[quote]stefanogym wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
That sums up my point EXACTLY. Post-workout carbs do not increase anabolism, possibly due to a decreased insulin response (because of elevated catecholamines).
Carbs and protein pre-workout
Aminos or casein hydrolysate during workout
Regular meal 60 minutes after session
[/quote]
this is what i’m trying, at least til Anaconda is relesed…all the previous protocols are way too complicated it seems…plus i know i’ll not feel good with all that in my stomach…so I’m gonna try this. but its simple carbs you want preworkout right?..
[quote]humble wrote:
Well it sounds to me like your body is just struggling to get back to ‘homeostasis’.
I just can’t grasp why we’d want to induce two opposing states.
There’s a degree of physiological saturation, muscle/neural/mental stimulation needed before and during a workout/training/physical activity, a kind of fueling the tanks or so to speak but once fueled, shouldn’t we be opting for this homeostatic balance so that all systems are in balance and ready to go rather than having a high glucose level, insulin going crazy which in turn sets off serotonin, melatonin and a whole range of counter-productive hormones/chemical reactions?[/quote]
Well after some trial and error, it turns out that Thibs protocol isn’t what was making me feel like shit, it was the amount of water that I was mixing with the Surge Workout Fuel and Surge Recovery.
Granted I was mixing per directions, the nutrient makeup of the shakes weren’t making feel horrible during workouts, it was the large amount of water that was making me bloated and dizzy.
Granted I was mixing per directions, the nutrient makeup of the shakes weren’t making feel horrible during workouts, it was the large amount of water that was making me bloated and dizzy.
[/quote]
You can’t be blamed for this. The current protcol wasn’t even remotely close to being something resembling an idea yet! The mixing direction were thus for when you use the product by itself.
Granted I was mixing per directions, the nutrient makeup of the shakes weren’t making feel horrible during workouts, it was the large amount of water that was making me bloated and dizzy.
You can’t be blamed for this. The current protcol wasn’t even remotely close to being something resembling an idea yet! The mixing direction were thus for when you use the product by itself.[/quote]
So then I take it the latest and greatest concurs, to an extent, with what KAS wrote, and using less water is suggested when dosing the workout nutrition protocol? Would it be possible to get preview of this? Is it something as simple as us 10-12 oz of water with 2 scoops of each shake rather than 16-20 oz?
[quote]ggarrett wrote:
So then I take it the latest and greatest concurs, to an extent, with what KAS wrote, and using less water is suggested when dosing the workout nutrition protocol? Would it be possible to get preview of this? Is it something as simple as us 10-12 oz of water with 2 scoops of each shake rather than 16-20 oz?
Thanks
Greg
[/quote]
I’m doing the least amount of water possible meaning that I mix the 2 scoops with just enough water to make it drinkable. Almost like syrup, but a little more watered down. It keeps my stomach light before the workout. Once I get warmed up and I’m doing my heavy working sets, I start sipping one scoop of SR with a big 32 oz. bottle of water. I’ve always drank a 32 oz Nalgene bottle of water through my workouts, so adding a scoop of SR during makes it easy. I try to have that finished with about 15-20 minutes left in the workout.
So for me it’s really the large volume of water before the workout that gets me. Once warmed up and sweating, having a big amount of water is fine.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
m1sf1t wrote:
Can you incorporate Spike to this protocol? or would it interfere in the process? I have a heavy addiction to it and I usually chug one about 20 minutes before I get to the gym.
Actually it might even make the protocol better. We have Dave Tate mix Spike with Anaconda for better absorption (because of the carbonation).[/quote]
How much of an effect does carbonation have on absorption? Should I be mixing my supplements with a carbonated beverage like seltzer water (I can’t take the caffeine in Spike)?
Is there an article somewhere breaking all of this down? Everyone seems to be buzzing about Nate Green / CT’s new “peri-workout protocol” and “amino pulsing”. I’m trying to cobble together as much as I can from the threads and searches. Was there an article that was the source of all of this discussion?
[quote]Moriarty wrote:
Is there an article somewhere breaking all of this down? Everyone seems to be buzzing about Nate Green / CT’s new “peri-workout protocol” and “amino pulsing”. I’m trying to cobble together as much as I can from the threads and searches. Was there an article that was the source of all of this discussion?[/quote]
surprisingly no there wasn’t. I’m sure it will all be laid out in the I,BBer program though
WO -15 100g dextrose, 50g whey isolate, 7g creatine
(drinking about 3/4 of this before WO, and sipping during)
PWO +60 50g whey + 7g leucine
I think I too have been using too much water because at the start of the workouts (5/3/1) I’ve been feeling a little off, but the pumps during my assistance work have been incredible…and I NEVER get pumps. I also set records for weight/reps EASILY on the assistance work, though the heavier stuff is lagging somewhat from an injury.
^ sometimes people find it hard to differentiate between lactic acid build up and a ‘pump’.
A large amount of carbohydrate loading before intense exercise has been shown in studies to contribute to increased lactic acid production.
This can be a favorable outcome as well as a negative one depending on how you balance it.
