My Thoughts on Dietary Advice for a Newb

Bigger Stronger Leaner
1 
 I've been dieting since March, and I've learned a lot about eating and training in that short time period. I've actually made some size/strength gains while losing quite a bit of weight and I would like to pass some information on so others don't find themselves in my shoes before my diet. 

 I feel like a lot of the advice given here is well intentioned but does not set a newb up for long term success. Here are a few changes I think are reasonable, this post may be edited or added to in the future or as others provide their ideas and imput.
  1. Milk sucks the amount of sugar in it is rediculous
  • instead try using heavy whipping cream protein powder and water
    Why would you add sugar to your regular diet outside of pre/peri/post workout? Heavy cream provides calories from nearly entirely fat turning that protein shake into a real meal. It also tastes delicious and because it doesnt contain the sugar in milk it is a hell of a lot better for building muscle while not gaining uneeded fat.

  1. Eat your carbs the way nature intended
    Do you really think that “whole wheat pasta” is as good for your physique and health as a potato, rice, oats, or a vegetable? Some of you may be able to stay lean while often eating breads and pastas but I think the alternatives I listed are far better.

  2. bodyweight in grams of protein is bullshit: I’m shooting for 350+ grams of protein at 187.5 pounds right now. I recover faster and can train 6 times a week while dieting. I’ve added at least a quarter inch to my arms since I started my diet as well.
    -I honestly think bodyweight in grams of protein is the absolute bare minimum to not regress.

  3. Steam brocolli in the microwave, cover it in cheese. getting your calories and your veggies in the same diet sounds like a recipe for success. General health is important in this game. Healthy bodies train harder than sick ones.

  4. You don’t need pastas and mac and cheese to go hit your calories. Go buy a 1+ package of ground chuck and cover it in reduced sugar ketchup and shredded cheddar. bam 1.5k+ calories in one sitting.

I once was a skinny kid who bulked up to 230 and while I didn’t look fat in clothes, I sure as hell was not happy taking my shirt off. While a teenager I mostly ate the shit my parents made and ate enough of whatever it was to hit my protein goal. I drank a large amount of milk and ate a lot of carb rich foods that are often recomended to newbs here. If I could go back and do it all again I would be stronger, leaner, and more muscular than I am now.

2

Stopped at “milk sucks”

3

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:

  1. Milk sucks the amount of sugar in it is rediculous
  • instead try using heavy whipping cream protein powder and water
    Why would you add sugar to your regular diet outside of pre/peri/post workout? Heavy cream provides calories from nearly entirely fat turning that protein shake into a real meal. It also tastes delicious and because it doesnt contain the sugar in milk it is a hell of a lot better for building muscle while not gaining uneeded fat.[/quote]

there is some good and bad here. milk has been shown for longer then most of us have been alive that it can help pack on size. chocolate milk has even been shown to be a superior post workout recovery drink. the simple point it is trying to make is to up ones calories. some people just cant eat enough so drinking it can help.

now does that mean it sucks, nope. it works for adding extra calories. its that simple. if you are disciplined enough to eat enough then you dont even need that gallon of milk a day.

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
3. bodyweight in grams of protein is bullshit: I’m shooting for 350+ grams of protein at 187.5 pounds right now. I recover faster and can train 6 times a week while dieting. I’ve added at least a quarter inch to my arms since I started my diet as well.
-I honestly think bodyweight in grams of protein is the absolute bare minimum to not regress.[/quote]

read that link. it is an interview with a NSCA coach of the year. someone far more knowledgable and experienced then both of us combined. in there he talks about how even poor nutrition people can get big if their workouts are good. this man is even a vegetarian.

it is my opinion that this entire believe that massive protein is needed to even maintain muscle is just ridiculous. just look at any vegan bodybuilder. they are probably much larger then you and even me. and they do it with far less protein intake.

