[quote]Modi wrote:
My sticking point is similar to yours on bench. Pretty high for a raw lifter. I’d be happy to offer you advice, but I’ve been stuck for a few weeks, so I’m not going to jinx you. lol.
Keep up the good work.[/quote]
well hey…if you find something that works keep me informed…lol
Im glad to see your taking it seriously, but was your meet a certified federation of some sort or like a gym get together meet?
[quote]Pipes06 wrote:
Im glad to see your taking it seriously, but was your meet a certified federation of some sort or like a gym get together meet?[/quote]
i’m trying to…and it was APC… where do you compete
[quote]agr117 wrote:
Modi wrote:
My sticking point is similar to yours on bench. Pretty high for a raw lifter. I’d be happy to offer you advice, but I’ve been stuck for a few weeks, so I’m not going to jinx you. lol.
Keep up the good work.
well hey…if you find something that works keep me informed…lol[/quote]
Seriously, find your weaknesses and attack them. Figure out what causes you to miss a lift.
For the squat, is it weak glutes, weak hams, inflexibility, bad form, lack of explosiveness? Where is your sticking point? Out of the hole, half way up? Are you stalling, folding over? Are you warming up properly for a max attempt? Too many reps beforehand, too few?
Same thing for the bench, weak tri’s? pecs? delts? Are your lats strong enough to stabilize the weights you are trying to lift? Do you get stuck right off your chest, half way up, or a little higher (yes)? …
Your deadlift looked too smooth to notice any issues. But at heavier weights what is the issue going to be? Similar to squats…glutes, hams? Flexibility? Upper back? Lower back? Grip strength? Can you break the weight from the ground? Do you stall below your knees or just at lockout? …
Sub max attempts always look good, it’s not until you approach a true max that your form breaks down. When this happens, the trick is to figure out what caused the breakdown. Strengthen the weakness, and your whole lift will go up. That is the purpose of accessory work.
If I were you I’d work on close grip presses, pin presses, some 3-4 board presses, band presses. Most people will tell you that you don’t need 3-4 board if you are raw, but you don’t have the same sticking point as most people. You are sticking where a shirted lifter normally sticks, so you would get the same benefit from a few weeks of hitting those lifts as they would. Address your lockout from just below and just above your sticking point, and you will bring up your lift.
thanks for that…
[quote]agr117 wrote:
thanks for that…[/quote]
Anytime…hope it helps.
[quote]Modi wrote:
Most people will tell you that you don’t need 3-4 board if you are raw, but you don’t have the same sticking point as most people. You are sticking where a shirted lifter normally sticks, so you would get the same benefit from a few weeks of hitting those lifts as they would. Address your lockout from just below and just above your sticking point, and you will bring up your lift.[/quote]
Yeah, but I don’t think that was a true sticking point. As others have mentioned, it looks like he would have grinded it out had the refs not stepped in.
The reason why raw lifters shouldn’t focus on 3 and especially 4 board presses is because while it will strengthen the top part of the lift it won’t strengthen the bottom. And so you will become strong at the top, but then when you up the weight for a full range bench you find you can’t even get it off your chest to the range where you gained all that strength.
Not saying board presses aren’t useful, but I made the mistake of relying on top end lockout work WAY too much my last cycle and my bench didn’t go as far as it should have.
[quote]TravisCS84 wrote:
Modi wrote:
Most people will tell you that you don’t need 3-4 board if you are raw, but you don’t have the same sticking point as most people. You are sticking where a shirted lifter normally sticks, so you would get the same benefit from a few weeks of hitting those lifts as they would. Address your lockout from just below and just above your sticking point, and you will bring up your lift.
Yeah, but I don’t think that was a true sticking point. As others have mentioned, it looks like he would have grinded it out had the refs not stepped in.
The reason why raw lifters shouldn’t focus on 3 and especially 4 board presses is because while it will strengthen the top part of the lift it won’t strengthen the bottom. And so you will become strong at the top, but then when you up the weight for a full range bench you find you can’t even get it off your chest to the range where you gained all that strength.
Not saying board presses aren’t useful, but I made the mistake of relying on top end lockout work WAY too much my last cycle and my bench didn’t go as far as it should have.
[/quote]
That’s fine, but I disagree. That’s where he was slowing, so regardless of whether or not they took it away from him, it was at or near his sticking point.
The other thing is that I am recommending a 3-4 week cycle of something to work on lockout strength. I disagree with the thinking that he shouldn’t strengthen the top. I he works on that range, his whole lift will come up.
I agree that in general, 3-4 board pressing isn’t ideal for raw lifters, but in this case, I think it’s worth a shot.
I have that same sticking point in my bench. I have been wonder if the cause is related to decelerating the bar near the top. I can usually get it off my chest pretty quick, but I am starting to think that I slow the bar down near the completion of the lift. The reason I think this is because sometime the bar will stop near the top, but I am able to recover and push through.
Regardless, I agree with Modi. Top end work will help even it just helps to teach more explosiveness in the range.
