Frustrated With My Bench

Training Bodybuilding
1

Right.

I have been training a long time, 14 years and what i would call serious upto maybe 6-7.

I have a decent amount of muscle mass for what was once a very skinny (but lean/muscular) frame.

I currently weigh 180bs at 14% and i am 5’8" (with Brown Hair).

My strength is decent for my size and the fact i concentrate on Muscle rather than strength, but my bench frustrates the fuck out of me. I will try not to miss anything when explaining my technique.

I am stuck on 225lbs. for some reason that elusive 2 plates a side is beyond me. dont get me wrong, i have lifted her, but i cant without a spotter (usually train alone) and it is a real, real struggle. Ass slightly comes up off bench. (as it does in floor press).

I have built upto (gotta use KGS) 90kgs for 3 reps, i can do 100kg (225lbs) for a rep, but do not quite touch chest and need a spotter mentally.
I have used floor presses to try and get sticking point strength up and have managed 102.5kgs for 1. No spot. arse off floor.
I am increasing my DB presses, with the flat at 40kgs for 5-6. That tells me i am ready for fucks sake!

My technique/set-up:- I have 4 or so minutes rest before this max lift. i am warm. I am psyched up. I lie on bench and put my hands on bar, i align my eyes under the bar then slightly above it (i like a straight lift to begin). I have my back and arse on the bench with my feet wide and flat on the floor, my lumbar spine is arched. I apply pressure through my feet and am stable.

I retract my shoulders and flex my lats to depress my shoulder girdle to give a solid base, and to make sure the shoulders are out of the lift as much as possible.

What can i do to achieve this goal of 225 for reps - i mean, i’d settle for 3 solid, full, to the chest reps! I know this isnt going to happen overnight but let me explain, i have been around this point for the past 2-2.5 years! Yeah! Squat is fine, progressing to 2x bodyweight, deadlift is beyond that, military press is about 1.25 bodyweight.
I am going to add heavy smith work. i got the floor presses, DB’s, and max lifts, pyramided up.

I would appreciate comments on what you think may work, why this particular lift is behind on my list, what you think about the floor press and smith chosen to help correct this, and my form.
(actually writing this has helped, i have a strength problem and that is solved by strength training directly, no?)

Answers on a postcard please.

Joe

2

You really need a spotter consistently. You can’t go all out for max effort without one and you need to do that to get stronger. Also, what are you doing for warm up? I ask because I remember when I finally broke 225 for one rep it had to do with my warmup. I was doing a set of 25 pushups then barbell warm up and then trying 225 and missing it. A friend of mine told me to nix the pushups hit a few reps with lighter weight and bam I nailed the 225. I was burning myself out on the warm up.

D

3

[quote]Dedicated wrote:
You really need a spotter consistently. You can’t go all out for max effort without one and you need to do that to get stronger. Also, what are you doing for warm up? I ask because I remember when I finally broke 225 for one rep it had to do with my warmup. I was doing a set of 25 pushups then barbell warm up and then trying 225 and missing it. A friend of mine told me to nix the pushups hit a few reps with lighter weight and bam I nailed the 225. I was burning myself out on the warm up.

D[/quote]

For when i try a max effort, i do:

barx5 easy
50kgx5 easy
60kgx3 easy
70kgx2 easy
85kgx1 easy for 1
100kg (225lbs)

I enjoy using a spotter, but honestly i rarely come across people that have the consistency. I know there are people (hundreds here!) but alot of the consistent lifters already have spotters… sniff…

I do OK. I ask if i need one, and i use smith and rest/pause alot along with partials for chest exercises to simulate the intensity one gets from forced reps. The last spotter i used didnt even have to touch the bar (i told him not to), i lifted the max fine! Thats partly the problem, confidence with that weight. I deliberately dont put on 2 plates a side and use a mix of smaller plates to add up to 225lbs so as not to bottle it in my mind.

Its weird, something about it, just gets me.
I do heavy supports for squats and find they help to make heavy weight feel lighter, can i do the same for bench?

Joe

4

Personally I think the 4 min rest is part of it. It’s too long. Also, I would ramp your weights with less reps. After the 50kgx5 (you might consider 2 sets here) only do 1 rep for 60,70, and 85. Leave a little more gas.

