles?
Would it not be more effective to cycle longer due to the time it takes for test-e to take effect?

The reason i’m saying this is because i don’t like dbol’s bloat & deadly back pumps after a month. Even on dbol, i find it takes 1.5 weeks to feel its effects…

So how much are you frontloading your two compounds dude?

I don’t see that you are doing that, it just says such and such per week “frontloaded”.

Frontloading usually means a higher dose than the rest of the cycle per week for that first week or two. So if you’re frontloading then where’s the higher “Frontload” dosage at?

And the short cycles vs. long cycles are different ways of getting to where you want to go sure…“would it not be more effective to cycle longer with test enan…” Yeah of course, short cycles are usually run with short esters for that obvious fucking reason…phenylprop,prop,etc…

DH: 8 weeks for an enan based cycle with deca for 6 fucking weeks? Really? Wow, this place is really out there now…

You’re pretty funny, I’ll give you that. I don’t know why the fuck I even posted on your thread though…

Late nigate.[/quote]

Settle down man.

13

[quote]soontobeIFBB wrote:
TrainerinDC wrote:
Starting Deca late is a mistake. It is the longest compound in your cycle. Deca is a straight one week injection also so there is no need for deca E3D. Once a week deca shots are completely fine.

Using only what it shows you have I would redesign this way.

W1-12 TE 700mg/WK E3D
W1-12 Deca 400mg/WK Once a week

I wouldn’t add winny to this cycle. Save it for a cutting cycle.

I agreee Winny is not needed and I also agree that he should start the winny every day but let me fix it up a little bit…
W1-12 700mg/week E3D Frontloaded
w1-10 400mg/ND Frontloaded
W1-4 40mg/day Bol
That way you could get a full ten weeks out of both of the compounds and also get some class I/II synergy out of the Bol[/quote]

I agree with this, the deca can be shot E3d as well since you should and will be shooting the TE E3d. Just because deca ‘can’ be shot once a week doesn’t mean you have too. In my opinion the more frequent the injects the more stable the blood levels are.

14

InTheZone: I remember you being a lot more positive in the past. If I remember correctly you are on the mend from surgery. Are things going well?

Best,

DH[/quote]

DH: Cmon man, yeah I’m still positive, but you recommending a 6 week course of deca is “stretching it” frontload or no frontload…yes?

I’ve just been watching the wheels turn over here as the cycle of “vets” real or not, rotates around over the past year or so, and seeing different people and how they advise others and so forth. Now maybe I got on you a little bit harsh, but I don’t think so…Just called you out on that recommendation is all.

BONEZ: I’m settled, thanks.

Hussayn: To you I do apologize young man. I was out of line with you, and I’m sorry.

How’s that then fellas?

EDIT: Surgery went great, doing well and waiting word on the other delt. Getting back in shape currently and it’s going pretty damn good. Thanks for asking Dynamo…

Sorry again to all of the above mentioned guys.

15

How worthwhile would it be to frontload Test E when you’re using Dbol for the first few weeks?

I ask because I’m getting ready to do a similar cycle, and had anticipated the dbol being the “kick-start” while waiting for the T to really kick in.

16

[quote]Willith wrote:
How worthwhile would it be to frontload Test E when you’re using Dbol for the first few weeks?

I ask because I’m getting ready to do a similar cycle, and had anticipated the dbol being the “kick-start” while waiting for the T to really kick in.[/quote]

Theoretically it would be very worthwhile since blood levels of test e would be at maximal levels almost immediately as opposed to after 3-5 weeks. That allows you to max out your cycle or even shorten it a little and recover easier with the same gains as a longer cycle. It was my experience that the last 3 weeks or so of an 11 week cycle of test e provided diminishing returns.

The dbol is an added bonus with or without the frontload. Your choice: cycle with full test e benefits from the beginning or cycle with full test e benefits at some later point.

Again I get my theoretical info from what I glean from this forum. It would be good to hear from those whom have actually lived it to see what the consensus is.

InTheZone: I hear you on my 6 week Deca recommendation. It is counterintuative with such a long ester. I have heard good things from Brook on short frontloaded Deca cycles even down to 6 weeks. Bill Roberts has also been contributing a lot of knowledge on the benefits of shorter cycles. I have not used Deca, but I find these vet’s offerings (which are often unconventional) to have sound logic.

For example look at Bill Robert’s recent views on the test stasis/taper. No one was disputing the strategy. He came out and said that that method as outlined was stringing out PCT unnecessarily because stasis of 100mg/w was commenced prior to blood levels having dropped below 100mg with esters like test e (medium to long esters). He suggested calculating when the half-life of the compound would actually be below that mark prior to adding any more to the mix during stasis even if that means not pinning at all for an additional week or so.

Great to hear your surgery results, recovery and training are all going so well. I remember you were quite concerned. Godspeed on your other delt!!

17

[quote]Willith wrote:
How worthwhile would it be to frontload Test E when you’re using Dbol for the first few weeks?

I ask because I’m getting ready to do a similar cycle, and had anticipated the dbol being the “kick-start” while waiting for the T to really kick in.[/quote]

I would still personally frontload the TE. Hoping the test kicks in faster and then I will have a week or two of running off of TEST and DBOL…instead of just noticing the DBOL and once off that have my TEST kick in…

my .02

18

What about frontloading the test and deca and start the dbol in week 3 or so? Why not have all three working together for as long as possible? That’s what I plan to do when/if I try test/deca/dbol

19

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
What about frontloading the test and deca and start the dbol in week 3 or so? Why not have all three working together for as long as possible? That’s what I plan to do when/if I try test/deca/dbol [/quote]

Thats what I would do as well.

20

Personally I like dbol to kickstart my cycle. It takes a bit for the longer esters to jump. For me personally the dbol gives me some instant gratification, and gets me ready to be on cycle. I just like the way it gets me ready to kick ass on this cycle.

I always start my cycles with dbol if i’m using it.