I competed USAPL. I met a guy at my last competition who actually owns a big ass gym out in Egg Harbor Township. I know he has little meets with people who are into the same stuff as us and i know in January he holds a big meet annually.
www.oceansidesj.com…check that site and look at his creds and his facility. i trained with him a couple times since june and this guy is no joke…if you want to get really serious check this guy out.
But one off subject, haha. Do you know anyone with the last name Dolente?
You took a 20# jump going into your third and it was just too much for you that day. That is almost 10% and is pretty ambitious at your experience level.
The ref did you a favor by calling it once it dropped instead of letting you expend a bunch of energy and maybe finishing the lift but having it turned down on technicality.
All this talk about strengths/weaknesses is entretaining but without being a dick you are benching 235. Quit obsessing about your sticking point and just keep getting stronger…everywhere.
You are always going to fail somewhere.
[quote]apwsearch wrote:
You took a 20# jump going into your third and it was just too much for you that day. That is almost 10% and is pretty ambitious at your experience level.
The ref did you a favor by calling it once it dropped instead of letting you expend a bunch of energy and maybe finishing the lift but having it turned down on technicality.
All this talk about strengths/weaknesses is entretaining but without being a dick you are benching 235. Quit obsessing about your sticking point and just keep getting stronger…everywhere.
You are always going to fail somewhere.[/quote]
But take into notice this was his first meet and how can he push more weight if hes stuck all the time at that one spot because he cant adequately train that part?
[quote]Pipes06 wrote:
But take into notice this was his first meet and how can he push more weight if hes stuck all the time at that one spot because he cant adequately train that part?[/quote]
I don’t even understand what the fuck you just said.
He can push more weight by getting stronger so that he fails at the same spot with more weight.
At his strength level, rather than chasing his tail around over his sticking point he just needs to keep getting stronger and it will take care of himself.
In otherwords, who gives a fuck if you stick at the same spot for the rest of your life as long as it is with a progressively heavier weight.
He is not advanced enough to get all worked up trying to diagnose why he is failing at that point. In particular in a full meet where he took almost a 10% jump into his third. If you have ever done a meet you would understand that there are a whole host of other contributing factors to your performance on that day.
He needs to just keep training and getting stronger and not worrying about trivial shit.
Thanks for all the advice so far from everyone…
ok…now first…that is my stick point…and i probably wouldn’t have ground it out…usually when i get stuck there it doesn’t go…
the refs did do me a favor by calling it…the left arm did drop thus making it a failed attempt.
apwsearch you are correct in you assesment…i do DEFINATELY need to just get stronger…and i do need more experience…10% is alot to go up on the third attempt? that’s the type of info and experience i’m trying to get with threads like this…plus…how do you get experience without doing it and going to meets…
at what strength level am i allowed to worry about where my sticking point is?
i do plan on incorporating some lockout strength work…i don’t plan at all on making it my only focus since i am NOT a shirted bencher…b/c as APWSEARCH so aptly noticed i only benched 235…i need to get overall stronger through the whole ROM…
pipes…thanks for that info…
and i think i knew a carl dolente…i think i played tennis and hockey with him…if its the guy i’m thinking of
[quote]apwsearch wrote:
Pipes06 wrote:
But take into notice this was his first meet and how can he push more weight if hes stuck all the time at that one spot because he cant adequately train that part?
I don’t even understand what the fuck you just said.
He can push more weight by getting stronger so that he fails at the same spot with more weight.
At his strength level, rather than chasing his tail around over his sticking point he just needs to keep getting stronger and it will take care of himself.
In otherwords, who gives a fuck if you stick at the same spot for the rest of your life as long as it is with a progressively heavier weight.
He is not advanced enough to get all worked up trying to diagnose why he is failing at that point. In particular in a full meet where he took almost a 10% jump into his third. If you have ever done a meet you would understand that there are a whole host of other contributing factors to your performance on that day.
He needs to just keep training and getting stronger and not worrying about trivial shit.
[/quote]
APW, No one is suggesting that he shouldn’t get stronger all over. I think that is everyone’s goal. But if his tri’s are his weakness, working them will bring his lift up quicker, which is also everyone’s goal. Obviously everyone is going to have a sticking point, that’s common sense.
I have to agree with the 10% jump though. Just too much of a jump at any level.
[quote]agr117 wrote:
Thanks for all the advice so far from everyone…
ok…now first…that is my stick point…and i probably wouldn’t have ground it out…usually when i get stuck there it doesn’t go…
the refs did do me a favor by calling it…the left arm did drop thus making it a failed attempt.
apwsearch you are correct in you assesment…i do DEFINATELY need to just get stronger…and i do need more experience…10% is alot to go up on the third attempt? that’s the type of info and experience i’m trying to get with threads like this…plus…how do you get experience without doing it and going to meets…
at what strength level am i allowed to worry about where my sticking point is?
i do plan on incorporating some lockout strength work…i don’t plan at all on making it my only focus since i am NOT a shirted bencher…b/c as APWSEARCH so aptly noticed i only benched 235…i need to get overall stronger through the whole ROM…
pipes…thanks for that info…
and i think i knew a carl dolente…i think i played tennis and hockey with him…if its the guy i’m thinking of
[/quote]
It is not an issue of when you are allowed. You should always choose your accesory work wisely.
