My 16 year old daughter commented that I just made the best guacacomole ever which is a real compliment considering I don’t know shit ;). I suppose I should eat some before it’s gone. Since I just finished a carb load, I’ll need to eat it with pork rins instead of tortilla chips. I bet that will still taste good.
[quote]jsdool wrote:
My 16 year old daughter commented that I just made the best guacacomole ever which is a real compliment considering I don’t know shit ;). I suppose I should eat some before it’s gone. Since I just finished a carb load, I’ll need to eat it with pork rins instead of tortilla chips. I bet that will still taste good.[/quote]
What’s your guacamole recipe? Most of the recipes I see put in so much carby/sugary stuff like Ranch dressing that it’s a horrible frankenstein…
Plus I just found a place that had some very nice and ripe avacados and guacamole + beef or chicken is tasty as hell.
Also, I just saw the thread… Anaconda is being released next week. The Anabolic Diet will officially have a hardcore peri-workout supplement made specifically to trigger everything that a carb-ful PW supplement does without carbs. I will be ordering two bottles ASAP.
[quote]Emz wrote:
samdan wrote:
Emz, about your PWO nutrition question, I asked CT that same thing since he’s the master of workout nutrition. The answer he gave me is that Anaconda and MAG-10 will be like a dream come true for low/no-carbers. Basically, the thing about Anaconda is that it is able to create an insulin response post-workout without actually having any carbs.
Now we just have to wait for Anaconda…
Hey man! It’s not so much the insulin response I was questioning, it’s the gluconeogenic reponse from the ingestion of fast proteins I was looking to clarify - Dr D recommends a blend of both fast/slow pwo and not exclusively whey because of this which runs counter to what most actually do on the AD!! Confusion abounds…[/quote]
A smart man once told me that approx 80% of what every coach preached is golden and the rest more opinion that may not work for every athlete. I take the best advice from each coach and test what will work best. Re your query I stick with a fast protein post workout, which is what Poliquin and many other coaches recommend. I take in BCAA’s during. Poliquin follows much of Dr D’s work and as Pauli D has stated, he says Dr D is brilliant…therefore I imagine he would also recommend a similar approach for his athletes when it comes to food amounts with protein and fats.
I too was concerned and a bit confused about Poliquins recommendations of such a high protein intake, and when I dropped it and increase my fats I experienced better fat loss results. Always go with what works!! His high protein diet MAY only work with some athletes for fat loss or and for muscle gain. I know that for me, when I increase protein I gain muscle very well.
GJ
[quote]samdan wrote:
Emz wrote:
Hey man! It’s not so much the insulin response I was questioning, it’s the gluconeogenic reponse from the ingestion of fast proteins I was looking to clarify - Dr D recommends a blend of both fast/slow pwo and not exclusively whey because of this which runs counter to what most actually do on the AD!! Confusion abounds…
Ah, okay… Missed that part. I can’t say I’m an expert, but going back to things that CT talks about a lot, he seems to espouse getting fast proteins plus BCAA’s post-workout. Usually he’s recommending them in the form of Surge Recovery (which has BCAA’s plus whey hydrolysate), but the problem for AD people comes in the form of a high number of carbs in Surge.
Workout nutrition studies seem to have sprung up big time lately, and CT seems to be one of the smartest guys who’s really testing the ideas in the field. You can try asking CT directly in his peri-workout nutrition thread (Forums - T Nation - The World's Trusted Community for Elite Fitness, he actually does a damn good job of responding quickly), or you might even just be able to read through the last 5-8 pages (pages 37-39 seem to ask similar questions from a lot of different angles).
Hope that helps you.[/quote]
You said it man, CT is one prolific dude when it comes to peri workout! DH, while being an awesome AD vet really knows his stuff on peri workout nutrition too, I saw a couple of his posts in CT’s thread, I used to follow the thread closely for a while but stopped, might have to pop over again for a gander!! The only issue with that thread is that these guys are using a boatload of supps to achieve what they do, being based in the uk limits my access to these for one and for another, I’ve recently become a home owner for the 1st time so I’ve had to cut back on supps, I keep it basic and simple atm - Whey Isolate/MPC/BCAA are my weapons of choice for peri workoout until I get a handle on cost of living etc!