the key IMO is even calories. if massive protein is what you need to get the calories you need then of course its going to make you think it is protein that is helping. but if you get enough calories from say, milk, then you will still recover and grow and it wasnt from massive protein. getting enough calories is what did it. it is my strong opinion that even if 50+% of your diet is fat intake and you get enough total calories you will recover well and grow/adapt.

http://jap.physiology.org/content/73/2/767.short
that research article from the journal of applied physiology shows us that far less then what you state as a minimal to maintain is enough to grow muscle as a beginner. i weigh 190lbs and at the upper end of what it shows would put me as a need of 150grams a day. your statement claims i need 190+ per day and using your example i would need nearly 400grams a day. so you may want to rethink that one.

i am sure this is going to spark quite the debate like it always has when this topic comes up. that is why i specifically stated thats its the calories that are more important as long as a minimal amount of protein is taken in. i propose the minimal amount as what was recommended in that last link i provided.

i also provide this research article:
http://jap.physiology.org/content/64/1/187.short
it shows that bodybuilders need just above what a sedentary person needs and that endurance athletes need much more then bodybuilders and even then not near to the amount you claim is needed.

just remember, circumstantial evidence is not proof it works. repeatable consistent results are.

4

[quote]asooneyeonig wrote:

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:

  1. Milk sucks the amount of sugar in it is rediculous
  • instead try using heavy whipping cream protein powder and water
    Why would you add sugar to your regular diet outside of pre/peri/post workout? Heavy cream provides calories from nearly entirely fat turning that protein shake into a real meal. It also tastes delicious and because it doesnt contain the sugar in milk it is a hell of a lot better for building muscle while not gaining uneeded fat.[/quote]

there is some good and bad here. milk has been shown for longer then most of us have been alive that it can help pack on size. chocolate milk has even been shown to be a superior post workout recovery drink. the simple point it is trying to make is to up ones calories. some people just cant eat enough so drinking it can help.

now does that mean it sucks, nope. it works for adding extra calories. its that simple. if you are disciplined enough to eat enough then you dont even need that gallon of milk a day.

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
3. bodyweight in grams of protein is bullshit: I’m shooting for 350+ grams of protein at 187.5 pounds right now. I recover faster and can train 6 times a week while dieting. I’ve added at least a quarter inch to my arms since I started my diet as well.
-I honestly think bodyweight in grams of protein is the absolute bare minimum to not regress.[/quote]

read that link. it is an interview with a NSCA coach of the year. someone far more knowledgable and experienced then both of us combined. in there he talks about how even poor nutrition people can get big if their workouts are good. this man is even a vegetarian.

it is my opinion that this entire believe that massive protein is needed to even maintain muscle is just ridiculous. just look at any vegan bodybuilder. they are probably much larger then you and even me. and they do it with far less protein intake.

the key IMO is even calories. if massive protein is what you need to get the calories you need then of course its going to make you think it is protein that is helping. but if you get enough calories from say, milk, then you will still recover and grow and it wasnt from massive protein. getting enough calories is what did it. it is my strong opinion that even if 50+% of your diet is fat intake and you get enough total calories you will recover well and grow/adapt.

http://jap.physiology.org/content/73/2/767.short
that research article from the journal of applied physiology shows us that far less then what you state as a minimal to maintain is enough to grow muscle as a beginner. i weigh 190lbs and at the upper end of what it shows would put me as a need of 150grams a day. your statement claims i need 190+ per day and using your example i would need nearly 400grams a day. so you may want to rethink that one.

i am sure this is going to spark quite the debate like it always has when this topic comes up. that is why i specifically stated thats its the calories that are more important as long as a minimal amount of protein is taken in. i propose the minimal amount as what was recommended in that last link i provided.

i also provide this research article:
http://jap.physiology.org/content/64/1/187.short
it shows that bodybuilders need just above what a sedentary person needs and that endurance athletes need much more then bodybuilders and even then not near to the amount you claim is needed.

just remember, circumstantial evidence is not proof it works. repeatable consistent results are.
[/quote]

I was harsh, but the point is that while things may work to an extent they are NOT the fastest or most ideal way to get the finished product. You can drink milk and put on size obviously but why not consume a higher protein beverage full of slow digesting fats that doesn’t have the sugar content milk has? Outside of being near a workout there isn’t any benefit to eating sugar unless you like putting on fat

Being vegan while bodybuilding isn’t ideal, and most were not vegan their entire careers. Something being possible doesn’t mean it’s ideal.

