My Experience On the Anabolic Diet Part III

Nutrition
161

[quote]Braunbeck wrote:
Pauli, I wanted to add to the refeed subject. In the past I was following a Palumbo based diet and the one cheat meal a week was whatever you wanted and was the last meal of the day. The last meal concept was that people would use it for it’s purpose (refeed), but if you used it to early in the day the body/mind would want to continue to refeed/carb up for the remainder of the day and cause to much of a cheat. Also I was allowed to eat whatever I wanted within a 45 minute time frame (I believe Palumbo states 2 hour max though).

Now with that being said above, you have to rationalize the difference in diets. Palumbo was clean protein source, nuts, salad, EVOO and supplements (fish oil etc.). With the AD, you are using fattier source protein, cheese, etc… So a crazy refeed may not be necessary with the AD since you get to basically slack with the fattier protein sources during the week.

Just some input on the single meal refeed.

Later[/quote]

Oh, I agree. There are many, many considerations to ponder.

My last series of posts were directives specifically designed for P340. I would handle others differently according to their needs, goals and past experience.

And yes, you are very correct in stating that your macro sourcing makes ALL the difference in the composition, duration and timing of your re-feeds or lack thereof.

The funny thing is, Mauro DiPasquale does an excellent job of explaining all the possible permutations of this dietary strategy. Some folks (like DH) get it, see it, learn the science and understand all the variant strategies that are possible within the science and logic of DiPasquale’s findings.

Other folks end up with a more broad comprehension and never fully realize the beauty and complexity of the original work. Those are the folks who seem to have the hardest time adapting themselves to the lifestyle.

It’s not a knock. It just is.

It would be nice if (A) lead to (B) and ended in (C)…but that’s not life and that’s not the AD (or any other nutrition strategy for that matter).

Thanks for the comments.

You’re quite right!

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Hey guys,
I was going to start bulking soon and I was wondering if I should do like doctor Pasquale says and just multiply my weight by 25 and just start eating that many calories or should I ease my way up? Has anyone done either, and what was your experience?

163

I think the starting calculation is BW x 18, actually.
And even that is just a suggestion -something to get you started. You could eat less, but I wouldn’t go beyond the bw x 18 guideline…you’ll end up getting pretty fat, pretty quickly.

164

[quote]Pauli D wrote:
If you’re truly fat-adapted, you’re going to need fats and protein prior to training for energy and to stave of catabolism. After your refeed meal, you’re going to have to go by feel. You may not have much hunger -or maybe you will. But after several hours your fats need to come back up to a 55/45/* sort of split (rough numbers, of course).[/quote]

Ah ok so basically Protein + fat breakfast, train, big carb meal, then mostly protein. At least I’ll try it like that at first and If I feel I can add more carbs/fat I will. I don’t think a ton of fat right after a bunch of carbs would be great (which I think is another reason Palumbo puts it at the end of the day)

Thanks for the carb day set up, Saturday will be the first try out with it and I’ll post some thoughts on it in a few weeks. As for weekly macros I’m at 180f/320p on workout days and 90f/300p on off days. Would you just leave that as is for now? At ~14% bf it’s hard to judge weekly changes.

Edit: On a somewhat unrelated note I decided to weigh myself after 3 days at 2100 cal/90f/300p (since I’m doing a 1-week “cut” during this deload) and I’m actually up 1.5lb. from last week, thought that was strange/interesting (not looking for comments on this, just saying lol).

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@Pauli D or DH

I’ve been bulking on the AD for several months now (probably over 10+ months), and think its time to cut (currently ~16% body fat).

My first and only cut on the AD got me to about 11-12%, using a 2 day carb load. I was still able to set PR, but I stopped after 2 months, and never got leaner than that.

I was actually considering doing 1 day carb load, or even having 1 carb meal before bed on Sunday. What would be the best way to approach this. Start with a 2 day carb load, and slowly reduce it to a meal. Or, start with 1 meal carb load, and slowly increase it.

I am hoping I am able to still hit PR’s during this cut.

166

[quote]andyr wrote:
@Pauli D or DH

I’ve been bulking on the AD for several months now (probably over 10+ months), and think its time to cut (currently ~16% body fat).

My first and only cut on the AD got me to about 11-12%, using a 2 day carb load. I was still able to set PR, but I stopped after 2 months, and never got leaner than that.

I was actually considering doing 1 day carb load, or even having 1 carb meal before bed on Sunday. What would be the best way to approach this. Start with a 2 day carb load, and slowly reduce it to a meal. Or, start with 1 meal carb load, and slowly increase it.

