How many pounds over a goal weight should someone shoot for in order to cut down to it? Say I want to be a lean 165 should I shoot for 175 and then cut from there? I think I started a little too high w/ my macro’s and I seemed to gain 3lbs and instead of cutting it I might as well start my bulk phase. What do you guys think?
I’ve been cutting for a month, and I’ve lost 5lbs. This is not a good return for the effort I’ve been putting in. Plus, I expected to lose more because I’ve just started. I didn’t lose any weight last week. My body seems to adapt to lower cals quickly.
I know I still need to get used to the new workout routine, but I’m still not losing much to say I’m only eating 1800 cals a day! Maybe the carb-ups could be cleaner, but after dieitng for most of the last 2 years (with the odd break) it’s hard to keep motivated. The exercise is the bit I like, it’s the reduced cals that makes me suffer.
Anyone got any advice?
Hey App,
y r u eating so little.
I feel ya on the not losing though, since I started this diet I have gained 3lbs and 1% bf. Howwever Iam getting very strong and BIG! I like that feeling but I want the 6% bf and the abds poppin. I think we all just have to be patient and give it time. Doc D says that in his book. You have to get fully adjusted but I think you should be eating more man. Just my thoughts.
MUggz,
I did the same thing, do what you want. Whats your GOAL? If you want to gain size I would say shoot for 20lbs over your ideal. Now i say this cuz if you fall short its ok, maybe you gain 10-12lbs. I’m sure you want to gain lean mass, it is very hard and you have to be consistent and strict w/ everything. Nutrition, rest, exercise, supps, all of it. If you want to gain I’m pretty sure you multiply your bodyweight by 16 than add about 4-600 extra cals to that. Your gonna wanna eat 1.5-2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight over 6-8 meals a day.
OOOOOOOOO YEA and an 8oz piece of chicken breast is 186cals i believe, 4g of fat. I have to check my nbk. I’ll let you know!
O yea I should be getting my new supps in soon. HELL YEA.!
Excited about the XPAND…
I ordered some other stuff too, Like i posted I am currently studying to be a personal trainer (ISSA) and have been learning about a lot of new/good stuff. I’ll let you guys know how the new supps kick in. I’ll tell you what right now though, If your not getting ur BCAA’s I would recommend you buy them. I have posted the ones I use by NX Labs, I have been on them for a month now and am def reaping the benfits.
The AD is starting to kick in I feel. I feel great nowadays, plenty of energy and a lot of strength. I gotta say the carb ups arent that great for me. I dont crave/eat any junk really. I have been so strict for so long that I knoe whats bad for me and dont really wanna eat it. I honestly love the protein, meat, fish, chicken, etc.
The clean up is going well. I think that is also helping me. I am getting my weight checked and bf tested this weekend hopefully. I will let you know whats going on and if I have lost anything. If I haven’t I will decrease my total cals by 100-150 cals. I will have to see whats up.
HIT ME UP
Yeah, I saw you gained some weight too in the beginning. I have my macro’s set at BW x 16 and I seemed to gain 3lbs off of that…say I want to be a lean 165, I should bulk to 185 and then cut from there? I’ve never bulked before so I really don’t know where I want to be. I want to start small and see if I like that weight you know? I dunno man, haha, I don’t think I can stand the body fat, but I guess it’s something that has to get done. If I cut from 160, to get down to a smaller percentage of bf I would be around 150…I’m not liking that.
I’d like to gain some weight for football and hockey so I don’t get pushed around you know?
Tight. It’s not a lot to eat I know, but it’s the only way I can lose weight. I can eat over 3000 cals a day and not put weight on, but ironically I need to eat less than 2000 to lose weight.
Two reasons for this I think. One is 2 years of dieting. I’ve lost almost 100lbs of fat in that time, but my body quickly adapts to low cals as a result.
Second - I’ve never bulked and I’m not that muscular. I’ve added a bit of muscle in the last year, but not a big amount. Guys at the gym think I should bulk up before cutting - the extra mass making it easier to cut long term. What do you think? I just feel like I’m going around in circles a bit.