If the idea is to become a more advanced weightlifter why would you eat like a mediocre one? The largest number of guys who actually get big consume a really large amount of protein.

You must be pretty fat at 190 to get significantly stronger at 150 grams of protein a day. Sorry, where are all of the big guys who only eat less than or equal to 1gram/pound of protein?

I appreciate the well thought out and researched response, but where are the real world results to what you are claiming. I haven’t seen any large guys on this board and others claim they eat that little amount of protein.

I’m not saying anything doesn’t work, but it is not optimal. Why stand in defence of the less effective method? Why delay the finished product?

5

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
Abridged

…Some Sh*t…
[/quote]
Your top five list of things to tell noobs includes microwaved broccoli and sloppy joes without the bun?

6

[quote]asooneyeonig wrote:

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:

  1. Milk sucks the amount of sugar in it is rediculous
  • instead try using heavy whipping cream protein powder and water
    Why would you add sugar to your regular diet outside of pre/peri/post workout? Heavy cream provides calories from nearly entirely fat turning that protein shake into a real meal. It also tastes delicious and because it doesnt contain the sugar in milk it is a hell of a lot better for building muscle while not gaining uneeded fat.[/quote]

there is some good and bad here. milk has been shown for longer then most of us have been alive that it can help pack on size. chocolate milk has even been shown to be a superior post workout recovery drink. the simple point it is trying to make is to up ones calories. some people just cant eat enough so drinking it can help.

now does that mean it sucks, nope. it works for adding extra calories. its that simple. if you are disciplined enough to eat enough then you dont even need that gallon of milk a day.

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
3. bodyweight in grams of protein is bullshit: I’m shooting for 350+ grams of protein at 187.5 pounds right now. I recover faster and can train 6 times a week while dieting. I’ve added at least a quarter inch to my arms since I started my diet as well.
-I honestly think bodyweight in grams of protein is the absolute bare minimum to not regress.[/quote]

read that link. it is an interview with a NSCA coach of the year. someone far more knowledgable and experienced then both of us combined. in there he talks about how even poor nutrition people can get big if their workouts are good. this man is even a vegetarian.

it is my opinion that this entire believe that massive protein is needed to even maintain muscle is just ridiculous. just look at any vegan bodybuilder. they are probably much larger then you and even me. and they do it with far less protein intake.

the key IMO is even calories. if massive protein is what you need to get the calories you need then of course its going to make you think it is protein that is helping. but if you get enough calories from say, milk, then you will still recover and grow and it wasnt from massive protein. getting enough calories is what did it. it is my strong opinion that even if 50+% of your diet is fat intake and you get enough total calories you will recover well and grow/adapt.

http://jap.physiology.org/content/73/2/767.short
that research article from the journal of applied physiology shows us that far less then what you state as a minimal to maintain is enough to grow muscle as a beginner. i weigh 190lbs and at the upper end of what it shows would put me as a need of 150grams a day. your statement claims i need 190+ per day and using your example i would need nearly 400grams a day. so you may want to rethink that one.

i am sure this is going to spark quite the debate like it always has when this topic comes up. that is why i specifically stated thats its the calories that are more important as long as a minimal amount of protein is taken in. i propose the minimal amount as what was recommended in that last link i provided.

i also provide this research article:
http://jap.physiology.org/content/64/1/187.short
it shows that bodybuilders need just above what a sedentary person needs and that endurance athletes need much more then bodybuilders and even then not near to the amount you claim is needed.

just remember, circumstantial evidence is not proof it works. repeatable consistent results are.
[/quote]

People have been drinking cow milk for thousands of years. They have been drinkning milk in general since we came into existance. We are mammals. Mammals drink milk.