Well, you’ve got BCAA’s and fast whey… I think CT would approve, especially because my particular question was that of a minimalist supplement stack. I mostly just use Spike for energy, and he said that adding Anaconda and MAG-10 would be good, which leads me to think that its the BCAA and fast-acting protein in conjunction with the insulin spike that’s MOST important. No FINiBARs, Alpha-GPC, etc. required. Unless you’re a bodybuilder trying to become the beastiest beast you can beast.
I’m going to buy some BCAA’s and Anaconda when it comes out, and that’ll be my PW nutrition until MAG-10 comes out and then I’ll assess whether or not it would be worth using as well.
[quote]Gymjunkie wrote:
Emz wrote:
samdan wrote:
Emz, about your PWO nutrition question, I asked CT that same thing since he’s the master of workout nutrition. The answer he gave me is that Anaconda and MAG-10 will be like a dream come true for low/no-carbers. Basically, the thing about Anaconda is that it is able to create an insulin response post-workout without actually having any carbs.
Now we just have to wait for Anaconda…
Hey man! It’s not so much the insulin response I was questioning, it’s the gluconeogenic reponse from the ingestion of fast proteins I was looking to clarify - Dr D recommends a blend of both fast/slow pwo and not exclusively whey because of this which runs counter to what most actually do on the AD!! Confusion abounds…
A smart man once told me that approx 80% of what every coach preached is golden and the rest more opinion that may not work for every athlete. I take the best advice from each coach and test what will work best. Re your query I stick with a fast protein post workout, which is what Poliquin and many other coaches recommend. I take in BCAA’s during. Poliquin follows much of Dr D’s work and as Pauli D has stated, he says Dr D is brilliant…therefore I imagine he would also recommend a similar approach for his athletes when it comes to food amounts with protein and fats.
I too was concerned and a bit confused about Poliquins recommendations of such a high protein intake, and when I dropped it and increase my fats I experienced better fat loss results. Always go with what works!! His high protein diet MAY only work with some athletes for fat loss or and for muscle gain. I know that for me, when I increase protein I gain muscle very well.
GJ
[/quote]
Hey dude! That’s what I try and do, draw from a variety of sources to better educate/understand/employ but sometimes I draw too much and suffer from information overload which tends to cause paralysis by analysis preventing me from adopting/employing things I’ve learned! I read your advice to Pumped a couple of pages back concerning consuming too much protein, very good, very solid advice I thought. I’ve always considered 1-1.5 g/lb to the optimal zone, personally I’ve never gone above 1.5 but on reading your advice, as well as that of DH/Il Cazo et al, really big guys who were not consuming anything close to that, at least, not from what I read, I began to question my consumption and made some changes today, I really don’t think the amount of mass I’m currently carrying qualifies me for a consumptive level of 1.5g/lb 
I’m down to 1.3g/lb and upped fats to see how I do! Refeed day tom, totally psyched =)
On a different note (and this question is open to all), I typically mix up some isolate/mpc when I can’t get solid food in, I’m currently using it in a 60/40 split respectively, do you reckon this is about right or does it need tweaking - of late I’ve been thinking that maybe it needs to be more 50/50 as mpc contains some whey in itself!
That’s it my man! I too, confuse myself from info overload…you simply have to pick one method and test out.
So, pick your macros and assess after a week or two.
I will up my protein and fats evenly when ready for more lean mass…even more protein relative to fats, BUT no more than 50% again, which definately turns me into a protein oxidizer.
Re you macro mix for your shake, just keep it 50/50 fast/slow…in the end it wont make a big difference at all imo.
GJ
Hey guys,
What are your thoughts on including tuna to the Anabolic Diet? Bad choice??
Thanks!
Tuna is not particularly bad on the AD…BUT it is a bad source of protein. It is referred to as “Crap of the sea” by a friend of mine. Fresh fish would be a far better choice, cooked in organic butter…mmm
GJ
Tuna is a lean meat with healthy fats. If you think that that is a bad choice in any diet, you are severely mistaken.
