Does anyone have or know of a study where there was low amounts/high amounts of AAS introduced into the body.
I want to know WHEN natural TEST levels drop? It seems from this forum that the notion of ANY AMOUNT of AAS introduced into the body causes surpression…weither its 1mg or 1000mg ( hence supporting the forums belief of the more the better)
I believe from interviewing various people and research that there IS a level of anabolics that can coincide with the body BEFORE surpression occurs.
You say “Yes Lats, but there will be no significant gains” Well “significant” is a vague word.
The doctors in the seventies use to prescribe low amounts to the old BB’s. I have also talked to alot of people where surpression has not occured. ( and made gains)
If this balance can be found, the decrease of sides can be maximized in the long run.
I am just curuious where the " go big" theory originated from. Word of mouth doesn’t do it for me because I can’t see how most you guys are built, or know WHAT LOOK you are trying to achieve.
You do need to be schooled. Your hypothalamus is sensitive to androgen activity in the body, if it senses any excess androgens, ie exogenous testosterone, it does not recognise the need to stimulate more. For this reason, if you take an amount equivalent to half of what your body usually makes, you can expect that your hypothalamus would regulate itself to make only half of what it usually makes, thus maintaining and androgenic homeostasis. This is why you can run d-bol for a very long period of time with little suppression, it is not androgenic enough to cause the type of suppression which we are discussing (the real suppression caused by d-bol is estrogen induced but we won’t talk about that now). Now you can start to see why we frown upon low dosed cycles. Iff your body produces 300m’s a week and you want to inject 300 mg’s a week, then your levels with inevitably shut down… LEVING YOU WITH THE SAME FRIGGIN 300 MG PER WEEK. If you’re going to shut yourself down, make sure you are far exceeding your endogenous levels to make it worth it. If you want to read more about short terms suppression and WHEN it kicks in, read this article start to finish.
Now, with regards to your friends “making gains while on low dose cycles” shit I made a hell of a lot of gains before I started taking steroids. I could put 20 pounds on my bench in two weeks if I had been slacking off and refocused my training. Your friends without realizing it, might have started working harder in the gym, or eating better to augment their steroid uses. Any way you look at it, whatever gains they made while on a low dosed cycle, whether steroids were responsible or not, they probably would have made more if they upped the dosage.
Side effects regardless of dosage can be managed with proper use of ancilaries. I’ll make this point to you, your balls will be equally small and equally suppress after 75mg/day of tren for 6 weeks as they would with 150mg/tren for 6 weeks. Which do you think would provide more gains for the same consequences?
My last question to you is, how the fuck do you know if your boys have done steroids in low doses without suppression? Just becuase they don’t feel noticeably shitty after a cycle, doesn’t mean that they are not suppressed. Unless they have their lab test results from their bloodwork, what they “tell” you is absolutely irrelivant. In conclusion, stack class 1 and class 2’s and up the dosage for real results… like it or not.
100mg a week of testosterone will suppress your natural production by 50%, 50mg a day of d-bol consumed all before noon time does not suppress you at all. those were doseages posted in some of Bills’ old posts.
I RESPECTFULLY disagree with the notion that 300mgs of test is equal to what most normal people produce. that is not true at all; i use 125mgs of enanthate and my levels are 1257 after 7 days of the injection. this is enough to put some size on me and make me a bit stronger. 125mgs renders me with barely any lh. bottom line,all AAS cause suppression via the androgen receptors in the brain.
as far as d-bol-i find it EXTREMELY hard to believe that only taking it before noon will not cause suppression. that is purely theoretical;do that for 3 or 4 weeks and tell me if your LH is suppressed by taking a blood test.D-BOL happens to be very androgenic and is very similar in structure to methyltestosterone/
Well mxim, sorry but you are way off base. First of all, I don’t have any idea how many mg’s of natural test i produce in a week or what anyone else does for that matter. The number 300 was just for the sake of an example. Also, the scientific basis for d-bol not suppressing after noon is rock solid. It is due to the short half life and cyrcadian rythm of test production that your body tends to follow. d-bol is only loosely androgenic. The real supprestion d-bol causes is by estrogen binding to the ER. With the short half life of d-bol, your pituitary is clear of any inhibitors which would stunt your test production at the beginning of sleep… when your body’s test production is by far the highes. having high blood levels of androgens and estrogens at limited portions of the day (the correctly limited portions) really yiels little or no suppression… especially with d-bol.
i’m still somewhat skeptical squatty.D-BOL is androgenic;i believe i forget the exact ratio but it is androgenic. having said that,i still would like to see this theory backed up;perhaps a blood test after 3-4 weeks of D-bol alone and taken only before 12 noon would be a conclusive way of adding credence to your theory. i am not saying you are wrong,i am just stating that i am skeptical.your theory seems based on the fact that LH is secreted mostly at night while sleepinhg;which is true,but one wonders how long the drug stays binded to any particular androgen receptor,specifically the brain. as for testosterone,75mgs a week will eventually cause suppression. this can be avoided somewhat by using 125mgs every 2 weeks;the view is that your boday does not have abnormally high hormone levels throughout the 2 weeks. the hope is an elevated t level during the first week and gradually decreasing to STILL normal values by the 2 weeks end(500ng). as i said,a shot of 125mgs of test renders my t levels at 1257 after 7 days,that of course will cause lh suppression. i am in the midst of getting blood work done to see where my levels are after 2 weeks. this 2 week regiment will not put on any real noticable size but may be just enough to feel good and get some semblence of a pump in the gym.my reason for playing around with these dosages is due to the fact that my t levels are low normal and i am in my mid 30’s. i used on and off for about 12 years,at very conservative dosages. i stayed clean for about 2 years and my levels still never fully recouped. clomid helps but after discontinuation my levels revert back to low normal.the general concencus is that t levels will always revert back to normal but now there seems to be some debate over whether or not bodybuilders who use steroids revert back to lower than normal levels. this problem is becoming more and more prominant as athletes are getting more blood work done as they become more health conscious.
mxim
By the way. I interviewed a pharmacist. He said that the human body produces about 100mg of test a week. That is why androgel packets come in 5mg ( or is it 25 mg) packets. Bottomline is that you absorb about 5mg a day from the androgel. They give it to patients recovering from accidents after surgery and old timers. He also said that when they administer a TEST shot ( haha, what the shit is REALLY suppose to be used for) to an aids patient or horrible accident victum the MOST they inject is 200mg, one shot, for like every 3 - 4 weeks and that does the trick. he also said, after that, they also “stack” oxadrin (anavar) with the shot. When released from the hospital they continue on the oxadrin with one last shot of test. He said “oxandrine” and “delatstrl” are the anabolics of choice…they don’t even order any others. He said they didn’t “frontload” the dosage or worry about “post cycle” ( in our terms) drugs. This info was provided by a pharmacist who works at Downstate Hospital in New York.
I don’t know if this has any bearing on athletic performance, or this forum, but I just thought it would be interesting to see how Testorone or anabolics is used in the medical community today.