Milk is not just to get in extra calories. It is a quality protein source like eggs or meat.

You have no idea how much protein a vegan bodybuilder consumes. They could be consuming 300+ grams a day just like normal bodybuilders. You have no idea.

The “key” to building muscle is not just calories. Your assumption is wrong. Muscle is made (mostly) of contractile proteins. If you do not have protein, you cannot build muscle. At all. It’s impossible. Sure, you may not need 300+ grams a day, but you do need a large amount.

7

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:

[quote]asooneyeonig wrote:

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:

  1. Milk sucks the amount of sugar in it is rediculous
  • instead try using heavy whipping cream protein powder and water
    Why would you add sugar to your regular diet outside of pre/peri/post workout? Heavy cream provides calories from nearly entirely fat turning that protein shake into a real meal. It also tastes delicious and because it doesnt contain the sugar in milk it is a hell of a lot better for building muscle while not gaining uneeded fat.[/quote]

there is some good and bad here. milk has been shown for longer then most of us have been alive that it can help pack on size. chocolate milk has even been shown to be a superior post workout recovery drink. the simple point it is trying to make is to up ones calories. some people just cant eat enough so drinking it can help.

now does that mean it sucks, nope. it works for adding extra calories. its that simple. if you are disciplined enough to eat enough then you dont even need that gallon of milk a day.

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
3. bodyweight in grams of protein is bullshit: I’m shooting for 350+ grams of protein at 187.5 pounds right now. I recover faster and can train 6 times a week while dieting. I’ve added at least a quarter inch to my arms since I started my diet as well.
-I honestly think bodyweight in grams of protein is the absolute bare minimum to not regress.[/quote]

read that link. it is an interview with a NSCA coach of the year. someone far more knowledgable and experienced then both of us combined. in there he talks about how even poor nutrition people can get big if their workouts are good. this man is even a vegetarian.

it is my opinion that this entire believe that massive protein is needed to even maintain muscle is just ridiculous. just look at any vegan bodybuilder. they are probably much larger then you and even me. and they do it with far less protein intake.

the key IMO is even calories. if massive protein is what you need to get the calories you need then of course its going to make you think it is protein that is helping. but if you get enough calories from say, milk, then you will still recover and grow and it wasnt from massive protein. getting enough calories is what did it. it is my strong opinion that even if 50+% of your diet is fat intake and you get enough total calories you will recover well and grow/adapt.

http://jap.physiology.org/content/73/2/767.short
that research article from the journal of applied physiology shows us that far less then what you state as a minimal to maintain is enough to grow muscle as a beginner. i weigh 190lbs and at the upper end of what it shows would put me as a need of 150grams a day. your statement claims i need 190+ per day and using your example i would need nearly 400grams a day. so you may want to rethink that one.

i am sure this is going to spark quite the debate like it always has when this topic comes up. that is why i specifically stated thats its the calories that are more important as long as a minimal amount of protein is taken in. i propose the minimal amount as what was recommended in that last link i provided.

i also provide this research article:
http://jap.physiology.org/content/64/1/187.short
it shows that bodybuilders need just above what a sedentary person needs and that endurance athletes need much more then bodybuilders and even then not near to the amount you claim is needed.

just remember, circumstantial evidence is not proof it works. repeatable consistent results are.
[/quote]

You can drink milk and put on size obviously but why not consume a higher protein beverage full of slow digesting fats that doesn’t have the sugar content milk has? Outside of being near a workout there isn’t any benefit to eating sugar unless you like putting on fat.

[/quote]

Just so it’s out there, all carbohydrates are sugar. The words are synonymous.

Of course, when people think of “sugar” or see sugar on a nutrition label, they assume monosaccharides. Well, lactose is a disaccharide, so it will not digest as quickly as a monosaccharide, which is generally the complaint with “sugar”.

