Nate Green's Peri-Workout Nutrition Experience

[RAGDE]

ystarien,

The previous protocol (using it post workout) was based upon the science at the time. The short version was to halt catabolism after the workout and aid in recovery.
The new protocol reduces catabolism during the workout and provides nutrients to the muscle at a better efficiency.

Hypothetically, if one were to reduce catabolism during the workout by 10% and recovery stayed exactly the same as in the post workout protocol, there would be a total gain of 10%. Additionally, if the nutrients are more efficiently supplied to the muscles, anabolism could begin sooner and further increase total gains.

Itâ??s not just Surge before the workout, there are several other important factors that play into the new protocol for it to be effective.

Read CTâ??s Peri-workout thread as many of you questions have likely been answered there.

[Aragorn]

[quote]humble wrote:

I understand we’re all trying to do something “abnormal” by - and I say this loosely - trying to put on muscle to an otherwise unresponsive body which usually only wants to put on enough muscle to perform it’s required daily tasks, but do we do it at the expense of our receptors, our organs, our very health being bombarded with chemicals to induce a contradictory physiological state?

Am I missing something or is my physiology wrong?

[/quote]

Your health and organs are not in any danger with this protocol. I honestly can’t figure out how in the world you thought they would be. receptors are not at risk IF YOU’RE EATING HEALTHY LIKE YOU SHOULD BE. If the rest of your diet consists of ho-hos and twinkies then yeah, the extra insulin peak MIGHT make you more insulin resistant over time. If you’re eating healthy and meaty/veggie filled meals, then no.

The other thing you need to understand is that these “chemicals” you speak of are nutrients. Technically everything you have ever ingested over your entire life is a chemical. However this is not usually what we mean when we say that. And CT is not advocating dropping 10 IUs of Insulin into your veins. That would be dangerous and stupid…and chemical.

[humble]

From what I understood of the program, it includes a whopping amount of carb spiking to induce an insulin response. It involved supplements which have additives AND CHEMICALS. It involves bars and the like which also have their share of additives AND CHEMICALS.

The derivation or extraction of the ‘nutrients’ are also done so through a chemical procedure… most supplements are. They don’t just naturally fall off trees.

Before you get your knickers in a knot, I am not suggesting people stay away from supplements and freely admit to using them. I’ve bought almost everything Biotest offers as well as other companies.

If you think that organs aren’t affected by huge spikes in insulin, you haven’t met many type 2 diabetics who have had their pancreas shut down only to become insulin dependent and then bloat like hell. Funny thing is there is a lot of organ growth.

Insulin when released doesn’t only rush to your muscles, every organ of your body receives it’s share.

Ironic we’re speaking of this as my father suffered hypoglycemia 4 nights ago and were it not for the sheer luck my mother woke up to turn off a light he would have died in his sleep.

We were able to bring him back from a semi-stroke like state by spiking his sugar levels right up. Although dangerous too, far better and safer for it to be up than down. After an hour of careful treatment his blood glucose levels skyrocketed to a count of 30! normal range is about 5 but he was alive and had his wits.

My point is, my father isn’t a ‘dirty’ eater. Being a farm boy, he loves his fruits and veges and has never been a big eater. Stress is how he got diabetes and stress continues to hurt him.

The body doesn’t interpret mental or physical stress differently. Cortisol will be released either way. If you bombard your body, ie stress it with food or supplements not to mention to induce an insulinic state, this WILL no doubt wreak havoc with your physiology and biochemistry.

[humble]

[quote]RAGDE wrote:
ystarien,

The previous protocol (using it post workout) was based upon the science at the time. The short version was to halt catabolism after the workout and aid in recovery.
The new protocol reduces catabolism during the workout and provides nutrients to the muscle at a better efficiency.

Hypothetically, if one were to reduce catabolism during the workout by 10% and recovery stayed exactly the same as in the post workout protocol, there would be a total gain of 10%. Additionally, if the nutrients are more efficiently supplied to the muscles, anabolism could begin sooner and further increase total gains.

Itâ??s not just Surge before the workout, there are several other important factors that play into the new protocol for it to be effective.

Read CTâ??s Peri-workout thread as many of you questions have likely been answered there.
[/quote]

Catobolism doesn’t occur the minute you lift a weight. You actually have to do a darn good effort of messing things up (probably by way of flame thrower) to start losing muscle during a work out.
Heck, even if you left your post workout shake for 2 hours, the body isn’t magically going to deteriorate.

[HK24719]

[quote]humble wrote:
From what I understood of the program, it includes a whopping amount of carb spiking to induce an insulin response. It involved supplements which have additives AND CHEMICALS. It involves bars and the like which also have their share of additives AND CHEMICALS.

The derivation or extraction of the ‘nutrients’ are also done so through a chemical procedure… most supplements are. They don’t just naturally fall off trees.

Before you get your knickers in a knot, I am not suggesting people stay away from supplements and freely admit to using them. I’ve bought almost everything Biotest offers as well as other companies.

