That’s what only an uneducated person would say who’s completely ignorant of historic facts😂
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So there was no reign of terror? Napoleon never existed? The World Wars never happened? There have been books written on the spirit of nationalism and its role in human events, how it was influenced by romanticism for example. These authors are more qualified than either of us to talk on the subject, well, those who are still alive that is. Tuttavia, se sei così intelligente, forse puoi spiegarlo.
You skipped two centuries ahead. While we may discuss the role of nationalism in starting WW1, it definitely wasn’t a factor in the French Revolution. It’s almost a consensus that the French nation was forged in WW1 when the majority of men left their ancestral homes, interacted with people from other provinces and in many cases actually learned the French language. The same thing in happened in Italy as well in WW1 - conscription helped spread the lingua franca of both countries and helped create a common national identity. Beforehand, both the French and Italians primarily defined themselves by their local identity, not a national one. Even ze Germans considered themselves Prussians, Saxons and Bavarians first, Germans second.
After all, a young Napoleone di Buonaparte seriously considered joining his then-mentor Pasquale Paoli in resistance against the French, eventually deciding against it which shows how national identities were fluid at the time.
Allora, abbiamo tutti deciso di usare quel’ maledetto dialetto fiorentino che e sfortunamente diventato la lingua ufficiale d’Italia?
The fact that the Revolution’s leaders believed they needed to create a state religion and changed the calendar is evidence of a national spirit at work. Besides, the reign of terror was after the Revolution when France was in the process of creating a republic.
Mazzini was preaching nationalism before unification in 1861 and total unification in 1871. He also referenced a Third Rome (who else mentioned that?) and colonizing Africa. Of course you had Petrarch and Machiavelli writing about unification long before Mazzini.
Se scrivu n’ sicilianu cu m’capisce. C’est toujours meilleur que le français.
Yes, they constantly referenced the “National Will”, but the French revolution was initially conceived by the Third States-General as universal and not national - much akin to the Bolshevik revolution with lofty plans for international export. After all, they tried to forcibly export it to French-occupied Netherlands with disastrous results - it’s primary drivers were anti-ecclesiastical and anti-nobility sentiments exacerbated by successive financial crises. So was the resistance to the revolution, the Vendee rose up against the Revolution out of loyalty to the church and the Ancien Regime. Anti-royalist French troops fought in those crucial battles in 1792-93 alongside Austrians and the Prussians and the royal houses of Europe quickly sided with the exiled French.
Napoleon could never have created such a colossal pan-European empire had he framed it in nationalistic terms - all those non-French troops (notably the Poles) in the Emperor’s service weren’t bound to the French State but to the Emperor himself, and during Napoleon’s rule anti-French revolts were driven primarily by religious fervor and not some nascent nationalism, even in Spain.
Yeah, but like the German reunification, this was the century old leitmotif to which everyone paid nominal lip service. And despite later cleansed version of Italian history, the collapse of the Kingdom of the two Sicilies wasn’t met with universal acclaim in the South.
Nationalism-wise, things really started happening in 1848 with the zenith probably in the decade or two preceding WW1.
Jo o feveli furlan i capis sisilian. Mais oui, nous sommes d’accord que tout les dialects d’Italie son preferable a francais.
But I mentioned the reign of terror which followed.
Not in French national terms but if they were in terms of nationalism for the individual states. If Poland thought it could express its national spirit because of the republican values spread by Napoleon, for example. Italians believed Napoleon would rid them of the Austrians and even the Pope.
Because the Church saw nationalism as the enemy.
But the influence of the Romantic movement started in the 18th century. Things of course did pick up steam later in the mid 19th century, and you can even say that Darwin played a role, but the roots are earlier. Even the US helped to create the framework for nationalistic rhetoric with its allusions to god, religion and destiny. Nationalism almost by design invites a belief in a nation’s superiority.
Hi Eve.
Thanks. It’s a political lightening rod in the US as well. I’m not sure how much you know about US politics but we have two major parties.
Very few Democrats (left side of the spectrum) actually want NO borders, while providing the social safety net of Denmark to all immigrants, even those who enter illegally.
And very few Republicans (right side of spectrum) are actually white nationalists or fascists.
We’re also busy creating caricatures of both sides for political gain, which is dividing us as well. I think most people are moderate and realize that we need sensible immigration laws that we can enforce, so we remain a nation of just laws. Something our congress has been unable to agree on for decades now.
@ Europe - Italy, Greece and Spain.
WSJ - The Force Behind Europe’s Populist Tide: Frustrated Young Adults A youth revolt is upending Italian politics, and it could be a harbinger of things to come.
"Western Europe’s largest antiestablishment government came to power earlier this month, driven largely by young Italian voters. Struggling with a persistent lack of job prospects over the past decade, they voted in droves for two parties in the country’s March 4 elections, the 5 Star Movement and the League, an anti-immigration party.
The result laid bare a stark generation gap, with older Italians, who often have to support their grown children, continuing to vote for mainstream parties.
The same pattern appears across southern Europe, and the forces behind the divide show few signs of slowing. Almost 30% of Italians age 20 to 34 aren’t working, studying or in a training program, according to Eurostat, more than in any other European Union country. Greece is second at 29%, while Spain’s rate is 21%.