Also, because of the fat, protein, and complex carbohydrate content of milk, the lactose will digest even slower. For all intensive purposes, in milk lactose acts like a complex carbohydrate, not a “sugar”.

2 examples,

1- You never see anyone drinking milk before a workout, or kids getting hyper after drinking a bunch of milk. It doesn’t give an energy boost, it slows you down. If you drank a half gallon of milk right now, you wouldn’t want to do a damn think for several hours.

2- Babies drink milk all day, every day, for years. In fact, for a significant period, that is all they drink. If the lactose in milk acted like a tradiditonal “sugar” then you would expect to see a bunch of pre-diabetic and diabetic babies and toddlers. You don’t.

8

[quote]JLone wrote:

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
Abridged

…Some Sh*t…
[/quote]
Your top five list of things to tell noobs includes microwaved broccoli and sloppy joes without the bun?

[/quote]

Quickly steamed brocolli and an easy high calorie high protein meal is a bad thing? IDK man it beats the hell out of weight gainer shakes.

9

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
I appreciate the well thought out and researched response, but where are the real world results to what you are claiming. [/quote]

the real world results are the research articles i linked to. these are real people with real results with repeatable results. if proof is not proof enough then that is your opinion. i provided facts, not opinion.

also notice i said that more protein can help. especially if more protein gives you the increase in calorie that you needed. as long as the minimal protein is taken in then enough calories is what matters. following that logic and the fact that most people think that dietary fat is so dangerous the only macronutrient left is protein to increase total caloric intake. so its easy to see why people think that more protein increases muscle mass.

but lets take a look back at one of the links i posted. it shows that endurance athletes require more protein then bodybuilders. why is that? they are not trying to gain mass? they are rarely growing any muscle, and yet they require more protein. it also proves with real people and real world results that bodybuilders only need slightly more protein then a sedentary person. these real people getting real world results show you are wrong. if you were right then the real world results would not have happened. how can you explain that? i can explain my view point with real world people in real world results that is well, in other words, backed up by science. science says you are wrong. one of us is wrong. we cant both be correct. funny thing i can explain how your viewpoint can work, just not in the way you want it to be.

10

[quote]Chris87 wrote:

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:

[quote]asooneyeonig wrote:

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:

  1. Milk sucks the amount of sugar in it is rediculous
  • instead try using heavy whipping cream protein powder and water
    Why would you add sugar to your regular diet outside of pre/peri/post workout? Heavy cream provides calories from nearly entirely fat turning that protein shake into a real meal. It also tastes delicious and because it doesnt contain the sugar in milk it is a hell of a lot better for building muscle while not gaining uneeded fat.[/quote]

there is some good and bad here. milk has been shown for longer then most of us have been alive that it can help pack on size. chocolate milk has even been shown to be a superior post workout recovery drink. the simple point it is trying to make is to up ones calories. some people just cant eat enough so drinking it can help.

now does that mean it sucks, nope. it works for adding extra calories. its that simple. if you are disciplined enough to eat enough then you dont even need that gallon of milk a day.

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
3. bodyweight in grams of protein is bullshit: I’m shooting for 350+ grams of protein at 187.5 pounds right now. I recover faster and can train 6 times a week while dieting. I’ve added at least a quarter inch to my arms since I started my diet as well.
-I honestly think bodyweight in grams of protein is the absolute bare minimum to not regress.[/quote]

read that link. it is an interview with a NSCA coach of the year. someone far more knowledgable and experienced then both of us combined. in there he talks about how even poor nutrition people can get big if their workouts are good. this man is even a vegetarian.

it is my opinion that this entire believe that massive protein is needed to even maintain muscle is just ridiculous. just look at any vegan bodybuilder. they are probably much larger then you and even me. and they do it with far less protein intake.

the key IMO is even calories. if massive protein is what you need to get the calories you need then of course its going to make you think it is protein that is helping. but if you get enough calories from say, milk, then you will still recover and grow and it wasnt from massive protein. getting enough calories is what did it. it is my strong opinion that even if 50+% of your diet is fat intake and you get enough total calories you will recover well and grow/adapt.

