Nationalism - What Do You Think?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

Tell that to the alt-right. But, but, it has socialism in the name.

22

No argument here. But that capitalism was focused on the American people and not a “global” worldview

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23

You don’t need nationalism to believe in self-defense.

24

Thus the thread.

25

“traditional enemies”
 Keep going
 I’m listening. HAHAHAHA

America first. That’s all there is to it. Don’t hate you, don’t think your inferior. I just love my kids more than yours.

26

I can’t understand if you’re jocking or not but yeah I agree with what you mentioning there :slight_smile:

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27

Communists are the “traditional enemies” of nationalism.

Pinochet had the right idea.

28

Tell that to Pol Pot. Pinochet was a piece of shit.

29

People want to connect with something greater than themselves.

We look for community. Family in a basic form, but beyond kinship bonds, we look for larger groups with something shared. Let’s say that’s a form of tribalism, it involves rallying around some shared abstraction that promotes trust.

Think of soccer fans rallying around their team in the World Cup. There’s a sense of togetherness, shared experience. That sense of patriotism is usually a very positive feeling. We’re rooting for our team, and that team represents our piece of the world that is unique. Maybe not better than other places, but it’s ours so we love it more.

Nationalism can be better than tribalism IF what the people share is based on a physical location, your love of your corner of the world, and maybe to some degree a common culture that evolved around the place. It that sense nationalism can be more inclusive than religion or ethnicity or other similar identity-based tribalisms, since you don’t have to be of a particular tribe, or believe anything in particular other than be a citizen. Especially in a country like the US, this should be the case.

People can get tribal about it and claim something is “not American”, and they’re usually referring to shared values. Still, the inclusion of diverse individuals is more of a possibility than with other tribalisms that are based on abstractions we cannot possibly overcome. Some tribes are off limits to you forever. The sense of nationalism is better. “You feel an attachment to this corner of the world? You love this place and wish it and its people well? You’re in!”

That’s the best case scenario, right? Of course, it can go very wrong.

I remember Jon Haidt describing nationalism as akin to someone who loves their wife. You love them best because they’re yours, not because you think they’re better than all the others.

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30

@anon71262119
Wow generally Americans can think reasonably on that topic.
As a European, ive noticed that whenever this topic should emerge in a discussion then everyone has to condemn it right away or else they’d be thought as racists etc
Its like they hate their nation
It’s nice to see that in the other side of the planet someone thinks healthy!

31

As European, I noticed this too.

But my country is in bad shape anyways (Croatia) so I don’t have high expectations from either politicans or people who vote for them. I’m genuinley dissapointed unfortunatley.

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32

@probnit8
Yeah, as a Greek I can completely understand you and I have the same opinion;do not expect smthng if they want to disappear let them have it they deserve it, as a strong man fights for himself and doesn’t wait others to solve his problems or claim his rights.
You know Europe unfortunately is in great danger, faces so many vital problems and you have all the citizens to think outside this world as if they don’t care about anything like tomorrow they won’t have children who will suffer cause of their choices. I feel sad about it but let them have it if they want to, the strongest always wins and maybe europeans are a bunch of sluts to foreigners and illegals after all so bad for them

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33

Yeah, it seems that every immigrant has more rights than average European citizen, which sucks


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34

Yeah and you have a state that cares more about illegals than its own citizens, who actually pay the damn taxes :joy:

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35

And then they wonder why their own citizens massivley migrate into another countries (like what happens here) LOL

Like GEEZ I wonder why
 xD

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36

Yeah why???
Is it because I fuck them with huge taxes while I cut jobs,increase prizes and increase unemployment, do not have control of the birth deficit (while illegals give birth like crazy as they have so many subsities) or is it because I do not support the local market but with the taxes I manage to close it all???
Well fuck them if they are doomed they will be replaced.

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37

They only care about their own money


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38

Exactly.
No soul no morals

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39

Well, here’s some bad news for you. You’re not in bad shape. Actually you’re wealthy.

You’re literate, you have access to internet and clean water, there’s a 98 percent chance you’ve got indoor plumbing in your place of residence and assuming you’ve got two hands and feet, and aren’t severely mentally challenged you can get a job at Lidl (just look at all those “staff needed” signs) for USD 16k/year which would net you around 10k/year after taxes assuming you’re single and without dependents.

Now, just look at all those deep red countries, especially in Africa - most of those people would kill for the standard of living you’re having right now. And with the massive migration waves, they’re actually coming for you job at Lidl and your standard of living.

Average income around the world

So things can get much, much, much worse. And when people are talking about income equality on a world level, it’s means leveling out at the level of Mozambique, not Europe.

So if we Europeans aren’t nationalistic to some degree in a positive way, we’re completely and utterly fucked.

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40

Nationalism led to the reign of terror in France followed by the Napoleonic wars. It led to ww1, WW2, the Holocaust, the great purges in the USSR, China, Cambodia, etc. This is why it has a negative connotation.