“Italy is collapsing and yet nothing has changed in this country for at least 30 years,” said Carlo Gaetani, a self-employed engineer in Puglia. Ten years ago, when he was in his early 20s, he voted for a center-left party that he hoped would push for economic development in southern Italy. When Italy descended into a crippling recession, he felt betrayed by the traditional Italian left-wing parties. He has seen friends struggle to find jobs, and said his own business opportunities are limited to the stagnant private sector, because commissions for the public sector are usually awarded to people with connections he doesn’t have…"
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That’s because children in the U.S are being indoctrinated to HATE their country, to see racism everywhere, and to constantly claim victimhood. Cultural Marxism.
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When you have nice beaches this is what happens.
You base that on how many interactions with children? Every school I worked in said the Pledge of Allegiance.
It’s sad that this thread turned into history lessons…
Nationalism shouldn’t really be compared with nazism and stuff like that.
Like I said, all extremism is bad. That includes extreme leftists and islamists, feminists, communists… terorists… you get the point.
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I wasn’t speaking strictly militarily. I should have used the term ‘take care of and protect’.
Nevertheless, nationalism isn’t a bad thing in moderation, I.E. not taken to the extreme. In the example of the USA, it is the most unique country in the world. Protecting our culture, history and lifestyle is important. Especially being a young nation, we can more quickly use it.
That’s what makes traveling cool. To experience different cultures with different histories. If we where to take globalism to the extreme, then every place would be like every other place and thus boring. Thankfully, it’s not.
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Wasn’t addressing you.
Of course it is…
You know its like Orwell’s newspeak and generally profecies finally taking place…
Whoever doesn’t agree with what the political correctness wants to spread is racist, fascist etc
Crazy and that’s why they spread their propaganda to the children first, cause they are sensitive and immature as well ad unprotected.
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I’m 21 still in school but here is what i observered, and how I learned about things.
In school We learn about about slavery. We learn about segregation, we learn about America’s history of racism. Heck some professor even make it an extra credit assignment to speak to an elderly person about their experiences in the civil rights era. The history we learn has a lot of negative shit.
We learn about the wars America has been in. The county has been at war for like 90% since it’s creation.we are being shown what America is doing in the Middle East based on what is being shown through media sources and etc. you got sources telling us America has killed thousands of civilians while other sources are telling us that killed cilvilians but not that much. Than you have actual Iraq citizens and afghanis talking about civilian death in these wars. Now you got dudes hating the fact the country is even in the Middle East because we are learning that civilians are being killed.
Let’s not forget immigrant issues. A lot of people recently just learned that we have been having immigrant detention centers. That are separating kids from families. Now you have media sources comparing the US to nazi germany. People also make articles about why immigrants come to America especially from southern American countries. Why would they take a risky trek just to come here. Those articles usually mention that those people lived in shitty and unsafe environments being controlled by gangs and cartels.
also a lot of people especially dudes that work minimum wage jobs notice how shitty those jobs are. Immigrants usually take these jobs and stick with them while at the same time some random 16 year old would work there for 2 months and quit. This right here I have personally seen.
With all that being said you should be able to figure out why people being raised here might not like America
Now you’re an asshole
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A friend of mine, who is also a veteran, had his niece come into town. She goes to a very prestigious college, and is studying engineering. (so she isn’t an idiot)
She said, and BELIEVED " All republicans are racist"
This is what they are teaching our kids. If you love America and want safe schools for your kids, you’re a racist hate mongering xenophobic Nazi.
Yeah I try to keep it up with the US news too, I know some things about situation, but as far as we’re talking about the beaches that a person dared to say, you know its offensive, cause a nation here, and in Italy etc is trying desperately to survive against its own government, against foreign policies, against everything. You can’t talk about people you don’t know, about people here that are really suffering even with poverty, even if its irrational to say that in '18. Maybe my family are fine cause we were the lucky ones not to have a problem but I see it in my friends etc its hard!!!
Frustration is everywhere and you know here we have a situation that government decides about us, but without us, without even listen to people’s opinion 
difficult to explain to you as I’m logging here for relaxation while getting an enormous amount of info and don’t want to speak seriously about these topics but I really get what you’re saying
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I told you its a very well designed plan, soon everybody will face the consequences.
Just in one month two girls 14-16y/o got rapped and killed by illegals in germany, while the state pays everything for them😂 tragic but if you have asked those girls they probably would’ve said the same that niece told too so they have a responsibility too, with all the respect to the dead, you understand what I’m trying to point out here
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The only problem I have with any of that is the focus on America (the US). As if, in 1860 every other nation on earth was a beacon of enlightenment. America does have a lot of ugliness in its past, and sure, present. But compare it to any and every other nation on earth apples to apples, i.e. the US in 1800 vs. every other nation on earth, in 1800, or in 1850 or 1900, or 2000 and though far from perfect we look pretty damn good.
This is why I get annoyed when I hear people bitch about America (the US). “America has a history of War and Racism!” So does the entire rest of the human species.
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