If you think that organs aren’t affected by huge spikes in insulin, you haven’t met many type 2 diabetics who have had their pancreas shut down only to become insulin dependent and then bloat like hell. Funny thing is there is a lot of organ growth.

Insulin when released doesn’t only rush to your muscles, every organ of your body receives it’s share.

Ironic we’re speaking of this as my father suffered hypoglycemia 4 nights ago and were it not for the sheer luck my mother woke up to turn off a light he would have died in his sleep.

We were able to bring him back from a semi-stroke like state by spiking his sugar levels right up. Although dangerous too, far better and safer for it to be up than down. After an hour of careful treatment his blood glucose levels skyrocketed to a count of 30! normal range is about 5 but he was alive and had his wits.

My point is, my father isn’t a ‘dirty’ eater. Being a farm boy, he loves his fruits and veges and has never been a big eater. Stress is how he got diabetes and stress continues to hurt him.

The body doesn’t interpret mental or physical stress differently. Cortisol will be released either way. If you bombard your body, ie stress it with food or supplements not to mention to induce an insulinic state, this WILL no doubt wreak havoc with your physiology and biochemistry.[/quote]

Nice attempt at a scare job.

Our bodies release insulin in response to everything we eat other than fat, so it’s not the devil it’s often made out to be. In a similar tone, cortisol is necessary in our bodies. Without it we’d not function very well.

Besides, insulin release is greatly blunted when nutrients are consumed immediately prior to and during exercise, so your fear of this protocol “wreaking havoc” are not based in science.

As for you fear of “CHEMICALS,” do you even know the definition of the word?

[humble]

[quote]HK24719 wrote:

Nice attempt at a scare job.

Our bodies release insulin in response to everything we eat other than fat, so it’s not the devil it’s often made out to be. In a similar tone, cortisol is necessary in our bodies. Without it we’d not function very well.

Besides, insulin release is greatly blunted when nutrients are consumed immediately prior to and during exercise, so your fear of this protocol “wreaking havoc” are not based in science.

As for you fear of “CHEMICALS,” do you even know the definition of the word?[/quote]

I’m not trying to fear monger but my concern remains legitimate if you take my ‘chemicals’ reference the way it was intended, ie loosely.

My previous point also remains to be answered. Perhaps I am missing something but as mentioned, I thought the primary aim for the body prior to physical activity is to limit Insulin as much as possible since it is the direct counterpart to Glucagon, the hormone which helps in the release of blood glucose to fuel muscles during a workout.

If the OP or CT can answer or anyone with a better understanding of physiology/biochem can answer, that would be appreciated as this is doing my head in.

[rsailor]

CT,

Being my BF% is in the mid/upper 20s/maybe low 30s (skin fold calipers put me at 22.8%–which I think may be a little on the low side, U.S. Navy Circumference Method puts me at 31.2%, Omron Bio Impedance reads 33.8%). I am, obviously, interested in losing fat while maintaining (and possible gaining) muscle mass.

I’ve read a number of your articles, including those dealing with peri nutrition (e.g., Refined Physique Transformation,4 Hot Topics from The Beast, etc.)

With respect to the above two articles, it appears the low carb protocol you recommend has hanged slightly.

“Refined Physique Transformation”

Pre-Workout (30 minutes prior)
5g glutamine
5g creatine

5g BCAA
Half scoop of whey isolate (12-16g)

During-Workout
20-40g of BCAA (the more you can afford the better)
10g of glutamine

Post-Workout
20-40g of glutamine (work up progressively as some might have stomach problems with mega dosing)
10-15g glycine
10-15 g leucine
1.5 scoops of whey isolate (40-45g)

============================

“4 Hot Topics from The Beast”

Pre/During Workout
1 scoop of whey hydrolysate or isolate (hydrolysate being the best)
0.1-0.2 grams of BCAA’s per pound of bodyweight
Have half of it pre-workout and the other half during the first three-quarters of the session.

Post-Workout
0.3 grams per pound of bodyweight of whey protein isolate
0.2 grams per pound of bodyweight of glutamine
5 grams of L-Leucine
5-10 grams of creatine
1 serving of Power Drive
400-800 mg of phosphatidylserine
0.1 grams per pound of bodyweight of glycine

I assume the latter protocol (4 Hot Topics…) is more current.

Have there been any further refinements?

Is total bodyweight a good measure for dosing when dealing with someone with excessive body fat?

What is the timing for the 1st half of the pre/during WO drink? 30 mins? Do you have a recommendation on the amount of water. Perhaps, a silly question, but it seems some have experienced issues with drinking too much water prior/during workout.

Also, I noticed the amount of L-Leucine has been reduced by half to two-thirds and is not based on body weight in the latter article. Will you please expand on the reason for the change?

Lastly, would you (or anyone else) please share ideas for a good online source for buying phosphatidylserine. 400mg-800mg per workout seems to equate to 2-4 bottles per month at a cost of over $100.00.

I appreciate the time you take in answering all of these questions. The information is invaluable.