After reading this site for years it seems to me that these are the standard stats for a average man to achieve. [/quote]
Im sorry, but this is really low goals IMO. I think anyone who works hard and actually fucking cares about training can push further than this, im more than likely younger than you and am extremely close to these and beating them in squat/pull.
[/quote]
If one can do these while not looking like shit with their shirt off and still being able to run/jump/play, they’re strong. Obviously not elite, but definitely strong by any “average” standard.
[/quote]
Your definition of strong, is weak IMO[/quote]
And I am sure your definition of fast is slow IMO.
He isn’t saying those numbers are great, but that if you can do those while not being a fatty, and still being able to do a bunch of other stuff in life, then thats a pretty good place to be.
I wouldn’t say that 200lb guy who deadlifts 500lb is weak.
We must remember that this thread does not include professional power lifters, strongmans (etc.) who are specialized to move huge weights.
And like I said before - body-shapes, genetics, time and effort put in the gym etc. makes a lot of different situations. Someone incredibly talented and strong can do 1,5x bw bench and 2x bw squat when almost untrained. When I first went to gym I could bench less than 170lb and squat less than 200lb, now my numbers are doubled (but not yet over these standards). But the starting point is not excuse to whine, just accept that the progress is slow.
This is all said before in this thread, and these are the reasons I don’t like saying that someone is weak or strong without comparing their training years, knowledge, and other factors…
After reading this site for years it seems to me that these are the standard stats for a average man to achieve. [/quote]
Im sorry, but this is really low goals IMO. I think anyone who works hard and actually fucking cares about training can push further than this, im more than likely younger than you and am extremely close to these and beating them in squat/pull.
[/quote]
If one can do these while not looking like shit with their shirt off and still being able to run/jump/play, they’re strong. Obviously not elite, but definitely strong by any “average” standard.
[/quote]
Your definition of strong, is weak IMO[/quote]
And I am sure your definition of fast is slow IMO.
He isn’t saying those numbers are great, but that if you can do those while not being a fatty, and still being able to do a bunch of other stuff in life, then thats a pretty good place to be. [/quote]
That’s exactly what I was saying. The Internet is a funny place. It’s littered with folk who rep double bodyweight bench and triple bw squats, but when you’re actually out in gyms you rarely see shit like that. If I see a 175 lb dude squat 365, no matter how wide or narrow his stance or where the bar’s placed on his back, I think to myself “that’s pretty strong”.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
That’s exactly what I was saying. The Internet is a funny place. It’s littered with folk who rep double bodyweight bench and triple bw squats, but when you’re actually out in gyms you rarely see shit like that. If I see a 175 lb dude squat 365, no matter how wide or narrow his stance or where the bar’s placed on his back, I think to myself “that’s pretty strong”. [/quote]
It makes sense honestly. People aren’t really going to brag about a 365lb squat at 175lbs, hence you see an absence of this representation online, whereas people will be far more willing to share a great accomplishment like triple bodyweight squats for reps. As such, we see far more examples of great trainees and far fewer examples of average trainees, leading one to believe that there really is no average.
Double edged sword. I think it’s great, because it’s promoting people to try harder than they thought possible (that whole “4 minute mile barrier” idea), but at the same time it gets some folks a little unrealistic on their expectations for what they can achieve/how fast they can get there.
Thanks all, and to Jim Wendler for Chiming in !
White Flash brought up an interesting point about the net. Because we know the breatheren here are STRONGER than the average gym rat.
We know about the Pete Rubish(es) in front of the washer/dryer in the basement (still laugh at that, awesome!). And all the HEAVY videos.
But in all actuality, this is not what you see in the 24Hrs of LaPlanetCrapFat ! (ok I concede crossfit is "ok"conditioning…Still love my Prowler!)
We see men that can bench 225-275 for reps, yet the Squat rack/ power rack go unused 95% of the time. We see people trying to replicate crossfit methodology (why?) in commercial fitness centers… we see people leading “Ripped” classes with a fat tire around their waist, if you are going to lead…should it not be by example?
I fully agree with Jim that we always need to be pushing our own limits, yet we do either knowing or unknowingly always compare ourselves to others. I was just trying to gain a baseline of where the rest of humanity is, and how far down the crapper it is continuing to circle.
This year my goals are to hit 1.25x bw bench, 2.25x Bw squat and 2.75x Bw Dead. Even if it mean moving up at a Half Pound per Week.
Always Always trying to move Farther and Farther from being a bleeding Vag. Happy New Year to all … thanks for all the great years !
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
That’s exactly what I was saying. The Internet is a funny place. It’s littered with folk who rep double bodyweight bench and triple bw squats, but when you’re actually out in gyms you rarely see shit like that. If I see a 175 lb dude squat 365, no matter how wide or narrow his stance or where the bar’s placed on his back, I think to myself “that’s pretty strong”. [/quote]
It makes sense honestly. People aren’t really going to brag about a 365lb squat at 175lbs, hence you see an absence of this representation online, whereas people will be far more willing to share a great accomplishment like triple bodyweight squats for reps. As such, we see far more examples of great trainees and far fewer examples of average trainees, leading one to believe that there really is no average.