I like to take some tuna, throw in some olive oil (and lately some sauerkraut) and go to town. The olive oil is purely for some extra healthy fats.
[quote]samdan wrote:
Tuna is a lean meat with healthy fats. If you think that that is a bad choice in any diet, you are severely mistaken.
I like to take some tuna, throw in some olive oil (and lately some sauerkraut) and go to town. The olive oil is purely for some extra healthy fats.[/quote]
I should have asked if the OP was referring to canned tuna or fresh tuna. Canned tuna is what I was referring to.
GJ
Hey everyone this week is my 30th week of the AD style of eating/living,
I defiantly love this style of eating and will probably do it for the rest of my days. I have found that I don’t react well at all to carb loads. For the past few weeks I have been experimenting with a few carbs only pre workout. I lift 4 times a week at 5:40 in the morning.
So, on workout days I have been drinking a shake consisting of about 100g of several different sources of carbs at around 4:20 am. And skipping the refeed days all together. Has anyone else tried this and had success? And i have been doing a progressive bulking phase (starting at maintenance and adding around 200 cals every week) at 4200 this week. Anyone done this before with success? thanks
[quote]samdan wrote:
…What’s your guacamole recipe? Most of the recipes I see put in so much carby/sugary stuff like Ranch dressing that it’s a horrible frankenstein…[/quote]
I found out that there really isn’t a specific recipe for guacamole. It is a sauce made from avocados. Some recipes call for adding tomatoes and some don’t. All I did was mash some avocados, add some garlic, some lime juice, add some chopped cilantro, some salt and some fresh ground pepper. Avocados have quite some carbs but not too bad given the good fats you get. I thought I added too much cilantro but it really made it taste great and gave it more volume with virtually no increase in carbs.
[quote]Gymjunkie wrote:
That’s it my man! I too, confuse myself from info overload…you simply have to pick one method and test out.
So, pick your macros and assess after a week or two.
I will up my protein and fats evenly when ready for more lean mass…even more protein relative to fats, BUT no more than 50% again, which definately turns me into a protein oxidizer.
Re you macro mix for your shake, just keep it 50/50 fast/slow…in the end it wont make a big difference at all imo.
GJ[/quote]
I appreciate your input dude, already made some changes, time will tell how they pan out!!
Do you reckon it makes much of a difference if the refeed falls on a training day or not? Poliquin says it should fall on an off day, other coaches suggest it would be preferable for the refeed to be on a training day, Dr D states there should be no carbs after training for several hours to keep insulin sensitivity high and when you train after work and the refeed would have to come 2-3 hours after training, well, I just don’t know, maybe I’m being overtaly anal about the details but I beileve if your going to do something then do it right first time!
[quote]GramboUSMC88 wrote:
Hey everyone this week is my 30th week of the AD style of eating/living,
I defiantly love this style of eating and will probably do it for the rest of my days. I have found that I don’t react well at all to carb loads. For the past few weeks I have been experimenting with a few carbs only pre workout. I lift 4 times a week at 5:40 in the morning. So, on workout days I have been drinking a shake consisting of about 100g of several different sources of carbs at around 4:20 am. And skipping the refeed days all together. Has anyone else tried this and had success? And i have been doing a progressive bulking phase (starting at maintenance and adding around 200 cals every week) at 4200 this week. Anyone done this before with success? thanks[/quote]
5:40!!! Holy crap that’s early, kudos to you man, I could never!! I know a lot who feel like you and have done very well with a targeted approach, but some find that taking carbs pre workout makes them sleepy!! Doesn’t CT now advocate pre/during carbs and none after (I really need to catch up on his peri workout thread!!), if so your in good company. Truth be told, I struggle with the all day refeeds but I enjoy being able to eat some crap, drink a beer, whatever and not worry about it - to quote DH, the refeeds are fun!! To make it more manageable I’ve ditched the AD’s hyoooooge all day refeeds and adopted more of a NHE/Poliquin type refeed where I have more frequent abbreviated loads, typically every 3-5 days depending!