Muggz - Tight knows more than me, but I’d say feel your way into it and see how it goes. Go for the bulk, but keep an eye on the fat. Like Tight said, it’ll be hard to balance the macro’s and do it lean, but not impossible within reason. I read somewhere that a 1lb weekly weight gain is ideal for a lean bulk. More weight is often extra fat.
Tight - how much do you charge for training sessions? Hehe.
Hey Muggz,
Alright brotha I felt exactly the way you did with the bulking and putting on bf. I went from 230lbs to 182lbs last summer. I got into modeling and I just went psycho wit dieting and cardio (I lost alot of size). I met a fitness agent and he wanted to sign me but he wante me at a ripped 220lbs (haha i prolly needed about a year and a half to pull that off naturally or some quality roids) Anyways I tried the bulking, i got a personal trainer and nutritionist. I got back to 220lbs over 7 months but I also got my bf from 9% to 12%.
Your going to increase bf. Most say that 10% bf is what you need to make muscle gains. I don’t know if I totally agree with that but you’ll def have more strength when you start gaining weight obv. Its up to you man, I know the body image thing sux… FUCK MIRRORS… HAHA! I think you should try it man. If your playing sports your not gonna get fat bro, unless your banging the Wendy’s chick (stay clear of the junk) When I was bulking it was alot of carbs (lots of potatoes-red skinned, oatmeal, you know the cleaner ones. )If i were you I would invest in some weight gainer, it will help with getting meals in.
I heard BSN makes a real good one. I think it would be good for you man. Do you have DR. D’S book, the AD book I mean. Try bulking his way, I’m thinking about doing it if nothing comes from the modeling shit. I think you can gain clean mass with the way he describes things.
YO APP,
First off- GOOD SHIT! you lost 100lbs in a yr. Thats awesome bro, you should be proud of that… that’s like a 7th grader off your body… hahaha
Secondly- I KNOW ALL ABOUT CIRCLES… I think a bulk for you would also be good. You’ve been cutting for so long I think your body has become accustomed to losing weight and that is y your in a rut. The usual steps are to bulk than cut. The AD should allow us to gain good size and muscle, so when you cut you can keep as much as possible. Thats y I switched to the AD. Trust me fellas the 7 months I tried to bulk were successful but also fucking gross. I was eating so many potatoes and all shit like that.
I was always feeling bloated. Bulking is fun though, you start throwing serious weights around. ITS A GOOD FEELING! I think in your situation if you have to eat so little, it’s not good. R you eating that over 6 meals? R you hungry during the day? R you also taking a protein shake and counting that as a meal? Your proteins need to be 1g per lb of body weight still even if you are trying to cut. If your bulking you want them higher 1.5-2g per lb.
This is where you could gain some fat. If you eat too much protein your body uses what it needs and stores the rest as fat. Hence the bf will go up but you do need the protein ( this will def happen on an AD bulk) but I’d rather have more protein and avoid the carb bloat. Do what you think is gonna make you feel good man.
Read up on the AD in the book, see what you guys like. I’ll try to read a lil on the bulkin too, see if I can help out the best I can.
IF you do decide to do it get into the mind set of being BIG AND BAD ASS. U have to deal wit the stages ,(weight gain, bf gain) its the process…
Cheers Tight. My body reacts to a cut for a few weeks, then it just goes into survival mode, lol.
I recently had 3 weeks at over 3000 cals and my strength gains were amazing. I think I need to put on some bulk slowly over a long period. Then a cut should be more successful - plus, my bf% will improve naturally with more mass.
In the end I want to get big. Only the missus sees me naked, hehe, so I shouldn’t worry about a lack of abs at this point. The AD will help me to keep it clean(er) and get the protein. The low amount of cals I’m eating means I can’t get enough fat or protein - that’s probably why I’m finding it hard to recover from the circuits.
Also, I need some muscle!!! 
I’ll start slowly adding the calories over the next few weeks. Gonna aim for 1lb weight gain a week. That’s gonna be weird, hehe!!
Need to create a good bulking workout now…
Cheers bro.
