I actually have advocated very short loads under specific cirucumstances. Probably in one of my posts here and there. Maybe in PM’s.
Faigin’s NHE, which I mention from time to time, is based around two meals weekly. Very similar to Vince Gironda’s scheme.
DH
[quote]DH wrote:
I actually have advocated very short loads under specific cirucumstances. Probably in one of my posts here and there. Maybe in PM’s.
Faigin’s NHE, which I mention from time to time, is based around two meals weekly. Very similar to Vince Gironda’s scheme.
DH
[/quote]
Until you can’t eat anymore?
I just don’t understand how one meal of 300-400g of carbs would be better than that 300-400g spread across the day. Sure for someone who doesn’t count on the loads and just stuffs their face all day then obviously going from all day to just one meal would make it more controlled, but if your doing a controlled amount of carbs, as I am, I don’t understand why it would be better to shove that all down in one meal. I’m really interested in an explanation to that if anyone feels like explaining it.
I’m afraid you may be missing the point.
There was no recommendation for a specific carb-count.
Questions:
In your past experience, do you feel a ‘pump’ during your loads?
If so, when (first hour, last hour, somewhere in the middle of the first day etc…)?
What muscle group(s)?
What were you eating at the time of that sensation?
Or, how long did the sensation last?
We’ll get you straightened out yet…
:^)
Hey Pauli, jelly beans and oatmeal give me an arm pump!
Just wanted to share that there nugget. ;0
DH
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
DH wrote:
I actually have advocated very short loads under specific cirucumstances. Probably in one of my posts here and there. Maybe in PM’s.
Faigin’s NHE, which I mention from time to time, is based around two meals weekly. Very similar to Vince Gironda’s scheme.
DH
Until you can’t eat anymore?
I just don’t understand how one meal of 300-400g of carbs would be better than that 300-400g spread across the day. Sure for someone who doesn’t count on the loads and just stuffs their face all day then obviously going from all day to just one meal would make it more controlled, but if your doing a controlled amount of carbs, as I am, I don’t understand why it would be better to shove that all down in one meal. I’m really interested in an explanation to that if anyone feels like explaining it. [/quote]
Greetings friend,
I have followed NHE in the past, and at a bodyweight of approximately 195 pounds, I would eat about 250 grams of carbs in one sitting, for the last meal of the day (I like brown rice for this meal). The rationale for eating this all at once would be to minimize the number of insulin spikes needed for a load.
Trust me, this plan works. I got leaner than I’ve ever been on this plan, and I continued to set personal bests on all my primary lifts. So long as your fats are reasonably high, you won’t lack energy.
Best,
Henry
Hey Guys,
I tried to post on this thread but i guess I did it wrong the first time. Anyway, I’ve been on AD for about 3 months so far and I love it. I know I still have a way to go before I have it customized for myself but I learn more every day. That being said I’m confused on the whole lettuce broccoli thing. Can I or can I not eat as much of these I want and not count the carbs or calories. Four heads of lettuce and 4 bags of broccoli would not change my macros at all. Why? and why does Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale talk about subtracting fiber if you don’t count these at all?
[quote]Pauli D wrote:
I’m afraid you may be missing the point.
There was no recommendation for a specific carb-count.
Questions:
In your past experience, do you feel a ‘pump’ during your loads?
If so, when (first hour, last hour, somewhere in the middle of the first day etc…)?
What muscle group(s)?
What were you eating at the time of that sensation?
Or, how long did the sensation last?
We’ll get you straightened out yet…
:^) [/quote]
What I mean about the carb count is that let’s just say I know I’m going to eat 300g in one sitting in my load. Why would it not be better to spread that out over the day? What benefits would there be to shoving it in in one binge meal?
Also what would I eat for the rest of the day then and would the huge meal be before or after my morning workout?
Thanks
Oh, as for the pump, I never really get these crazy carb up pumps a lot of people talk about. I’m not that big so maybe that’s why? Today’s workout gave me a pretty good pump (day after carb up) but on the carb ups I wouldn’t say I notice much more than normal.
[quote]Henry Krinkle wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
DH wrote:
I actually have advocated very short loads under specific cirucumstances. Probably in one of my posts here and there. Maybe in PM’s.
Faigin’s NHE, which I mention from time to time, is based around two meals weekly. Very similar to Vince Gironda’s scheme.
DH
Until you can’t eat anymore?