And I would only give yourself 1 min between those singles. You say they are easy, so just do it. I think your body will respond better and with only a minute between the 85kg and the 100kg your brain won’t get in the way during the 4 min rest you’re giving yourself.

cueball

5

From what I’ve read you seem like a very knowledgable guy so i’m not gonna tell you all the beginner stuff you probably know. lol But how strong are your triceps? I have people ask me all the time what my bench is because I have a fairly large chest for my frame. I was at a point where I was still strong, maxing at 275 but compared to my other lifts I was very weak. I had wondered wtf why is my chest huge and I’m weak in that area yet my legs were lagging size wize and I could squat like hell.

My back is not huge but not small yet it is surprisingly strong as well. Then I thought about it and realized my tricep size/strength could undergo a lot of improvement. Once I started training Tricpes for strength with weighted dips, etc my max went up to 305 in a matter of a few months. So maybe that can help your problem.

oh yeah and “I currently weigh 180bs at 14% and i am 5’8” (with Brown Hair). " does brown hair make you stronger? lol If it does lemme know and I’ll go out and dye it. :stuck_out_tongue: lol jk

hope this helps Joe

Gerdy

6

[quote]cueball wrote:
Personally I think the 4 min rest is part of it. It’s too long. Also, I would ramp your weights with less reps. After the 50kgx5 (you might consider 2 sets here) only do 1 rep for 60,70, and 85. Leave a little more gas.

And I would only give yourself 1 min between those singles. You say they are easy, so just do it. I think your body will respond better and with only a minute between the 85kg and the 100kg your brain won’t get in the way during the 4 min rest you’re giving yourself.

cueball[/quote]

Sorry, i didnt put it right. between the warm up sets it is probably 1 min rest, 90sec. The 4mins is just before the max, but i will try doing a little less volume on the warm up, and have less rest before the max to see if that helps.

Don’t get me wrong, i’m not a neurotic mess about it., i just can feel a little held back by it, like a “here we are again…” as i have battled with this current plateau for years now. I just have a feeling that slight apprehension could be the main factor holding me back.

Joe

7

[quote]Dirty Gerdy wrote:
From what I’ve read you seem like a very knowledgable guy so i’m not gonna tell you all the beginner stuff you probably know. lol But how strong are your triceps? I have people ask me all the time what my bench is because I have a fairly large chest for my frame. I was at a point where I was still strong, maxing at 275 but compared to my other lifts I was very weak. I had wondered wtf why is my chest huge and I’m weak in that area yet my legs were lagging size wize and I could squat like hell.

My back is not huge but not small yet it is surprisingly strong as well. Then I thought about it and realized my tricep size/strength could undergo a lot of improvement. Once I started training Tricpes for strength with weighted dips, etc my max went up to 305 in a matter of a few months. So maybe that can help your problem.

oh yeah and “I currently weigh 180bs at 14% and i am 5’8” (with Brown Hair). " does brown hair make you stronger? lol If it does lemme know and I’ll go out and dye it. :stuck_out_tongue: lol jk

hope this helps Joe

Gerdy[/quote]

Hi mate, thanks.

That is a good point, and one i forgot to mention.
From a size/hypertrophy standpoint my triceps tend to be my strongest point. They are pretty strong too. I think that may be a factor actually but just in a slightly different way than you suggested… I think my tri’s take the load in training, so my chest isnt as strong as it needs to be to assist with that max effort.

I mean, the bench is just a generally weak movement, i see kids half my size literally, and they are not far off my loads, and tall heavier guys with less muscularity that do 3 plates.
I know it aint all about muscle, but 3 plates??!! give me 2!

Thats why i wondered about my form too… is there something am missing? or should i cheat a little? bring the shoulders forward or something?

As for the triceps, how close should your close bench strength be to standard?

ALSO… something i forgot, my grip width is wide, hands outside of wide rings.

Joe

8

[quote]Joe Brook wrote:
cueball wrote:
Personally I think the 4 min rest is part of it. It’s too long. Also, I would ramp your weights with less reps. After the 50kgx5 (you might consider 2 sets here) only do 1 rep for 60,70, and 85. Leave a little more gas.