I am hoping I am able to still hit PR’s during this cut.[/quote]

Describe your current load period. What’s it like? How long and what are you eating?

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@Pauli D

My load is actually pretty clean, and set at around 20X bodyweight.

Saturday (10 am - 10 pm)
500 g of brown rice (measured raw)
67 fl oz of whole milk
3-5 Fruits
30-50 grams assortment of nuts

Macro nutrient breakdown (~500g of carbohydrates, 120-150g of protein, 100-120g of fat)

Sunday (10 am - 6 pm)
Repeat of above

When I’ve cut on the AD, it generally was higher protein on weekdays, and about half that amount of whole milk and nuts, set at about 12X bodyweight. Hope that helps.

168

Im just reading through the first and second ENORMOUS threads and its fascinating. I think this is the eating plan I will be following next.

Recently come off the V-diet. Big time fatty and currently down to about 210lbs @ 23% bf but i dont have much faith in that measurement. Probably higher.

I want to lose bf and keep all the lean mass i have while doing so. If not then gaining a few lbs of lbm would be awesome.

As cutting is my priority, i think the 18x bodyweight starting point is a bit high. I saw a suggestion in the original thread that said starting at 12x was a good base. Also thinking that a 24 hour load would be best for me as my body really does not tolerate carbs well. What do you guys think? Sound ok?

Thanks guys.

169

[quote]Balddog wrote:
Im just reading through the first and second ENORMOUS threads and its fascinating. I think this is the eating plan I will be following next.

Recently come off the V-diet. Big time fatty and currently down to about 210lbs @ 23% bf but i dont have much faith in that measurement. Probably higher.

I want to lose bf and keep all the lean mass i have while doing so. If not then gaining a few lbs of lbm would be awesome.

As cutting is my priority, i think the 18x bodyweight starting point is a bit high. I saw a suggestion in the original thread that said starting at 12x was a good base. Also thinking that a 24 hour load would be best for me as my body really does not tolerate carbs well. What do you guys think? Sound ok?

Thanks guys.[/quote]

Honestly, if you are that hefty I would not start with an entire weekend or even day of carb loading a la the Anabolic Diet; one meal on Sunday night is probably a better place for you to start. I think that calorie counting is not the best way to go, as it simply leads to neurosis on the part of the practitioner. I would say get about 1.5 grams of lean protein per pound of bodyweight (a little more or little less won’t kill you) in meals spread throughout the day, and add about a tablespoon of olive oil (or another equivalent fat source) to each meal. Go ahead and load up on fibrous vegetables and make sure you’re taking some fish oil as well.

Evaluate your progress in various ways: the scale, how your clothes fit, how you feel, etc. These should all be monitored. Don’t rely solely on the scale.

Best,
Henry

170

[quote]Henry Krinkle wrote:

Honestly, if you are that hefty I would not start with an entire weekend or even day of carb loading a la the Anabolic Diet; one meal on Sunday night is probably a better place for you to start. I think that calorie counting is not the best way to go, as it simply leads to neurosis on the part of the practitioner. I would say get about 1.5 grams of lean protein per pound of bodyweight (a little more or little less won’t kill you) in meals spread throughout the day, and add about a tablespoon of olive oil (or another equivalent fat source) to each meal. Go ahead and load up on fibrous vegetables and make sure you’re taking some fish oil as well.

Evaluate your progress in various ways: the scale, how your clothes fit, how you feel, etc. These should all be monitored. Don’t rely solely on the scale.

Best,
Henry [/quote]

There seem to be a few bigger guys in the other threads that had great success with AD. As i said in my post, i wont be doing a full on whole weekend carb up, id start with 24 hours and see how it went. Itd also be a very clean carb up.

Im not the neurotic kind and have been monitoring calories extremely carefully over the past 6 months or so with no issues. I think i will do well on the AD, id just like someone to check and see if 12x is a good kick off point.

Thanks for your reply.

171

Hi guys, simple question.

Is the two week “Maintenance Phase” part of the “Start up Phase” mentioned in the book?

Thanks!

172

[quote]Forkit wrote:
Hi guys, simple question.

Is the two week “Maintenance Phase” part of the “Start up Phase” mentioned in the book?

Thanks![/quote]

Yup!

173

Guys,

Will 5g leucine inbetween the 5 meals I’m taking in whilst on the AD, negatively affect fat loss?

Since dropping my protein and increasing fats, I have become a LITTLE paranoid of losing muscle.

Thanks,
GJ

174

1 week in with 1-meal carb up and BBB. Added calories on workout days, I was up 2lb by mid week and now after going to the bathroom this morning I’m a little lighter than last week with waist line up. Slightly less definition :frowning:

175

You’re eating too much.
Cut your calories and reassess.