The fact that you stated you intend to do some lock out work but not make it your only focus shows you are basically getting the point. If you think your triceps are holding you back add in some additional volume for them. I will state that I would probably evaluate your upper back and lat strength, as well.
Sometimes in these threads where the shift in dialogue is made to ‘training your weaknesses’ I think simple things such as just putting on more muscle and gaining weight, or hitting the gym consistently and working hard, are deemphasized to the tune of a whole bunch of accesory movements or speed work when the answer is probably more akin to increased efficiency/skill in the core movements and adding and/or decreasing some volume here and there.
Congrats on your first meet. You are right that experience is the greatest teacher. Let us know when you are preparing for your next one.
[quote]apwsearch wrote:
It is not an issue of when you are allowed. You should always choose your accesory work wisely.
The fact that you stated you intend to do some lock out work but not make it your only focus shows you are basically getting the point. If you think your triceps are holding you back add in some additional volume for them. I will state that I would probably evaluate your upper back and lat strength, as well.
Sometimes in these threads where the shift in dialogue is made to ‘training your weaknesses’ I think simple things such as just putting on more muscle and gaining weight, or hitting the gym consistently and working hard, are deemphasized to the tune of a whole bunch of accesory movements or speed work when the answer is probably more akin to increased efficiency/skill in the core movements and adding and/or decreasing some volume here and there.
Congrats on your first meet. You are right that experience is the greatest teacher. Let us know when you are preparing for your next one.
[/quote]
thanks…and i agree with you completely…and i don’t think anyone was really saying to ignore everything else and just focus on lockout…
as far as back strength goes…i think i’m pretty decent in that area…nothing crazy…BW + 80 x 6 chins…235 x 6 BB rows 120 x 12 DB rows…
one thing thats always confused me is the use of the lats in benching…are they supposed to play a passive or an active role…
thanks
[quote]agr117 wrote:
apwsearch wrote:
It is not an issue of when you are allowed. You should always choose your accesory work wisely.
The fact that you stated you intend to do some lock out work but not make it your only focus shows you are basically getting the point. If you think your triceps are holding you back add in some additional volume for them. I will state that I would probably evaluate your upper back and lat strength, as well.
Sometimes in these threads where the shift in dialogue is made to ‘training your weaknesses’ I think simple things such as just putting on more muscle and gaining weight, or hitting the gym consistently and working hard, are deemphasized to the tune of a whole bunch of accesory movements or speed work when the answer is probably more akin to increased efficiency/skill in the core movements and adding and/or decreasing some volume here and there.
Congrats on your first meet. You are right that experience is the greatest teacher. Let us know when you are preparing for your next one.
thanks…and i agree with you completely…and i don’t think anyone was really saying to ignore everything else and just focus on lockout…
as far as back strength goes…i think i’m pretty decent in that area…nothing crazy…BW + 80 x 6 chins…235 x 6 BB rows 120 x 12 DB rows…
one thing thats always confused me is the use of the lats in benching…are they supposed to play a passive or an active role…
thanks[/quote]
Your lats should be flared hard. Try to bend the bar and you’ll feel your lats kick in. Like you’re trying to supinate your wrists and “screw” your upper arm into your armpit.
Do you train by yourself or do you have a crew/team/training partner or something?
[quote]conorh wrote:
agr117 wrote:
apwsearch wrote:
It is not an issue of when you are allowed. You should always choose your accesory work wisely.
The fact that you stated you intend to do some lock out work but not make it your only focus shows you are basically getting the point. If you think your triceps are holding you back add in some additional volume for them. I will state that I would probably evaluate your upper back and lat strength, as well.
Sometimes in these threads where the shift in dialogue is made to ‘training your weaknesses’ I think simple things such as just putting on more muscle and gaining weight, or hitting the gym consistently and working hard, are deemphasized to the tune of a whole bunch of accesory movements or speed work when the answer is probably more akin to increased efficiency/skill in the core movements and adding and/or decreasing some volume here and there.
Congrats on your first meet. You are right that experience is the greatest teacher. Let us know when you are preparing for your next one.
thanks…and i agree with you completely…and i don’t think anyone was really saying to ignore everything else and just focus on lockout…
as far as back strength goes…i think i’m pretty decent in that area…nothing crazy…BW + 80 x 6 chins…235 x 6 BB rows 120 x 12 DB rows…
one thing thats always confused me is the use of the lats in benching…are they supposed to play a passive or an active role…
thanks
Your lats should be flared hard. Try to bend the bar and you’ll feel your lats kick in. Like you’re trying to supinate your wrists and “screw” your upper arm into your armpit.
Do you train by yourself or do you have a crew/team/training partner or something?[/quote]
nah i’m by myself…wish i had a crew…
and thanks i’ll try that out…and just to further explain myself…i’ve always had trouble flaring my lats while keeping my shoulder and scapula tight…