http://jap.physiology.org/content/73/2/767.short
that research article from the journal of applied physiology shows us that far less then what you state as a minimal to maintain is enough to grow muscle as a beginner. i weigh 190lbs and at the upper end of what it shows would put me as a need of 150grams a day. your statement claims i need 190+ per day and using your example i would need nearly 400grams a day. so you may want to rethink that one.

i am sure this is going to spark quite the debate like it always has when this topic comes up. that is why i specifically stated thats its the calories that are more important as long as a minimal amount of protein is taken in. i propose the minimal amount as what was recommended in that last link i provided.

i also provide this research article:
http://jap.physiology.org/content/64/1/187.short
it shows that bodybuilders need just above what a sedentary person needs and that endurance athletes need much more then bodybuilders and even then not near to the amount you claim is needed.

just remember, circumstantial evidence is not proof it works. repeatable consistent results are.
[/quote]

You can drink milk and put on size obviously but why not consume a higher protein beverage full of slow digesting fats that doesn’t have the sugar content milk has? Outside of being near a workout there isn’t any benefit to eating sugar unless you like putting on fat.

[/quote]

Just so it’s out there, all carbohydrates are sugar. The words are synonymous.

Of course, when people think of “sugar” or see sugar on a nutrition label, they assume monosaccharides. Well, lactose is a disaccharide, so it will not digest as quickly as a monosaccharide, which is generally the complaint with “sugar”.

Also, because of the fat, protein, and complex carbohydrate content of milk, the lactose will digest even slower. For all intensive purposes, in milk lactose acts like a complex carbohydrate, not a “sugar”.

2 examples,

1- You never see anyone drinking milk before a workout, or kids getting hyper after drinking a bunch of milk. It doesn’t give an energy boost, it slows you down. If you drank a half gallon of milk right now, you wouldn’t want to do a damn think for several hours.

2- Babies drink milk all day, every day, for years. In fact, for a significant period, that is all they drink. If the lactose in milk acted like a tradiditonal “sugar” then you would expect to see a bunch of pre-diabetic and diabetic babies and toddlers. You don’t.[/quote]

You are taking what I said in context for gaining less fat and gaining muscle and applying it to babies? You haven’t explained how drinking milk is better than heavy whipping+ Milk protein isolate+ water for gaining muscle without putting on fat.

11

[quote]Chris87 wrote:

You have no idea how much protein a vegan bodybuilder consumes. They could be consuming 300+ grams a day just like normal bodybuilders. You have no idea.

The “key” to building muscle is not just calories. Your assumption is wrong. Muscle is made (mostly) of contractile proteins. If you do not have protein, you cannot build muscle. At all. It’s impossible. Sure, you may not need 300+ grams a day, but you do need a large amount.[/quote]

The first part I don’t disagree with. But where are all of these guys? Are there any vegans in the absolute top of strength sports and bodybuilding? How many people in the top even 10% are vegan? And if there are any where they vegan for the bulk of their careers? There was a thread about this years back. Nearly every top “vegan” athlete ended up having spent the bulk of their careers as a meat eater and nearly all of them end up quit being vegan because it’s NOT as effective as a mixed diet.

Just because you CAN doesn’t mean it’s the best way. A lot of the diet advice recomended here is why guys stop getting stronger after hitting two plates on the bench press.

12

[quote]asooneyeonig wrote:

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
I appreciate the well thought out and researched response, but where are the real world results to what you are claiming. [/quote]

the real world results are the research articles i linked to. these are real people with real results with repeatable results. if proof is not proof enough then that is your opinion. i provided facts, not opinion.

also notice i said that more protein can help. especially if more protein gives you the increase in calorie that you needed. as long as the minimal protein is taken in then enough calories is what matters. following that logic and the fact that most people think that dietary fat is so dangerous the only macronutrient left is protein to increase total caloric intake. so its easy to see why people think that more protein increases muscle mass.

but lets take a look back at one of the links i posted. it shows that endurance athletes require more protein then bodybuilders. why is that? they are not trying to gain mass? they are rarely growing any muscle, and yet they require more protein. it also proves with real people and real world results that bodybuilders only need slightly more protein then a sedentary person. these real people getting real world results show you are wrong. if you were right then the real world results would not have happened. how can you explain that? i can explain my view point with real world people in real world results that is well, in other words, backed up by science. science says you are wrong. one of us is wrong. we cant both be correct. funny thing i can explain how your viewpoint can work, just not in the way you want it to be.