[quote]Emz wrote:
GramboUSMC88 wrote:
Hey everyone this week is my 30th week of the AD style of eating/living,
I defiantly love this style of eating and will probably do it for the rest of my days. I have found that I don’t react well at all to carb loads. For the past few weeks I have been experimenting with a few carbs only pre workout. I lift 4 times a week at 5:40 in the morning. So, on workout days I have been drinking a shake consisting of about 100g of several different sources of carbs at around 4:20 am. And skipping the refeed days all together. Has anyone else tried this and had success? And i have been doing a progressive bulking phase (starting at maintenance and adding around 200 cals every week) at 4200 this week. Anyone done this before with success? thanks
5:40!!! Holy crap that’s early, kudos to you man, I could never!! I know a lot who feel like you and have done very well with a targeted approach, but some find that taking carbs pre workout makes them sleepy!! Doesn’t CT now advocate pre/during carbs and none after (I really need to catch up on his peri workout thread!!), if so your in good company. Truth be told, I struggle with the all day refeeds but I enjoy being able to eat some crap, drink a beer, whatever and not worry about it - to quote DH, the refeeds are fun!! To make it more manageable I’ve ditched the AD’s hyoooooge all day refeeds and adopted more of a NHE/Poliquin type refeed where I have more frequent abbreviated loads, typically every 3-5 days depending![/quote]
I know man! really early, Gotta get it in before school though. I used to do the same thing with just a meal on saturday or sunday, but come wednesday and thursday I felt like I didn’t have any fuel in the tank. So with a carby shake (good amount of coffee mixed in there) about an hour and a half before I lift seems to be working, the rest of the day is under 50g carbs (all of which come from vegetables)
[quote]GramboUSMC88 wrote:
Emz wrote:
GramboUSMC88 wrote:
Hey everyone this week is my 30th week of the AD style of eating/living,
I defiantly love this style of eating and will probably do it for the rest of my days. I have found that I don’t react well at all to carb loads. For the past few weeks I have been experimenting with a few carbs only pre workout. I lift 4 times a week at 5:40 in the morning. So, on workout days I have been drinking a shake consisting of about 100g of several different sources of carbs at around 4:20 am. And skipping the refeed days all together. Has anyone else tried this and had success? And i have been doing a progressive bulking phase (starting at maintenance and adding around 200 cals every week) at 4200 this week. Anyone done this before with success? thanks
5:40!!! Holy crap that’s early, kudos to you man, I could never!! I know a lot who feel like you and have done very well with a targeted approach, but some find that taking carbs pre workout makes them sleepy!! Doesn’t CT now advocate pre/during carbs and none after (I really need to catch up on his peri workout thread!!), if so your in good company. Truth be told, I struggle with the all day refeeds but I enjoy being able to eat some crap, drink a beer, whatever and not worry about it - to quote DH, the refeeds are fun!! To make it more manageable I’ve ditched the AD’s hyoooooge all day refeeds and adopted more of a NHE/Poliquin type refeed where I have more frequent abbreviated loads, typically every 3-5 days depending!
I know man! really early, Gotta get it in before school though. I used to do the same thing with just a meal on saturday or sunday, but come wednesday and thursday I felt like I didn’t have any fuel in the tank. So with a carby shake (good amount of coffee mixed in there) about an hour and a half before I lift seems to be working, the rest of the day is under 50g carbs (all of which come from vegetables)[/quote]
I used to feel like that, I had a refeed on Sunday and come Wed/Thu I was drained, really lethargic so switched to the NHE plan where you refeed every Sun/Wed last meal of the day and that worked well, sorted me out a treat, NHE/Gironda structure might be might be more your thing, refeed every 3/4th day??
When I look back I think I hadn’t adapted properly (despite following the plan as laid out) and was in metabolic limbo coz I’ve done the adaption for a total of 3 times since October’08, last one being in August of this year and I now find I can go the whole week without a refeed and still feel/function fine and hitting the weights hard but I’ve now settled on Poliquin’s method of refeeding every 5th day, best compromise I find for my current goals!