Double edged sword. I think it’s great, because it’s promoting people to try harder than they thought possible (that whole “4 minute mile barrier” idea), but at the same time it gets some folks a little unrealistic on their expectations for what they can achieve/how fast they can get there.[/quote]
I don’t disagree with this, but I don’t think average strong is strong. Strong is strong. And strong means not being average. This goes with saying that not everyone can be strong, and that’s kind of the point. Even those who train hard will not always become strong. They can become stronger and I commend and respect that entirely. I respect anyone who pushes themselves physically. But I wouldn’t look at that person and say I think theyre strong.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
That’s exactly what I was saying. The Internet is a funny place. It’s littered with folk who rep double bodyweight bench and triple bw squats, but when you’re actually out in gyms you rarely see shit like that. If I see a 175 lb dude squat 365, no matter how wide or narrow his stance or where the bar’s placed on his back, I think to myself “that’s pretty strong”. [/quote]
It makes sense honestly. People aren’t really going to brag about a 365lb squat at 175lbs, hence you see an absence of this representation online, whereas people will be far more willing to share a great accomplishment like triple bodyweight squats for reps. As such, we see far more examples of great trainees and far fewer examples of average trainees, leading one to believe that there really is no average.
Double edged sword. I think it’s great, because it’s promoting people to try harder than they thought possible (that whole “4 minute mile barrier” idea), but at the same time it gets some folks a little unrealistic on their expectations for what they can achieve/how fast they can get there.[/quote]
I don’t disagree with this, but I don’t think average strong is strong. Strong is strong. And strong means not being average. This goes with saying that not everyone can be strong, and that’s kind of the point. Even those who train hard will not always become strong. They can become stronger and I commend and respect that entirely. I respect anyone who pushes themselves physically. But I wouldn’t look at that person and say I think theyre strong. [/quote]
It’s because you’re young. I’d be willing to bet that most, if not all of the posters over 30 here once shared your attitude. It varies from person to person, but about 25-28 you start being a little less judgemental and dogmatic in your approach and start being a little more open and accepting of things you were once closed off to. It may not make sense now, but provided you’re (people in general, not just you) not a total bozo , you’ll get there too.
Wanted to add that I can actually hit all of those (except the press, shoulder won’t allow it) for 3-5 reps depending on the lift. Even though I acknowledged earlier that I consider that as strong, I don’t really think of myself as strong. That probably has more to do with being competitive and my own worst critic (putting my bench against Ecchastang’s for example) than any lack of “weightroom accomplishment”. Am I strong stacked up against some here? Not at all. Am I pretty strong in a general sense, relatively speaking? I’ll probably never think so, but when looking around and from comments I get in the gym, yeah, fairly so.
" Am I strong stacked up against some here? Not at all. Am I pretty strong in a general sense, relatively speaking? I’ll probably never think so, but when looking around and from comments I get in the gym, yeah, fairly so. "
This in a nutshell is the point of this thread. To not only realize that you need to lift for yourself and be able to push yourself , but to look around
at those around you in the commercial establishments and realize just how much more focused, driven and commited you are then the average
person is. How many of them would be so much stronger and better off if they just stuck to the Fundemental 4 (Squat, Bench, Deadlift and Prowler).
By the way, I am 47 years young and really do kick ass in most events that I go and compete in. Not only in my general age group 45-49, but I generally end up in the top 15-20% overall even out of my specific sport(cycling, xc skiing). Elite, No. Just Strong(er) , Fast(er) and more Agile than most …
[quote]killerDIRK wrote:
" Am I strong stacked up against some here? Not at all. Am I pretty strong in a general sense, relatively speaking? I’ll probably never think so, but when looking around and from comments I get in the gym, yeah, fairly so. "
This in a nutshell is the point of this thread. To not only realize that you need to lift for yourself and be able to push yourself , but to look around
at those around you in the commercial establishments and realize just how much more focused, driven and commited you are then the average
person is. How many of them would be so much stronger and better off if they just stuck to the Fundemental 4 (Squat, Bench, Deadlift and Prowler).
By the way, I am 47 years young and really do kick ass in most events that I go and compete in. Not only in my general age group 45-49, but I generally end up in the top 15-20% overall even out of my specific sport(cycling, xc skiing). Elite, No. Just Strong(er) , Fast(er) and more Agile than most …
[/quote]
You know, when I was younger I used to buy into the ridiculous “muscle building elitist” attitude, that Planet Fitness sucks, Crossfit is for suckers, if you’re under 2-bills you’re a broad, the whole nine. You know what? That’s a shitty attitude. If someone wants to go to Planet Fitness, awesome. If someone wants to improve their Fran time, great. If someone goes to the gym just to be “in shape” instead of yoked out of their skull, that’s cool.
Looking down your nose at someone because they don’t share your “hardcore” attitude doesn’t make you cool, it makes you an insecure douche. Lifting weights doesn’t make you hardcore. Being a single mom with three kids and as many jobs just so your kids have food in their mouths and clothes on their backs is hardcore. Lifting weights is just a hobby. A hobby I enjoy and take fairly seriously, but a hobby nonetheless. What we do is no more hardcore than building model airplanes or being in a book club. It is literally just lifting and lowering weights.