My Experience On the Anabolic Diet Part III

Nutrition
341

[quote]Gymjunkie wrote:

Okay,

Keeping it as simple as possible:

Drop the chicken, eggs and cottage cheese. Switch to Lamb, beef or and fish.

Keep the same fats, thats cool. Veggies chosen are fine.

Don’t be TOOO anal about food intake. Make each meal roughly 40-50g protein cooked with good fats and eat when you are hungry…4-6 meals a day.

Training, I would pick “Destroying the Fat” by Thib and follow this. You SHOULD get lean and build muscle if you bust your ass and your body will tell you how many meals you NEED…the harder you train, the more food you will need.

GOODLUCK
GJ[/quote]

Well it sounds good in theory but I can’t drop the chicken or the eggs as thats almost ALL of my protein intake for the day. What I listed is all I have access to (I live at college), no beef or lamb. I do want to bring some cans of tuna back though when I go home next weekend (just gonna have to deal with the smell lol).

I’m gaining fairly well on my current routine (BBB), just too much fat with it. So you think I should add more intense cardio in general I guess? I’m considering adding the cardio post-workout 2 days per week in addition to what I’m doing now although I’m not sure how that will affect gains. It’s the only time I have to do it though

342

[quote]Pauli D wrote:
So, how was the contest, Mark?
Did you do as well as you felt you should?

Mark74 wrote:
I did the AD since early summer preparing for a couple bodybuilding competitions…my last being a little over a week ago. My fear was I would go carb crazy post contest and never get back on the AD. Looks like I’m married to the AD for the long-haul…I actually look forward to going back to low carbs come Monday.

Not only that, but the low carb weekdays have kept post-contest water retention to a minimum. This diet kicks ass, but I’m a firm believer in tweaking it to fit your indivual goals.

I train Mon, Tues, Thurs and Sat. My Sat workout is a full-body circuit and it’s the only day I train in the AM. I don’t hit the carbs until Saturday around 1pm and carb through Sunday which is a full rest day. This approach seems to work best for me.

[/quote]

Personally, I thought the judging was BS, but that’s bodybuilding for you, right? :slight_smile: I could have been sharper and my body was getting tired from competing five times in the past 10 months. Very much enjoying being off such a strict diet (still doing the AD!!) and spending time with the family.

343

[quote]Mark74 wrote:
Pauli D wrote:
So, how was the contest, Mark?
Did you do as well as you felt you should?

Mark74 wrote:
I did the AD since early summer preparing for a couple bodybuilding competitions…my last being a little over a week ago. My fear was I would go carb crazy post contest and never get back on the AD. Looks like I’m married to the AD for the long-haul…I actually look forward to going back to low carbs come Monday.

Not only that, but the low carb weekdays have kept post-contest water retention to a minimum. This diet kicks ass, but I’m a firm believer in tweaking it to fit your indivual goals.

I train Mon, Tues, Thurs and Sat. My Sat workout is a full-body circuit and it’s the only day I train in the AM. I don’t hit the carbs until Saturday around 1pm and carb through Sunday which is a full rest day. This approach seems to work best for me.

Personally, I thought the judging was BS, but that’s bodybuilding for you, right? :slight_smile: I could have been sharper and my body was getting tired from competing five times in the past 10 months. Very much enjoying being off such a strict diet (still doing the AD!!) and spending time with the family.[/quote]

Now that is some awesome conditioning and muscle mass!

What did you diet look like pre-comp, say once you were under 9% getting down to comp conditioning?

GJ

344

Damn man, very impressive!

How many calories were you eating up until the show and how many do you think you’ll be eating to gain weight? Did you do strict AD for the contest or deviate with something else you found worked?

345

[quote]Gymjunkie wrote:
Mark74 wrote:
Pauli D wrote:
So, how was the contest, Mark?
Did you do as well as you felt you should?

Mark74 wrote:
I did the AD since early summer preparing for a couple bodybuilding competitions…my last being a little over a week ago. My fear was I would go carb crazy post contest and never get back on the AD. Looks like I’m married to the AD for the long-haul…I actually look forward to going back to low carbs come Monday.

Not only that, but the low carb weekdays have kept post-contest water retention to a minimum. This diet kicks ass, but I’m a firm believer in tweaking it to fit your indivual goals.