[quote]GramboUSMC88 wrote:
Emz wrote:
GramboUSMC88 wrote:
Hey everyone this week is my 30th week of the AD style of eating/living,
I defiantly love this style of eating and will probably do it for the rest of my days. I have found that I don’t react well at all to carb loads. For the past few weeks I have been experimenting with a few carbs only pre workout. I lift 4 times a week at 5:40 in the morning. So, on workout days I have been drinking a shake consisting of about 100g of several different sources of carbs at around 4:20 am. And skipping the refeed days all together. Has anyone else tried this and had success? And i have been doing a progressive bulking phase (starting at maintenance and adding around 200 cals every week) at 4200 this week. Anyone done this before with success? thanks
5:40!!! Holy crap that’s early, kudos to you man, I could never!! I know a lot who feel like you and have done very well with a targeted approach, but some find that taking carbs pre workout makes them sleepy!! Doesn’t CT now advocate pre/during carbs and none after (I really need to catch up on his peri workout thread!!), if so your in good company. Truth be told, I struggle with the all day refeeds but I enjoy being able to eat some crap, drink a beer, whatever and not worry about it - to quote DH, the refeeds are fun!! To make it more manageable I’ve ditched the AD’s hyoooooge all day refeeds and adopted more of a NHE/Poliquin type refeed where I have more frequent abbreviated loads, typically every 3-5 days depending!
I know man! really early, Gotta get it in before school though. I used to do the same thing with just a meal on saturday or sunday, but come wednesday and thursday I felt like I didn’t have any fuel in the tank. So with a carby shake (good amount of coffee mixed in there) about an hour and a half before I lift seems to be working, the rest of the day is under 50g carbs (all of which come from vegetables)[/quote]
I’m actually planning on doing something similar. I’m going to drop the refeed (which has been one meal of 300g of carbs or so) and instead lower fat on workout days and place carbs pre/peri-workout and see how that goes. It is a somewhat common approach. I know Modok does something similar and if you’ve been reading the site you know CT advocates more peri-workout carbs (also lower fat though)
[quote]Pauli D wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
Gymjunkie wrote:
Okay,
Keeping it as simple as possible:
Drop the chicken, eggs and cottage cheese. Switch to Lamb, beef or and fish.
Keep the same fats, thats cool. Veggies chosen are fine.
Don’t be TOOO anal about food intake. Make each meal roughly 40-50g protein cooked with good fats and eat when you are hungry…4-6 meals a day.
Training, I would pick “Destroying the Fat” by Thib and follow this. You SHOULD get lean and build muscle if you bust your ass and your body will tell you how many meals you NEED…the harder you train, the more food you will need.
GOODLUCK
GJ
Well it sounds good in theory but I can’t drop the chicken or the eggs as thats almost ALL of my protein intake for the day. What I listed is all I have access to (I live at college), no beef or lamb. I do want to bring some cans of tuna back though when I go home next weekend (just gonna have to deal with the smell lol).
I’m gaining fairly well on my current routine (BBB), just too much fat with it. So you think I should add more intense cardio in general I guess? I’m considering adding the cardio post-workout 2 days per week in addition to what I’m doing now although I’m not sure how that will affect gains. It’s the only time I have to do it though
GymJunkie is right, Pumped.
At 16-20% bf, you are very insulin resistant. This means that your nutrient partitioning is really poor and your body has an easier time storing fat then it does building muscle. In fact, you probably utilize roughly 65% of whatever you eat to fortify your fat cells and create new ones while a measly 5-10% of what you eat tries to get close to your muscle cells.
Not a very good ratio now is it?
Of course as I’ve told you in the past…you can build muscle without being lean first, but it’s a slow go. You can build and you can get stronger, but will store an awful lot of fat along with your newly crafted muscle and strength.
The better road for you would be to do as GJ suggests and ‘attack the fat’ while you give your body a reason to hang on to your muscle. Thib’s program is very good. Poliquin’s German Body Comp is also very good. Afterburn is good, EDT is good…any high density, burn your lungs out, moderate/high intensity work will help you reach your goals right now.
Strength only or advanced BB routines are out of your league for the time being. No shame in that…it’s just the state of things right now. Attack the fat and build up your work capacity. You’ll be better of. You will lean up while you improve your insulin sensitivity and your nutrient partitioning capabilities. In the end, it will be far, far easier to build muscle tissue after you get below 10%.