And I would only give yourself 1 min between those singles. You say they are easy, so just do it. I think your body will respond better and with only a minute between the 85kg and the 100kg your brain won’t get in the way during the 4 min rest you’re giving yourself.

cueball

Sorry, i didnt put it right. between the warm up sets it is probably 1 min rest, 90sec. The 4mins is just before the max, but i will try doing a little less volume on the warm up, and have less rest before the max to see if that helps.

Don’t get me wrong, i’m not a neurotic mess about it., i just can feel a little held back by it, like a “here we are again…” as i have battled with this current plateau for years now. I just have a feeling that slight apprehension could be the main factor holding me back.

Joe[/quote]

No, I was following you. The 4 mins before the max is what I’m talking about. It’s too long. Your body’s lost its priming by then and your head gets to thinking too much.

Throw that 85kg up (you said it’s easy), hop up, change your weight, grunt a few times then lay down. Just before you lay down, picture yourself slamming the weight up. And then when you DO lay down, don’t fuck off. Do it quick with determination and get it done.

cueball

9

[quote]Joe Brook wrote:

ALSO… something i forgot, my grip width is wide, hands outside of wide rings.

Joe[/quote]

This is a BIG key here. I’m tricep dominant too. My close grip is about 80-85% of my bench. I have my bench grip 2 fingers INSIDE the rings. Any farther out and I lose strength. Bring it in and I bet you’ll hit it no problem.

cueball

10

Are you flaring your elbows? Probably with as wide a grip as you have. Pulling them in to your torso will help too.

cueball

11

I think part in parcel might be your confidence and fear. Your afraid you might miss the rep and either get stuck or just unsure of yourself. Take away those fears.

Move a bench into the power rack, beat the crap out of your chest/tris using higher weight without the fear of losing it. Do it for a few weeks then cut between the middle of what you used in the power rack and what you used to use and then use that back at the old bench.

I am primarily a soloist when I lift so sometimes I get nervous that I will miss the lift, but then I get in, push and suprise myself.

I mean what does a spotter really do? He is your safety net so you can focus on the lift.

12

Ok, ok and ok. Good stuff cueball
(shaved head by any chance?!)

As for the elbows, i press low on the chest, so i kinda press like you would with a slight decline, so the elbows do come in a little in comparison to how they flare when lowering to mid/low chest.

Thanks. I will get to the set quicker and i will move grip in slightly. When i get 2 reps on my own, full - to the chest, i know its mine forever!

Joe

13

[quote]yasser wrote:
I think part in parcel might be your confidence and fear. Your afraid you might miss the rep and either get stuck or just unsure of yourself. Take away those fears.
Move a bench into the power rack, beat the crap out of your chest/tris using higher weight without the fear of losing it. Do it for a few weeks then cut between the middle of what you used in the power rack and what you used to use and then use that back at the old bench.

I am primarily a soloist when I lift so sometimes I get nervous that I will miss the lift, but then I get in, push and suprise myself.

I mean what does a spotter really do? He is your safety net so you can focus on the lift.[/quote]

Good tip. I too lift alone and the rack is my gym partner. No fears inside the rack.

cueball

14

[quote]Joe Brook wrote:
Ok, ok and ok. Good stuff cueball
(shaved head by any chance?!)

As for the elbows, i press low on the chest, so i kinda press like you would with a slight decline, so the elbows do come in a little in comparison to how they flare when lowering to mid/low chest.

Thanks. I will get to the set quicker and i will move grip in slightly. When i get 2 reps on my own, full - to the chest, i know its mine forever!

Joe[/quote]

Yep. I do have a shaved head. Good luck on 225. I don’t think it’ll be long.

cueball

15

[quote]yasser wrote:
I think part in parcel might be your confidence and fear. Your afraid you might miss the rep and either get stuck or just unsure of yourself. Take away those fears.

Move a bench into the power rack, beat the crap out of your chest/tris using higher weight without the fear of losing it. Do it for a few weeks then cut between the middle of what you used in the power rack and what you used to use and then use that back at the old bench.

I am primarily a soloist when I lift so sometimes I get nervous that I will miss the lift, but then I get in, push and suprise myself.

I mean what does a spotter really do? He is your safety net so you can focus on the lift.[/quote]

Thats the shit! thanks! this is what i needed, some nice strenght tips like this!
My gym IS a decent gym with everything i need… but a power rack. I know, I know, i miss it. But it is cheap and walking distance from my house!
However i will do the pattern you suggest, in the smith.

