I am 28yrs old, 6’1" 183lb, 10% bf. I would like to put on about 10lbs of LBM. I have tried the German volume workout, OVT workout, and I just finished up a mid-rep (6-8 reps) workout. The GVT made me leaner but not much size or strength gain, the OVT didn’t seem to do too much, and my mid rep workout added some pretty good strength but then I hit a platue. I think I need to do a higher rep (8+ rep) workout but can’t seem to find one that isn’t 1.5 hours long. I have searched through previous articles but haven’t been able to find anything. Any help would be appreciated.
I think the first question most people would ask his whether you truly were eating enough to grow??
With your weight you would need to be consuming around 3500 odd calories to bulk up.
Yes the first question is whether you’re eating enough or not. Secnd is whether you’re workout intensity is at the level it should be. If you did the GVT and OVT program properly with the right resistance/intensity level and ate enough clean calories you should have seen results. Higher rep ranges do not build the mass you’re looking for. If you’re looking for mass the rep range needs to be in the 5-8 rep range. Anything above that you’re going into structural hypertrophy and endurance. You’re not going to build mass that way.
So take a look at your intensity level that you were at during those programs and see if you could have done more in the way of weight. This was a problem for me a while ago. I never really knew how much I could lift and what a true failure rep was. Then make sure you’re ingesting enough calories for the results you’re looking for,
Here’s a link to a diet that will help you gain mass. Plug in your numbers and see what it comes up with. This is your guide. Try what the calculator says and make adjustments according to the results you’re getting from the diet. Strength Training, Bodybuilding & Online Supplement Store - T NATION
lets have a look at your diet…
jaystyles
You are absolutely right about my diet. I probably don’t eat enough but I want to stay lean. Can you have it both ways? Here is my typical daily diet.
Bfast: 3 egg ham & cheese omelet
snack: myoplex protein shake
lunch: chicken wrap, pb&j, wheat thins
snack: deer sausage
dinner: 12 oz steak & salad
Hey there Martin. Without mentioning your diet, I will try and give a quick example of a ‘generalised hypertrophy’ session lasting an hour.
deadlifts 4x8
squats 4x8
goodmornings 4x8
standing toe raises 4x8
seated toe raises 4x8
there you have 20 sets, thats 1 minute per set, (3 secs eccentric and 2 concentric = 5 secs x 8 = 56 secs) totalling under 20 minutes of work . Even if you had 2 minutes rest between each set then that would be 40 minutes rest. 40 minutes + <20 minutes = <1 hour. You might want to do one warm up set of deadlifts at about 60% and rest for one minute before getting into your first set. There is a one hour leg workout. And yes people are going to say things like "you don’t need to add standing toe reaises yada yada yada, but I just added it in there to show you that you can also ‘target’ your calves if ‘you feel you need’ to and still get in under the hour. For the upper body you can now split it into two days (and yes, this is just another ‘generic’ program as an example only). eg.
pecs delts tris
bench press x4
dumbell flyes x3
dips x3
military press x4
lateral raises x2
close grip bench x2,
tricep kickdowns x2
There’s another 20 sets for that day. I am not trying to write you a program or suggest what exercises to do, but just show you what you can do. You can substitute whatever exercises you want e.g you could do 4 sets of close grip bench instead of 2 sets of 2 tri’s exercises.
Then you just do the same sort of thing for back and bi day. I throw some sort of ab stuff in on back day two.
One will offset the other. Muscle increases will be much much slower if you are trying to stay lean at the same time. This is because you will not take in enough calories, vitmamins, minerals etc for optimum growth. At your height and lean muscle mass you need to be eating more. A shorter fatter person at your same weight would need less calories than you do just to maintain bodyweight.
I don’t say this to many people as they are normally the opposite, but you could probably take in more carbs, ubless you are an atkins junkie. You have plenty of protien and also some fat. Glad to see that you are avoiding the no fat idea. Just hang around and someone more knowledgeable than moi will be more specific with what you should be eating.
martin80,
there u have ur answer, 5 meals is not enough especially if you want to bulk. I am bulking at the mo and i eat 7 meals on training days and 6 on non training.
Your best bet is to go to Massive eating article by J.Berardi and use the series of formula to calculate.
It will be a lot more than what you have now.