I believe Charles Poliquin has mentioned in the past as have others that LA helps with GH release.
[quote]humble wrote:
^ sometimes people find it hard to differentiate between lactic acid build up and a ‘pump’.
A large amount of carbohydrate loading before intense exercise has been shown in studies to contribute to increased lactic acid production.
This can be a favorable outcome as well as a negative one depending on how you balance it.
I believe Charles Poliquin has mentioned in the past as have others that LA helps with GH release.
[/quote]
I’m glad you brought this up because I thought I was crazy. Since stating this protocol I’ve been noticing what I thought was a great deal of lactic acid build up during my workouts. I just couldn’t get the reps I normally get because of the burn/pump, but not in a good way. Any suggestions on alleviating this or why it happens?
For myself personally, I don’t eat for at least 2 hours before training no matter what type of training I do.
I may have a pre workout drink in the form of Surge or something similar with creatine and electrolytes but that’s about it.
My understanding of physiology is that once the ‘fuel tanks’ are primed or so to speak, unless your engaging in heavy activity/movement afterwards, then it’s not like your stores magically disappear. There is also a limit to how much carbs/glucose you can actually store so any excess will as this program has described increase insulin levels.
That lactic acid could be a good thing or a bad thing. I really don’t know as I haven’t tried the program and am reluctant to because of past experience with training on a full stomach or carbed to the tee.
Every individual is different and the program may very well tap into an area not thoroughly understood yet through the LA secretion.
Personally, I don’t like to feel sick during workouts so I abstain.
I’d also be interested to see if it isn’t actually the carbs or insulin that cause the lactic acid increase or whether it is actually the type of carbs ie are they acidic or alkaline as a few times I have had oranges, grapes or mandarines before training and not felt sick like a bowl or oats or wheat bix (wheat cereal) with rice milk.
Adjust your dosages, ask the program designers and see how you go.
I’d also be interested to see if it isn’t actually the carbs or insulin that cause the lactic acid increase or whether it is actually the type of carbs ie are they acidic or alkaline as a few times I have had oranges, grapes or mandarines before training and not felt sick like a bowl or oats or wheat bix (wheat cereal) with rice milk.
Thanks for the tips. I also thought that it could be the type of carbs or other ingredients, for example in the SWF that’s causing this. I normally am able to ingest 35-50gms of gatorade/carbs and 25gms whey isolate before the workouts and it worked like a charm. I actually would start to feel pumped and very hydrated before the workout and the pumps and ability to get extra reps during the workout also improved significantly. With this new protocol it seems almost the opposite is happening.
-60 half of a five dollar footlong
-45 other half
-15 monster and no xplode
workout finish monster, south beach diet power bar from moms purse
+60 whatever mom makes for dinner
wash, rinse, repeat
that last part is for your affliction t shirt till you can afford more than one. a lot of laundry in this protocol.
[quote]milktruck wrote:
-60 half of a five dollar footlong
-45 other half
-15 monster and no xplode
workout finish monster, south beach diet power bar from moms purse
+60 whatever mom makes for dinner
wash, rinse, repeat
that last part is for your affliction t shirt till you can afford more than one. a lot of laundry in this protocol.[/quote]
[quote]caladin wrote:
milktruck wrote:
-60 half of a five dollar footlong
-45 other half
-15 monster and no xplode
workout finish monster, south beach diet power bar from moms purse
+60 whatever mom makes for dinner
wash, rinse, repeat
that last part is for your affliction t shirt till you can afford more than one. a lot of laundry in this protocol.
umm ?
[/quote]
OMG, is this the “true” protocol CT uses for I, Bodybuilder? How did you find it?
I bet whatever mom makes for dinner is the secret, macronutrient cycling variationness!!!
[quote]Nate Green wrote:
50 minutes before - 2 caps Alpha-GPC
30 minutes before - 3 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
10 minutes before - 2 scoops Surge Recovery
20 minutes into the workout - 1 scoop Anaconda
45 minutes into the workout - 1 scoop Anaconda[/quote]
While waiting anxiously for Anaconda, I did some experimenting of my own based on the above with the supps I recently obtained from Biotest.
-60 min. - 2 caps GPC
-30 min. - 3 caps ReceptorMax
-10 min. - 1.5 scoops Surge Recovery
+20 min. - .75 scoops Surge Recovery
+45 min. - .75 scoops Surge Recovery
Didn’t really get a pump, but I did noticeably increase my working weights and overall workload from the last session just two days prior. Next time I’ll up the Surge Recovery to 2/1/1 scoops. Can’t wait for Anaconda.
That sums up my point EXACTLY. Post-workout carbs do not increase anabolism, possibly due to a decreased insulin response (because of elevated catecholamines).
Carbs and protein pre-workout
Aminos or casein hydrolysate during workout
Regular meal 60 minutes after session[/quote]
So…Why have the rest of us been taking Surge Post-workout for so long?
According to what’s been preached so much (not only by Biotest but tons of other companies, nutritionists, websites, etc)…
This is confusing to me. Can somebody explain this please.