I just don’t understand how one meal of 300-400g of carbs would be better than that 300-400g spread across the day. Sure for someone who doesn’t count on the loads and just stuffs their face all day then obviously going from all day to just one meal would make it more controlled, but if your doing a controlled amount of carbs, as I am, I don’t understand why it would be better to shove that all down in one meal. I’m really interested in an explanation to that if anyone feels like explaining it.
Greetings friend,
I have followed NHE in the past, and at a bodyweight of approximately 195 pounds, I would eat about 250 grams of carbs in one sitting, for the last meal of the day (I like brown rice for this meal). The rationale for eating this all at once would be to minimize the number of insulin spikes needed for a load.
Trust me, this plan works. I got leaner than I’ve ever been on this plan, and I continued to set personal bests on all my primary lifts. So long as your fats are reasonably high, you won’t lack energy.
Best,
Henry
[/quote]
Would you do this the night before lifting? If so, would you do it every night before lifting the following day?
Yes and no. I lift on a MT ThF schedule, so I would load on Sundays and Wednesdays. I’ve even had success without the Wednesday load (i.e. just have one carb meal per week). It will take a week or so to adjust, but once you’ve gone through the initial struggles you’ll feel great.
Indeed.
DH
[quote]Henry Krinkle wrote:
Yes and no. I lift on a MT ThF schedule, so I would load on Sundays and Wednesdays. I’ve even had success without the Wednesday load (i.e. just have one carb meal per week). It will take a week or so to adjust, but once you’ve gone through the initial struggles you’ll feel great. [/quote]
[quote]Henry Krinkle wrote:
Yes and no. I lift on a MT ThF schedule, so I would load on Sundays and Wednesdays. I’ve even had success without the Wednesday load (i.e. just have one carb meal per week). It will take a week or so to adjust, but once you’ve gone through the initial struggles you’ll feel great. [/quote]
Ah so it’s 2. So basically about 500g of carb up carbs per week? I’m wondering how just one 250-300g meal would affect me now that I’ll be doing the much higher volume/frequency BBB.
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Pauli D wrote:
I’m afraid you may be missing the point.
There was no recommendation for a specific carb-count.
Questions:
In your past experience, do you feel a ‘pump’ during your loads?
If so, when (first hour, last hour, somewhere in the middle of the first day etc…)?
What muscle group(s)?
What were you eating at the time of that sensation?
Or, how long did the sensation last?
We’ll get you straightened out yet…
:^)
What I mean about the carb count is that let’s just say I know I’m going to eat 300g in one sitting in my load. Why would it not be better to spread that out over the day? What benefits would there be to shoving it in in one binge meal?
Also what would I eat for the rest of the day then and would the huge meal be before or after my morning workout?
Thanks
Oh, as for the pump, I never really get these crazy carb up pumps a lot of people talk about. I’m not that big so maybe that’s why? Today’s workout gave me a pretty good pump (day after carb up) but on the carb ups I wouldn’t say I notice much more than normal.
[/quote]
If you do not feel some degree of a pump during your load, you may not be depleted enough to need loading. Hence, the one meal recommendation.
The load is not intended to be a binge -not in the least.
As for when you take this meal, I would do so after your morning training. Then, you would go right back to the pro/fat/min carb approach.
As for what to eat for that meal, well…that is where experimentation comes in.
As another has said, he found brown rice to work best for him. You may want to try that, see how it works for you. Try something else…see how that works -and so on.
It’s a very individual thing and remember…it’s a process. If you don’t enjoy the process and the learning experience …none of this will be very gratifying. But you have to take action to establish your normative and evaluative data.
[quote]Pauli D wrote:
If you do not feel some degree of a pump during your load, you may not be depleted enough to need loading. Hence, the one meal recommendation.
[/quote]
Thats something I’ve thought about. I used to do a little higher volume and some HIIT traing so there was much more glycogen depletion. Now however I’m not doing any depleting cardio and 5/3/1 4x/week is about average volume. Plus I’m not too muscular so who knows. I can’t really remember ever getting a crazy pump from carbs though even when I was doing higher volume (HST) with a CKD approach although it’s been awhile so memory may be a little off.
Do you have any thoughts about the carb load recommendations considering I’ll be switching to BBB which is much higher volume/frequency?
Well, I would enjoy it more if it was working 
But on a serious note I’ll try it this Saturday since it’s a deload week anyway and I likely won’t need as much carbs. So just to run through it how would the day be structured?