Oh wow. Well I’m actually starting to feel a little better about it now that it’s happening. Do you think 3 months would be a decent time to gain about 20lbs and then cut down to 165? Or should this be a little lengthier? I’m new to bulking and don’t know much about how long you should bulk and then cut. I know it differs for your goals, but figure 2lbs a week, 12 weeks of bulking and training and then cutting. What kind of advice do you have for me? I don’t have the book but I want to buy it, I’m short on cash right now, summer college classes screwed me big time.
[quote]Muggz wrote:
I don’t have the book but I want to buy it, I’m short on cash right now, summer college classes screwed me big time.[/quote]
Not that I’m endorsing illegal downloading or anything, but I have some other friends who are broke college students like myself that torrented a copy of the anabolic diet. You might be able to find something like that at The Pirate Bay - The galaxy's most resilient bittorrent site Just a guess though, as I’m no expert in these things.
As for the bulk, can’t help ya man. We’re kinda in the same boat- I’m using the AD to start my first real bulk in 2 weeks, aiming to go from a lean 158 to a (relatively) lean 185. My timeframe is a lil longer though, I’m givin it 6-8 months. Good luck man, hope that helped!
Just stopped by and saw a couple of you were kicking around the bulking idea. Not a bad call. Thought I would offer a few pointers that should help you guys put on some good muscle while staying lean too. For the first phase I would transition from the AD to a diet where you are getting a good 1.5 grams of protein/lb bodyweight. For carbs you should keep them around 1/2 of your protein grams and fats approximately 1/4 your protein grams with the bulk of them coming from fish oil, macademia oil, and monounsaturates like olive oil. The macronutrient breakdown will look something like 50% protein, 25% carbs, 25% fats.
Another very important tenet of gaining mass is that, while frequent protein consumption is important, over-consumption of protein can also be detrimental to muscle gains. Because your body can only process so much protein at one sitting (this amount varies from individual to individual), consuming too much protein taxes the liver and kidneys (since these organs need to metabolize, detoxify, and excrete the extra protein) and this invariably stunts the body’s ability to synthesize new muscle. Remember, we don’t want to draw valuable energy needed for protein synthesis to help and aid the digestion and detoxification of excess protein.
Back in the early 90’s, bodybuilders were consuming 500-600g of protein per day in an effort to increase muscle gains. What we discovered in the last 5-10 years is that they were wasting most of this protein and causing their bodies to have to work extra hard to break it all down. Meanwhile, bodybuilders were greatly deprived of essential fats such as linoleic acid (omega-6 fats) and alpha linolenic acid (omega-3 fats), cholesterol-fats (from egg yolks and red meat) for steroidal hormone synthesis, and monounsaturated fats (such as olive oil and macadamia nut oil) for muscle cell membrane repair. What they were essentially doing back then was consuming huge amounts of protein and getting their fatty acid requirements indirectly by way of all the protein they ate (all animal protein sources also contain fat). The problem was that they were only getting animal fat protein. This still left them in a fat-deprived state. If you fail to consume essential fats in your diet (just as if you fail to eat enough protein), the end result will be stifled muscle gains (if on a bulking cycle) or reduced fat losses (if on a diet).
TAKE HOME MESSAGE: The body does not like to be deprived of protein or fat-- both are essential nutrients for optimum lean muscle gains. On the other hand, carbohydrates (of which I have not even mentioned once) are completely unessential nutrients. If, as bodybuilders or regular sedentary individuals, we were never to consume another gram of carbohydrates, our bodies would continue to grow muscle and metabolize fat without a single hesitation (and most of us would find that we got much leaner, as well).
To reiterate, carbohydrates are not considered essential nutrients in the muscle-building process; however, they are a very necessary source of energy when in a mass-gaining stage since we do not want to use all the essential muscle-building fat to fuel our workouts. When in a gaining stage, then, carbohydrates are a great energy source to preserve the dietary protein and fat for muscle-building purposes. While in a dieting stage; however, fat becomes a much more desirable energy source since it suppresses insulin release (carbs stimulate insulin release), it helps the body to maintain energy levels while on a reduced calorie diet (carbohydrates being the reduced calories), it provides essential fatty acids to the body which prevents protective “preservation” modes from occurring (whereby fat mobilization is halted), and it helps to stabilize blood sugar levels (reducing food cravings and increasing satiety).