[/quote]

Show me 10 successful strength atheletes or bodybuilders that use the guidelines or even BELIEVE what you just posted.

13

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
You must be pretty fat at 190 to get significantly stronger at 150 grams of protein a day. Sorry, where are all of the big guys who only eat less than or equal to 1gram/pound of protein?
[/quote]

im 16% at 190. and i dont measure any of my macronutrients. im sure many days i dont even get 100gr/day of protein. others im sure im over 200gr. i doubt i ever get 300gr/day. i just dont eat that much meat. i am not a bodybuilder either so being that percentage is fine by me. as long as i am getting stronger i am happy. and is this going to be the basis of your arguments now? personal attacks. just wondering, as i will continue to back myself up with real world results from real world science.

14

[quote]asooneyeonig wrote:

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
I appreciate the well thought out and researched response, but where are the real world results to what you are claiming. [/quote]

the real world results are the research articles i linked to. these are real people with real results with repeatable results. if proof is not proof enough then that is your opinion. i provided facts, not opinion.

also notice i said that more protein can help. especially if more protein gives you the increase in calorie that you needed. as long as the minimal protein is taken in then enough calories is what matters. following that logic and the fact that most people think that dietary fat is so dangerous the only macronutrient left is protein to increase total caloric intake. so its easy to see why people think that more protein increases muscle mass.

but lets take a look back at one of the links i posted. it shows that endurance athletes require more protein then bodybuilders. why is that? they are not trying to gain mass? they are rarely growing any muscle, and yet they require more protein. it also proves with real people and real world results that bodybuilders only need slightly more protein then a sedentary person. these real people getting real world results show you are wrong. if you were right then the real world results would not have happened. how can you explain that? i can explain my view point with real world people in real world results that is well, in other words, backed up by science. science says you are wrong. one of us is wrong. we cant both be correct. funny thing i can explain how your viewpoint can work, just not in the way you want it to be.

[/quote]

Six people, and for a short period of time. Does the word sample size mean anything to you? There was no claim in the abstract over than they did not lose muscle. Not losing muscle does not equal most ideal diet for bodybuilding. I can find the diets of a ton of successful powerlifters and bodybuilders and compare their diets to what you recommend.

I don’t care if a study says that a bodybuilder only needs 1g/kg to maintain muscle mass for a relatively short period of time, and neither should you.

15

[quote]asooneyeonig wrote:

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
You must be pretty fat at 190 to get significantly stronger at 150 grams of protein a day. Sorry, where are all of the big guys who only eat less than or equal to 1gram/pound of protein?
[/quote]

im 16% at 190. and i dont measure any of my macronutrients. im sure many days i dont even get 100gr/day of protein. others im sure im over 200gr. i doubt i ever get 300gr/day. i just dont eat that much meat. i am not a bodybuilder either so being that percentage is fine by me. as long as i am getting stronger i am happy. and is this going to be the basis of your arguments now? personal attacks. just wondering, as i will continue to back myself up with real world results from real world science.[/quote]

And that is all fine and dandy, but you are still an intermediate weightlifter and if you don’t change your eating habits you will remain that way forever. I won’t judge you but you’re holding yourself back.

16

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
You are taking what I said in context for gaining less fat and gaining muscle and applying it to babies? You haven’t explained how drinking milk is better than heavy whipping+ Milk protein isolate+ water for gaining muscle without putting on fat.[/quote]

So what’s your thoughts on Vince Gironda’s half and half mixed evenly with ginger ale, drunk between meals?