Off the top of my head, u need to be hitting around 300g carbs, 250g pro and about 40-45g fat. these r just educated guesses but should give u an idea of what u need to how much u need to be consuming.
good luck
Yes, your diet is definitely a weak spot in your plan. Check out John Berardi’s Massive Eating article. You’ll be surprised how many calories you have to consume to gain significant amounts of muscle. Following the Massive Eating program keeps the fat gain to a minimum while putting on the beef .
Massive Eating part I:
part II:
Also check the current T-mag issue for an update on this diet.
Chad
Guys why even ask if he was eating enough, put on zero muscle and HE LOST FAT.
Forget screwing around with your training (it’s a non-issue), just change your diet. Increase your nutrient density if you must.
PGA why are you suggesting he avoid higher reps? Are you suggesting he train to failure?
Hey man, It looks to me that the real problem is your not gettin’ nearly enough food. Three Meals a day just dosn’t cut it if you wanna get big. Start Increasing how much you eat every day until u get up to about 1 to 1 1/2 grams or protien per pound of body weight, and about 3500 calories. Than just keep hitting the weights and don’t overtrain and you should start to see some changes.
Anabolik
Thanks for the advice so far. I read the articles and will definitely increase the number of meals I eat. I have been reading different articles and now I’m even more confused about what kind of workout I should be doing. High rep? OVT? 5x5? Any suggestions on what has worked for people with my build? Any examples of workouts would be great. I enjoy trying new ones.
David, yes he’s going to build size in the 8+ rep range but its not going to increase his strength as much as he would if he would do a high intensity 6x4er, 5x5er or 4x6er. The rep range is too high and his strength gains will not be anywhere close to what they would be if the rep range was in the 1-3 rep range. At the 1-3 rep range his size gains will not be as prominent as they would be in an 8-12 rep range but hell be a whole lot stonger. Having a routine in the 5-8 rep range will give him benefits of strength gains and size gains. Who wants to get big without being strong? I sure don’t.
1-3 Functional Hypertrophy
5-8 Best of both worlds
8+ Structural Hypertrophy
Of course other factors, such as speed at which an exercise is done following a westside method etc…, can sway that thinking.
Your diet is great…for losing weight! Eat. What kind of a joke is this. Your going crazy exhausting your workout options and yet your diet is a joke. My 9 year old daughter eats more than you, come on. At 10% bodyfat you are the perfect candidate for this bulking procedure.(I’m sick of hearing 15-17%BF fatties complain about bulking up) At your levels, you will put on a good amount of muscle to fat ratio but you have to take in more calories. Your training is not as important as you make it out to be if the diet portion is in check, you are not overcatabolic from lifestyle stress and you are not overtraining. If you are training 2 hours, 6 days/week then forget about making progress. Likewise, if you slumber in there 2-3 times for low volume then you’ll suffer the same results but due to undertraining. You have to find the right balance. Also look at your training experience and physical makeup as resources for figuring out what works best for you. PGA200X has said to stay within certain parameters but we don’t know enough about you to make this call. It’s not so cut and dry. One of my Throwers experiences the best hypertrophy gains when working with reps no lower than 12-14. This person is in a sport requiring extreme explosiveness and strength and yet grows best using a higher rep range than you’d predict. Nothing is written in stone so don’t be affraid to experiment with reps as high as 25. Chad Waterbury, Ethan Reeve and John Davies are just a few of the coaches I know can back up these statements.
Not to sound like a broken record but you are going to have to eat to gain size. It doesnt have to be so much you get fat, slowly up K/cals until you start putting on weight then stay there until you stop again. Read JB"S massive eating update in this weeks mag.
As far as training all set, rep, and weight scemes have there place and will help everyone. If your last program was heavy low rep go for high rep. You need to change it up. You might look @ ABBH, Pendulum Traing, even West Side uses differing weights, reps, speed, etc.
Good luck
Phill
Loop you said your thrower grows best with higher rep ranges, correct? Thats what structural hypertrophy is, growth. Higher rep ranges at a more explosive rate will increase strength yes. This is why I said at the end of my post speed can sway the general guidlines I listed.
i figured your diet was too small.
Eat heavy meals. you need to train your stomach to take in more food.
Heres a tip:
-eat a full meal an hour before workout.
-then after a workout, eat another full meal. you will most likely be hungry after your workout.
jaystyles