I train Mon, Tues, Thurs and Sat. My Sat workout is a full-body circuit and it’s the only day I train in the AM. I don’t hit the carbs until Saturday around 1pm and carb through Sunday which is a full rest day. This approach seems to work best for me.

Personally, I thought the judging was BS, but that’s bodybuilding for you, right? :slight_smile: I could have been sharper and my body was getting tired from competing five times in the past 10 months. Very much enjoying being off such a strict diet (still doing the AD!!) and spending time with the family.

Now that is some awesome conditioning and muscle mass!

What did you diet look like pre-comp, say once you were under 9% getting down to comp conditioning?

GJ[/quote]

Thanks, GJ. Honestly, bro, I’ve probably been under 9% since this time last year. Here is what I was eating from about 4 weeks out…

Meal #1:
Smoked Salmon, 2 pieces of string mozzarella cheese, 1/4 cup almonds

Meal #2:
Shredded/mixed - chicken, lettuce, cabbage, chopped walnuts, olive oil, tablespoon Fage greek yogurt. 5 grams leucine 15 minutes prior.

Meal #3:
Same as #2

Meal #4:
Shake - 1 serving PRO Gram.

Meal #5:
Same as #2

Meal #6:
same as #4

Meal #7:
Same as #2

Train - BCAA’s and Leucine pre-workout, whey isolate and hydrolyzed caseinate during.

Meal #8:
Metabolic Drive before bed with 1/4 cup almonds.

In terms of the weekend carbs as prescribed in the AD, I just did about 200-300 grams on Saturday from noon to 4pm. Sunday was back on low carb.

346

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Damn man, very impressive!

How many calories were you eating up until the show and how many do you think you’ll be eating to gain weight? Did you do strict AD for the contest or deviate with something else you found worked?[/quote]

I competed in Sept and prepared using something pretty close to the AD. I say pretty close because I formulated the diet myself and at the time didn’t know anything about Dr. Di Pasquale or the AD. Subsequently I stumbled across, bought and read the Anabolic Solution after the Sept event and began following it more closely.

My calories were pretty low from 4 weeks out…ranging from about 2,350 on training days to 1,950 on non-training days.

Right now I’m so freaking sick of portioning food, I’m eating whatever I want…within reason. I’m still aiming for 30 carbs per day and eating plenty of organic, grass fed beef, eggs, salmon, olive oil, nuts, etc…with about a 24 hours carb reload on the weekends from Saturday afternoon to Sunday afternoon.

347

Thanks Mark,

Your knowledge about your body and how it reacts to food types/amounts etc shows.

GJ

348

[quote]Mark74 wrote:
Pauli D wrote:
So, how was the contest, Mark?
Did you do as well as you felt you should?

Personally, I thought the judging was BS, but that’s bodybuilding for you, right? :slight_smile: I could have been sharper and my body was getting tired from competing five times in the past 10 months. Very much enjoying being off such a strict diet (still doing the AD!!) and spending time with the family.[/quote]

Looking real, real good, Mark -real, real good.
Are you tall? Your abs are sick! Long muscle bellies and super proportionate -Very well balanced!

5 competitions in ten months is an insane schedule. You must stay pretty tight all year long to pull that off. That’s some dedication. Well done! Thanks for sharing and stick around, eh?
We could use your experience.

~Paul

349

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Gymjunkie wrote:

Okay,

Keeping it as simple as possible:

Drop the chicken, eggs and cottage cheese. Switch to Lamb, beef or and fish.

Keep the same fats, thats cool. Veggies chosen are fine.

Don’t be TOOO anal about food intake. Make each meal roughly 40-50g protein cooked with good fats and eat when you are hungry…4-6 meals a day.

Training, I would pick “Destroying the Fat” by Thib and follow this. You SHOULD get lean and build muscle if you bust your ass and your body will tell you how many meals you NEED…the harder you train, the more food you will need.

GOODLUCK
GJ

Well it sounds good in theory but I can’t drop the chicken or the eggs as thats almost ALL of my protein intake for the day. What I listed is all I have access to (I live at college), no beef or lamb. I do want to bring some cans of tuna back though when I go home next weekend (just gonna have to deal with the smell lol).