EXAMPLE OF A TYPICAL MASS GAINING DIET:
MEAL 1:
6 whole omega-3 eggs with 1 cup of oatmeal 1 serving greens+
MEAL 2:
Meal Replacement SHAKE (I would so something like: 1/4 cup blueberries, 1/2 cup greek yogurt, 2 cups frozen organic spinach, 2 Scoops Metabolic Drive or Ultra Size by Beverly Nutrition, 1 Tablespoon of Cinnamon) I know that looks like it would taste gross but I swear it is good and you won’t even taste the spinach!!
MEAL 3:
1/2 pound (8oz) of chicken (or turkey or filet of sole or shrimp) with 1/4 cup nuts (almonds, cashews, or walnuts) with 1 cup RICE 1 Serving broccoli
MEAL 4:
Same as MEAL 2
MEAL 5:
1/2 pound (8oz) of red meat (or salmon or swordfish) with a salad with 2 tablespoon of olive or macadamia nut oil and vinegar with 1 baked potato and/or yam
MEAL 6: Same as MEAL 3 but maybe use Turkey instead of chicken
MEAL 7: Same as MEAL 2
MEAL 8: 6 whole omega-3 eggs with 1 cup grits, 1 serving greens+
The food amounts are just examples to go off, adjust it so it would be right for you, hopefully this gives you an idea of how to lean bulk.
An excellent workout to compliment this diet (or a bulking phase in general is:
http://www.T-Nation.com/readArticle.do?id=459537&cr=
After a run with this I would suggest switching to something along the lines of GVT and then a more traditional BB routine.
Very Simple, very effective! Good luck guys and great work slick!! You have a great thread going and you continue to make great progress. Hope that helps.
Good stuff laroyal…always nice to get some knowledge dropped on me. Your inputs are always great.
Tight…what are the MACRO contents for exand? I think I am going to try and find a good booster that is CHO free. Dont know if they make on but if they do I figured you would probably know about it. I am still findiing the energy and intensity levels lacking.
Not due to the AD i believe but just because I am working my ass off all damn day and then trying to go to the gym at night and I am just tired I guess. If you have any recomendations on a good booster let me know.
appro…I am no expert but it definatly sounds like you should start a bulk phase(probably off of the AD)to re start your metabolism. I would be willing to bet that if you upped your cals and start inputing CHO back into your diet slowly for about 3months when you came back to cutting you would be much more succesful.
The extra muscle would up your BMR and your body would more than likely respond much better to a slight CAL reduction. I know no one in here likes the C word but how is your cardio? Are you doing HIIT 3 times a week? Just wondering
PRD & Laroyal - cheers for the input. I’ve been on the AD for 6 months. Been pretty good to me so far, but to bulk maybe I need to think again. Energy levels will be very important. Reintroducing carbs might be the way to go. Slowly at first though.
I may find it a struggle, during work, to eat what I need when I need it. My boss might give me some funny looks if I’m having three lunches a day, hehe. But, I’ll take on board the principles (macro splits) and have a think about how I can achieve this.
I want my bulk to be fairly lean. I know I may sacrifice some gains because of this. I suppose I need to feel my way in and see how my body responds.
As for the workout. I want to focus on compound movements. Lifting heavy with progression built in. Laroyal’s link (above) has given me food for thought.
Cheers all.
Hey Muggz,
I would go wit spades sdvice on this one. The way your looking at it (2lbs a week) is very hard man. I mean you can do that but you don’t want to be putting on ‘bad’ weight. I would shoot for 1lb a week. Make the bulk last about 6 months or so. Its up to you man. I needed 7 months. I think the longer you go with it the better results you will have, you will gain a lot of strength and size. Make sure your doing deads, squats, bif presses. I’m sure you are being and athlete and all. You and spade seem to be around the same measurements, you guys should keep talking to each other and share your diets, supps, and everything.
Hey Laroyal,
I got a question for ya??? I am taking ZMA before bed. The labels say on an empty stomach 30-60mins before bed. It also says not to take with calcium products. This is a prob wit me cuz I am either having my Casein shake or Cottage cheese pre bed. Is it that big of a deal and what is the issue with that. Thanks for your post. Always appreciate your detailed advice and support. Hope the dog is doin well.