Let me see if i understand. Smash myself up with presses for chest and tri with a higher weight than i train with regularly - say clusters or something, then return to normal after 4-5 weeks and see how i’ll life more?

16

I don’t want to state any rep/set/program schemes. Just use the rack to remove the fear. Once your head knows that you can lift X amount of weight it won’t be second guessing itself when your out on the regular bench.
Use it until your moving past your old PR and your confidence level goes up.

I am hesistant to say this will work with a Smith, but this is just my thoughts. With a smith you take out some of your supporting cast of muscles and your contorting yourself. This might not carryover exactly to the ol bench press. But that is strictly MY opinion.

In example, my dad uses a fair amount of weights on the chest press machines, move him to a bench press and it’s scary.

17

[quote]Joe Brook wrote:
yasser wrote:
I think part in parcel might be your confidence and fear. Your afraid you might miss the rep and either get stuck or just unsure of yourself. Take away those fears.

Move a bench into the power rack, beat the crap out of your chest/tris using higher weight without the fear of losing it. Do it for a few weeks then cut between the middle of what you used in the power rack and what you used to use and then use that back at the old bench.

I am primarily a soloist when I lift so sometimes I get nervous that I will miss the lift, but then I get in, push and suprise myself.

I mean what does a spotter really do? He is your safety net so you can focus on the lift.

Thats the shit! thanks! this is what i needed, some nice strenght tips like this!

My gym IS a decent gym with everything i need… but a power rack. I know, I know, i miss it. But it is cheap and walking distance from my house!
However i will do the pattern you suggest, in the smith.

Let me see if i understand. Smash myself up with presses for chest and tri with a higher weight than i train with regularly - say clusters or something, then return to normal after 4-5 weeks and see how i’ll life more?[/quote]

Yea using a power rack is a great way to bench without a spotter. Also good for exercises similar to board presses (set the pins a bit above chest, up the weight).

Another thing I noticed, which may be obvious to you, but make sure your body is well nourished before big lift days (everyday would be nice too). The feeling of the continuos “battle” may be your body telling you it needs a few days off.

I used to be stuck at 245. Frustrated the hell out of me. Took a week off. Came back “slightly” weaker and the next week put up 245 3 times. Someones you just need to deload/rest.

18

As far as how wide I place my hands I just go with whats comfortable. My close grip bench is no where near where I can bench regular. I’m not sure where I max with close grip but I think the most i’ve gone was 185 for 6 reps. Whereas regular I could do 250 or so for 6 reps. I had dominant biceps during back exercises and the only way I could cure that was to choose exercises that eliminated most of the bicep and focused all on the back. My cousin was the same way.

He starting doing heavy cable flyes and built up a little more muscle in his chest thus creating more power into his bench. I’m kinda stumped here, I’ve never had the problem so I don’t know how to strengthen just the chest without the tri’s taking over. I know form is everything when you want to strengthen the muscle itself, and in bodybuilding.

But if your lifting to just lift the damn thing then there can be some different techniques. High arch back changing angles of the shoulders. Trying to get the legs involved as much as possible. Sorry I can’t be of more help, I always strive to get stronger and bigger with emphasis on bigger but I’m not very knowledgable on some techniques of powerlifters. Hope you get it figured out.

Gerdy

19

What brought me out of my rut of bench was doing 3x4 and negatives.

20

[quote]yasser wrote:
I don’t want to state any rep/set/program schemes. Just use the rack to remove the fear. Once your head knows that you can lift X amount of weight it won’t be second guessing itself when your out on the regular bench.
Use it until your moving past your old PR and your confidence level goes up.

I am hesistant to say this will work with a Smith, but this is just my thoughts. With a smith you take out some of your supporting cast of muscles and your contorting yourself. This might not carryover exactly to the ol bench press. But that is strictly MY opinion.

In example, my dad uses a fair amount of weights on the chest press machines, move him to a bench press and it’s scary.[/quote]

Sadly right now i dont have an option… I will make sure to progress well past 225 on smith before i go back to bench - plus i will do the floor press i do (in squat rack actually!).

That should be ok. I think the difference between the chest press and bench is much more than the difference between smith and bench… but well see!

Joe