176

[quote]Gymjunkie wrote:
Guys,

Will 5g leucine inbetween the 5 meals I’m taking in whilst on the AD, negatively affect fat loss?

Since dropping my protein and increasing fats, I have become a LITTLE paranoid of losing muscle.

Thanks,
GJ[/quote]

Leucine won’t likely affect weight loss as much as the total volume of food you’re taking in will. As long as you follow the basic guidelines of the AD, you have nothing to fret about as far as muscle loss. It just won’t occur.

177

[quote]Pauli D wrote:
Gymjunkie wrote:
Guys,

Will 5g leucine inbetween the 5 meals I’m taking in whilst on the AD, negatively affect fat loss?

Since dropping my protein and increasing fats, I have become a LITTLE paranoid of losing muscle.

Thanks,
GJ

Leucine won’t likely affect weight loss as much as the total volume of food you’re taking in will. As long as you follow the basic guidelines of the AD, you have nothing to fret about as far as muscle loss. It just won’t occur. [/quote]

Thanks Pauli,

After switching to more fats and less protein(55/45), more along the lines of Dr M’s initial reco, my supriliac is finally dropping after trying countless protocols and trainind regimes. I am almost certain that over the past 1year my protein intake was far too high in comparison to my fat intake and thus fat loss VERY slow(Burning the walls of the house to heat it concept I guess).

This coming week, I am changing macros to 60/40-fats/pro and see how my body reacts. This, whilst keeping intake the same(12xlbs) and maybe adding some work. Currently doing a GBC that leaves me unable to even think for a little while afterward, haha…NEED to get down to 7-8% in the next 6 weeks…currently @ 10.4%

Thanks,
GJ

178

Do some of you guys get diarrhea from high fat intakes? I seem to experience this kind off “side effect”, might be linked to something different though.

179

[quote]Pauli D wrote:
You’re eating too much.
Cut your calories and reassess.[/quote]

How so exactly? I lost weight overall compared to last week.

If I should drop calories what would you change? I’m only eating 2100 on off days and 3100 on workout days and haven’t gained weight

Thanks

[quote]Gymjunkie wrote:
Pauli D wrote:
Gymjunkie wrote:
Guys,

Will 5g leucine inbetween the 5 meals I’m taking in whilst on the AD, negatively affect fat loss?

Since dropping my protein and increasing fats, I have become a LITTLE paranoid of losing muscle.

Thanks,
GJ

Leucine won’t likely affect weight loss as much as the total volume of food you’re taking in will. As long as you follow the basic guidelines of the AD, you have nothing to fret about as far as muscle loss. It just won’t occur.

Thanks Pauli,

After switching to more fats and less protein(55/45), more along the lines of Dr M’s initial reco, my supriliac is finally dropping after trying countless protocols and trainind regimes. I am almost certain that over the past 1year my protein intake was far too high in comparison to my fat intake and thus fat loss VERY slow(Burning the walls of the house to heat it concept I guess).

This coming week, I am changing macros to 60/40-fats/pro and see how my body reacts. This, whilst keeping intake the same(12xlbs) and maybe adding some work. Currently doing a GBC that leaves me unable to even think for a little while afterward, haha…NEED to get down to 7-8% in the next 6 weeks…currently @ 10.4%

Thanks,
GJ[/quote]

Thats interesting so you experienced better results when lowering protein and increasing fat? What were your ratios and grams of each before and what are they now with the better results?

Pauli my diet is 295p/90-95f on off days and 320p/180f on workout days (not including carb up of course). Do you think it’s possible protein could be too high? It’s just about 2g/lb or so.

Initially I seemed to get slightly better results when switching to higher protein and lower fat but I really don’t know. Figured more fat would just lead to more fat gain since I was already gaining significant fat with what I’ve been doing

180

Hey Pumped,

My current ratios are 45% protein and 55% fats. I have ALWAYS thought that higher protein was the key and never believed that this was slowing my fat loss down. There is SO much information out there and you tend to believer everything you read, until you experiment yourself. I have always followed Thibs reco of about 1.75g/lb pro and 0.5g/lb fats when trying to get lean, but stalled so after reading into it more, gave the above a try and things are moving again!

IF your goal is fat loss, I would say use more of a 50/50 or even 45/55 mix and drop intake a bit. I too had my intake at about 2g/lb BUT my fats were fat too low in comparison and I was burning protein for fuel. Unless you utilising the protein and fats you are taking in, you MAY store the left over as fat.

Listen to Pauli and drop your intake…make sure you training is in check. Just have one cheat meal a week.

GJ