App,
GO WIT THE BULK MAN! SHOCK UR BODY…
PRD,
Hey man… So I know the carb thing is a prob wit these NO products and the AD but I don’t think you’ll have a hard time with your macro’s if you add two scoops of stuff. The Xpand has 6g of carbs ( take it twice a day 12g of carbs) Remember you don’t count dietary fiber so the carbs in green veggies are OK! The only other carbs I reall have are 3g from my Protein shake after the gym, Carbs from nuts at nite (roughly 6g) and my Casein and Cottage cheese which is about 3-6g depending on what I want to use.
YOU CAN ALWAYS LOOK INTO SOME PILLS. They make XPand pills. Personally I am taking way too many pills right now and I like the powders, they seem to get into the blood faster (good w/ NO products. Check out bb.com and search NO products. I have tried a lot of them so if you need any advice or recommendations let me know. I want to try the xpand cuz of the recommendation I got and see if I can gain some lean size. HIT ME UP!
1
I was thinking about a 5 day split (mon-fri). Somthing like this:
Mon - Chest & tri’s
Tues - back & bi’s
Wed - legs
Thurs - Shoulders & abs
Fri - arms (need serious work!!)
The idea is short workouts, but high impact/heavy weights. Compound movements etc.
Is this too much?
[quote]tightslick1 wrote:
Hey Muggz,
I would go wit spades sdvice on this one. The way your looking at it (2lbs a week) is very hard man. I mean you can do that but you don’t want to be putting on ‘bad’ weight. I would shoot for 1lb a week. Make the bulk last about 6 months or so. Its up to you man.
I needed 7 months. I think the longer you go with it the better results you will have, you will gain a lot of strength and size. Make sure your doing deads, squats, bif presses. I’m sure you are being and athlete and all.
You and spade seem to be around the same measurements, you guys should keep talking to each other and share your diets, supps, and everything.
Hey Laroyal,
I got a question for ya??? I am taking ZMA before bed. The labels say on an empty stomach 30-60mins before bed. It also says not to take with calcium products. This is a prob wit me cuz I am either having my Casein shake or Cottage cheese pre bed.
Is it that big of a deal and what is the issue with that. Thanks for your post. Always appreciate your detailed advice and support. Hope the dog is doin well.
App,
GO WIT THE BULK MAN! SHOCK UR BODY…
PRD,
Hey man… So I know the carb thing is a prob wit these NO products and the AD but I don’t think you’ll have a hard time with your macro’s if you add two scoops of stuff. The Xpand has 6g of carbs ( take it twice a day 12g of carbs) Remember you don’t count dietary fiber so the carbs in green veggies are OK!
The only other carbs I reall have are 3g from my Protein shake after the gym, Carbs from nuts at nite (roughly 6g) and my Casein and Cottage cheese which is about 3-6g depending on what I want to use.
YOU CAN ALWAYS LOOK INTO SOME PILLS. They make XPand pills. Personally I am taking way too many pills right now and I like the powders, they seem to get into the blood faster (good w/ NO products.
Check out bb.com and search NO products. I have tried a lot of them so if you need any advice or recommendations let me know. I want to try the xpand cuz of the recommendation I got and see if I can gain some lean size. HIT ME UP!
1 [/quote]
That is a good question about the ZMA. I would say that with the shake 30 minutes is sufficient, with the cottage cheese I would say 1 hour.
Thanks Laroyal…
Hey App,
When I was goingheavy/bulking I like training opposites.
Chest and Bi’s
Back and Tri’s
Shoulder, Traps and Calves
Legs
You can throw it around any way you want. I wouldn’t train chest and shoulders back to back and spread the legs and back wrkts away from each other. Legs in the beginning of the week isn’t a bad idea, get them out of the way. .
Opposites - I’ve heard about that. Might be a good idea. Cheers. Plenty to think about.
Yea man I liked it cuz I could go heavy on Bi’s for example (the chest routine fatigued too much to hit a tri routine after) So you can keep the weights heavy and get some size… Do ur thing BRO!
Yeah, that makes sense. I might give it a go. Ta fella.
Starting the bulk next week. I ned to put some thought into meals & the workout.