17

[quote]asooneyeonig wrote:

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
You must be pretty fat at 190 to get significantly stronger at 150 grams of protein a day. Sorry, where are all of the big guys who only eat less than or equal to 1gram/pound of protein?
[/quote]

im 16% at 190. and i dont measure any of my macronutrients. im sure many days i dont even get 100gr/day of protein. others im sure im over 200gr. i doubt i ever get 300gr/day. i just dont eat that much meat. i am not a bodybuilder either so being that percentage is fine by me. as long as i am getting stronger i am happy. and is this going to be the basis of your arguments now? personal attacks. just wondering, as i will continue to back myself up with real world results from real world science.[/quote]

An obscure article from 1988 that doesnt even give the names of the “elite bodybuilders” using a sample size of 6 individuals and over a relatively short period of time and doesn’t involve progressing is NOT relevant. A strength coach’s diet who may understand how to lift weights but does NOT look like an advanced athlete in the strength sports or bodybuilding is NOT a good example of how to eat.

I ate a lot like you for many years while I was in high school and lived with my parents. I averaged around 200-220g of protein a day. Lots of calories. I weighed between 200-120 unless I dieted down for a powerlifting meet. In highschool I squatted 375,benched 245, and pulled 485
iirc in a powerlifting meet at like 185 or some shit(I stopped dieting because I felt like cutting weight was pointless and I just wanted to have fun while I was there). I had beaten all of those numbers in the gym, but guess what? progress stopped. I had pushed myself as far as my shitty diet would allow. At this point you have 3 options

  1. stop progressing
  2. eat more of the same foods and stay chubby while you make meager gains
  3. start eating large amounts of the best food you can get

I went through all of those options in that order. I’m fairly certain you’ll end up at the same stage soon.

18

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
You are taking what I said in context for gaining less fat and gaining muscle and applying it to babies? You haven’t explained how drinking milk is better than heavy whipping+ Milk protein isolate+ water for gaining muscle without putting on fat.[/quote]

So what’s your thoughts on Vince Gironda’s half and half mixed evenly with ginger ale, drunk between meals?[/quote]

Sounds like it would put hair on your chest.

19

Not a personal attack, but you have been training for less than three years, are 20 years old, and have been dieting for four months. There’s nothing wrong with giving someone your experiences when they ask a question, but do you really feel qualified to give advice? When I was 20 years old I had a six pack on a whiskey and pizza diet, but I don’t recommend it.

Once again, not trying to take a shot at you and if you dieted from 230 from 187 then that’s an awesome accomplishment. I just think you will find that speaking in absolutes will often get you criticism, some of it legitimate.

20

[quote]ryno76 wrote:
Not a personal attack, but you have been training for less than three years, are 20 years old, and have been dieting for four months. There’s nothing wrong with giving someone your experiences when they ask a question, but do you really feel qualified to give advice? When I was 20 years old I had a six pack on a whiskey and pizza diet, but I don’t recommend it.

Once again, not trying to take a shot at you and if you dieted from 230 from 187 then that’s an awesome accomplishment. I just think you will find that speaking in absolutes will often get you criticism, some of it legitimate.[/quote]

Join date 2007 trained less than 3 years?

No, I don’t think I would give advice out to other people bigger or stronger than me, that would be dumb. However the advice given in the beginners section is largely the shit that put me behind once I had developed some level of strength. Spinning your wheels once you aren’t a rank beginner anymore is incredibly dumb. I hit that point and many will here as well. I learned a few tricks on what can be improved easilly and I decided to share them.

How, in any way is drinking milk better than MPI+heavy cream?

How, in any way is ground beef+cheese not muscle food?

I got stronger or maintained while dieting from 230 to ~190

Where would I be right now if I had followed the advice I posted above over the shit that gets parroted in the beginner’s section? I would be bigger, stronger, and leaner than I am now for absolute certain.