Meal 1: Protein and fat?
-workout
Meal 2: Big carb meal probably being between 250-300g
Meals 4-6: Protein + Fat or minimal fat since I had a lot of carbs?
Should I strive to hit the same calories as other workout days?
Thanks Pauli
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
But on a serious note I’ll try it this Saturday since it’s a deload week anyway and I likely won’t need as much carbs. So just to run through it how would the day be structured?
Meal 1: Protein and fat?
-workout
Meal 2: Big carb meal probably being between 250-300g
Meals 4-6: Protein + Fat or minimal fat since I had a lot of carbs?
Should I strive to hit the same calories as other workout days?
Thanks Pauli[/quote]
More Questions:
How’s your energy 1 hour after a meal (non-load)?
What gives you the most energy (food wise)?
Are you using BCAA’s?
How’s your energy immediately after your last training session prior to loading?
Any cold sweats? Shaking? Do you get light-headed at all?
Hey guys,
I have a question re low carb dieting and macro amounts. I follow Poliquin reco’s which are similar really.
I have been on a paleo diet for a long time and typically ate 1.75-2g/lb of protein and approx 120g fats whilst at 200lbs and 10.9% I can gain lean mass using this well, but NOT loss fat well.(Carb up is simply one big meal per week)
Now my fat loss has been terrible over the last 6 + months whilst trying various training methods, dropping fats etc. I related this to a possible thyroid issue, BUT I am always full of energy, other than night time of coarse.
I have always been on the opinion that protein NEEDS to be high(for fear of losing muscle) and after Thibs reco’s of fat intake been around 0.5g/lb and reducing when dieting I have ended up gearing my diet to have much more protein than fats, in terms of calories…
I recently realised that my shitty fat loss, may have been due MORE to the fact that I have turned myself into and protein burner!!! I only hope that this is true because even training twice a day 5 days per week(Heavy AM and lactic acid PM) I don’t burn much fat but make lean gains well.
This week I have dropped my protein to 1.5g/lb and bumped fats up to a good 140-150g…
Thoughts?
GJ
[quote]Pauli D wrote:
More Questions:
1.How’s your energy 1 hour after a meal (non-load)?
2.What gives you the most energy (food wise)?
3.Are you using BCAA’s?
4.How’s your energy immediately after your last training session prior to loading?
5.Any cold sweats? Shaking? Do you get light-headed at all?
[/quote]
Generally fine, I don’t notice too much of a difference in energy levels from food, not enough to notice anyway. I know I ate a 60p/8-10f meal at 5:30pm today and at 7:45 I was incredibly tired, but I was also in spanish class lol, and now at 1am I’m not tired :\
As I mentioned above I haven’t noticed too many specific foods that give me higher energy. I would say I sometimes notice a crash after a lot of carbs but it varies, I tend to have more stable energy on higher fat diets (May be placebo since that’s what I expect to happen anyway, there are definitely some times on a higher fat diet than I’ll have ups and downs though), and just being in a calorie surplus in general is probably the biggest factor. I noticed more energy during my last cut with a keto approach than my cut 2 years ago with a carb cycling approach (I was also doing more intense cardio with the carb cycling approach though)
No unfortunately
That would be thursdays, and then a workout saturday after my first carb meal. Energy is generally fine and steady throughout the entire week.
No cold sweats or shaking, I used to get very light-headed when standing up but haven’t had that in awhile since increasing calories (and loading everything at college with even more salt than I used at home lol)
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Pauli D wrote:
More Questions:
1.How’s your energy 1 hour after a meal (non-load)?
2.What gives you the most energy (food wise)?
3.Are you using BCAA’s?
4.How’s your energy immediately after your last training session prior to loading?
5.Any cold sweats? Shaking? Do you get light-headed at all?
Generally fine, I don’t notice too much of a difference in energy levels from food, not enough to notice anyway. I know I ate a 60p/8-10f meal at 5:30pm today and at 7:45 I was incredibly tired, but I was also in spanish class lol, and now at 1am I’m not tired :\
As I mentioned above I haven’t noticed too many specific foods that give me higher energy. I would say I sometimes notice a crash after a lot of carbs but it varies, I tend to have more stable energy on higher fat diets (May be placebo since that’s what I expect to happen anyway, there are definitely some times on a higher fat diet than I’ll have ups and downs though), and just being in a calorie surplus in general is probably the biggest factor. I noticed more energy during my last cut with a keto approach than my cut 2 years ago with a carb cycling approach (I was also doing more intense cardio with the carb cycling approach though)
No unfortunately
That would be thursdays, and then a workout saturday after my first carb meal. Energy is generally fine and steady throughout the entire week.