Ask Mark.
He’ll tell you that the period of greatest muscle growth for a bodybuilder is right after a show (if he can control himself).
After a BB’er gets super lean, he is so insulin sensitive that he experiences hyper-growth and super-compensation for as long as 6 weeks after a show. As he gets back up to the 8-10% mark, that muscle growth will slow.
The more fat you carry, the more fat your body wants to carry and the less muscle your body wants to build.
For what it’s worth… [/quote]
Sorry, I know this post is several days old, but I’ve been mulling it over and I wanted to ask a few related questions if that’s ok.
At what bf level would a woman typically see an increase in insulin sensitivity? You stated above that a man below 10% would be very sensitive to insulin, but above that they start to increase resistance. 10% seems crazy lean for a woman, although I know FAs and BBers can get that lean for contests.
And also, how lean would you say a woman would need to get to enter that optimal muscle-building phase? I guess I’m basically asking if there is a significant difference between men and women in this respect.
I’ve been on the AD for about 8 months, and I’ve lost a great deal of fat in that time. I’ve never gotten a professional measurement, but based on what the wacky gadgets in the gym and my eyeballs tell me, I’ve gone from about 25+% to about 16 -17%. I have been doing a slow bulk recently, because I felt like I was looking a little too skinny and I needed some more muscle, but now I’m wondering if I need to cut some more fat first. According to my scale I’ve put on about 3 pounds in the past month, and according to my eyeballs it looks like it’s mostly muscle.
Okay, that got a little long, sorry. My basic question is: should I get my bf lower before I worry about putting on muscle? And if yes, is there a ballpark number I should be looking at?
[quote]sunshne wrote:
Sorry, I know this post is several days old, but I’ve been mulling it over and I wanted to ask a few related questions if that’s ok.
At what bf level would a woman typically see an increase in insulin sensitivity? You stated above that a man below 10% would be very sensitive to insulin, but above that they start to increase resistance. 10% seems crazy lean for a woman, although I know FAs and BBers can get that lean for contests.
[/quote]
A lean female -depending on age -will generally be between 16% - 20% bf.
The closer you are to 16% -the more insulin sensitive you will be. Some woman can maintain sub 16% bf without disturbing their hormonal cycle -but these are the exceptions, rather than the rule. And, yes FA’s and BB’ers do get leaner -but again, this is generally for a targeted date or event and not maintained long-term.
[quote]
And also, how lean would you say a woman would need to get to enter that optimal muscle-building phase? I guess I’m basically asking if there is a significant difference between men and women in this respect. [/quote]
Yes, there are very significant differences between males and females. As a general rule, try not to compare yourself to males in regards to fat loss and muscle building. Females have completely different challenges and completely different advantages -in both regards.
[quote]
I’ve been on the AD for about 8 months, and I’ve lost a great deal of fat in that time. I’ve never gotten a professional measurement, but based on what the wacky gadgets in the gym and my eyeballs tell me, I’ve gone from about 25+% to about 16 -17%. I have been doing a slow bulk recently, because I felt like I was looking a little too skinny and I needed some more muscle, but now I’m wondering if I need to cut some more fat first. According to my scale I’ve put on about 3 pounds in the past month, and according to my eyeballs it looks like it’s mostly muscle.
Okay, that got a little long, sorry. My basic question is: should I get my bf lower before I worry about putting on muscle? And if yes, is there a ballpark number I should be looking at?[/quote]
Without professional assessment, bodyfat calculations are not really going to be very useful to you. A skilled professional can determine your hormonal variances using skinfold calipers -but for your …purposes the mirror and the tape measure are going to be your best tools.
Forget the scale.
The scale only tells you your relative gravity to the earth -nothing more.
If you are striving for a certain physical appearance -then watch the mirror for progress. Take photographs and compare every week or every other week.
Use a tape measure to measure your waist and monitor that measurement closely.
Measure at the same time and on the same day every week. First thing upon waking -before eating and before drinking -but after eliminating -works best.
Let us know if we can help.
~Paul