No cold sweats or shaking, I used to get very light-headed when standing up but haven’t had that in awhile since increasing calories (and loading everything at college with even more salt than I used at home lol)[/quote]
Keep your protein/fat meals the same. Don’t change a thing.
Training Day:
-Have a red meat breakfast with a handful of macadamias OR almonds OR walnuts (your choice).
-Train.
-After training and after you’ve caught your breath (-because you train so hard you can’t catch your breath or even THINK about eating for at least an hour) have a small portion of meat (2-4oz is plenty)
-2.5 hours after training, have your 60 grams of protein and whatever carb source you’ve chosen for your load. Eat up. Build some muscle.
-Remainder of the day looks like any other. Meat/Fat/Veggies
It’s boring. There’s nothing to it. Nothing to weigh or measure. It’s not fancy -nor is it much fun…But it is brutally effective and clinically sound. It Works…
[quote]Pauli D wrote:
Keep your protein/fat meals the same. Don’t change a thing.
Training Day:
-Have a red meat breakfast with a handful of macadamias OR almonds OR walnuts (your choice).
-Train.
-After training and after you’ve caught your breath (-because you train so hard you can’t catch your breath or even THINK about eating for at least an hour) have a small portion of meat (2-4oz is plenty)
-2.5 hours after training, have your 60 grams of protein and whatever carb source you’ve chosen for your load. Eat up. Build some muscle.
-Remainder of the day looks like any other. Meat/Fat/Veggies
It’s boring. There’s nothing to it. Nothing to weigh or measure. It’s not fancy -nor is it much fun…But it is brutally effective and clinically sound. It Works…
[/quote]
Thanks Pauli I’ll try this for a few weeks and report back here, hopefully you’re still around then lol
just some things I noticed,
Seems like you’re not a big fan of whey/shakes even around workouts?
Workout days for me are pretty high in calories/fat and I’m sure will go up now since I’ll be doing BBB and wasn’t gain weight with what I was doing before. This means workout days will be at least 3200 calories 185f/320p. So I would still have 185g of fat on a carb up day and am basically eating exactly what I would on another workout day PLUS the carbs? So the day (given maybe 5 cups of oatmeal for example) would be like (going off the previous numbers) 4200 calories/320p/250-300c/185f? It’s interesting because I’ve never heard of just leaving the high fat in there that much on a carb up. On a cut yes, but only because fat is generally already low in those circumstances.
#1) I’ve never had much use for whey protein. It has a surprisingly high glycemic load for starters so it’s generally not even on my radar. I get better results with real food. Add to that the fact that the mixture of whey protein and water is called a “shake” and I really hate the stuff. Why are they called “shakes”? -Because you “shake” the plastic container they’re served in? Shakes are made with ice cream and milk.
#2) Your refeed day may or may not be higher calorically. That is something you will have to experiment with. You can moderate your fats to some degree. It might do you some good to trade fat calories for the carbs.
If you’re truly fat-adapted, you’re going to need fats and protein prior to training for energy and to stave of catabolism. After your refeed meal, you’re going to have to go by feel. You may not have much hunger -or maybe you will. But after several hours your fats need to come back up to a 55/45/* sort of split (rough numbers, of course).
Pauli, I wanted to add to the refeed subject. In the past I was following a Palumbo based diet and the one cheat meal a week was whatever you wanted and was the last meal of the day. The last meal concept was that people would use it for it’s purpose (refeed), but if you used it to early in the day the body/mind would want to continue to refeed/carb up for the remainder of the day and cause to much of a cheat. Also I was allowed to eat whatever I wanted within a 45 minute time frame (I believe Palumbo states 2 hour max though).
Now with that being said above, you have to rationalize the difference in diets. Palumbo was clean protein source, nuts, salad, EVOO and supplements (fish oil etc.). With the AD, you are using fattier source protein, cheese, etc… So a crazy refeed may not be necessary with the AD since you get to basically slack with the fattier protein sources during the week.
Just some input on the single meal refeed.
Later