I’m gaining fairly well on my current routine (BBB), just too much fat with it. So you think I should add more intense cardio in general I guess? I’m considering adding the cardio post-workout 2 days per week in addition to what I’m doing now although I’m not sure how that will affect gains. It’s the only time I have to do it though [/quote]

GymJunkie is right, Pumped.
At 16-20% bf, you are very insulin resistant. This means that your nutrient partitioning is really poor and your body has an easier time storing fat then it does building muscle. In fact, you probably utilize roughly 65% of whatever you eat to fortify your fat cells and create new ones while a measly 5-10% of what you eat tries to get close to your muscle cells.
Not a very good ratio now is it?

Of course as I’ve told you in the past…you can build muscle without being lean first, but it’s a slow go. You can build and you can get stronger, but will store an awful lot of fat along with your newly crafted muscle and strength.

The better road for you would be to do as GJ suggests and ‘attack the fat’ while you give your body a reason to hang on to your muscle. Thib’s program is very good. Poliquin’s German Body Comp is also very good. Afterburn is good, EDT is good…any high density, burn your lungs out, moderate/high intensity work will help you reach your goals right now.

Strength only or advanced BB routines are out of your league for the time being. No shame in that…it’s just the state of things right now. Attack the fat and build up your work capacity. You’ll be better of. You will lean up while you improve your insulin sensitivity and your nutrient partitioning capabilities. In the end, it will be far, far easier to build muscle tissue after you get below 10%.

Ask Mark.
He’ll tell you that the period of greatest muscle growth for a bodybuilder is right after a show (if he can control himself).

After a BB’er gets super lean, he is so insulin sensitive that he experiences hyper-growth and super-compensation for as long as 6 weeks after a show. As he gets back up to the 8-10% mark, that muscle growth will slow.

The more fat you carry, the more fat your body wants to carry and the less muscle your body wants to build.

For what it’s worth…

350

Re getting into supercomp post contest…

I’m currently busting my balls with my current routine and planning NOT to deload and begin a 2 or 3 a day Super Accumulation workout(2 weeks off) prior to my honeymoon in 4 weeks…ALL so I can get in supercompensation and make the most of the food during the honeymoon, HAHAHA. I will keep it relatively clean, but there will be 5 days of carbs! Unfortunately, I got to train myself into the ground, until test drops, depression kicks in a bit, but day one of the load should make it all better.

Having done the SUPER ACCUMULATION before, I know what to look out for…

GJ

351

[quote]Pauli D wrote:

GymJunkie is right, Pumped.
At 16-20% bf, you are very insulin resistant. This means that your nutrient partitioning is really poor and your body has an easier time storing fat then it does building muscle. In fact, you probably utilize roughly 65% of whatever you eat to fortify your fat cells and create new ones while a measly 5-10% of what you eat tries to get close to your muscle cells.
Not a very good ratio now is it?

Of course as I’ve told you in the past…you can build muscle without being lean first, but it’s a slow go. You can build and you can get stronger, but will store an awful lot of fat along with your newly crafted muscle and strength.

The better road for you would be to do as GJ suggests and ‘attack the fat’ while you give your body a reason to hang on to your muscle. Thib’s program is very good. Poliquin’s German Body Comp is also very good. Afterburn is good, EDT is good…any high density, burn your lungs out, moderate/high intensity work will help you reach your goals right now.

Strength only or advanced BB routines are out of your league for the time being. No shame in that…it’s just the state of things right now. Attack the fat and build up your work capacity. You’ll be better of. You will lean up while you improve your insulin sensitivity and your nutrient partitioning capabilities. In the end, it will be far, far easier to build muscle tissue after you get below 10%.

Ask Mark.
He’ll tell you that the period of greatest muscle growth for a bodybuilder is right after a show (if he can control himself).

After a BB’er gets super lean, he is so insulin sensitive that he experiences hyper-growth and super-compensation for as long as 6 weeks after a show. As he gets back up to the 8-10% mark, that muscle growth will slow.

The more fat you carry, the more fat your body wants to carry and the less muscle your body wants to build.

For what it’s worth… [/quote]

All I know is that before starting BBB I hadn’t seen good progress (muscle-gain wise) in awhile. Since starting BBB my strength has definitely been increasing and I’ve gotten 2 comments about looking bigger which I haven’t gotten in over a year. I really don’t feel it’s an issue with my workouts (my workouts aren’t going to make me fat and they are apparently providing a stimulus for progression). If I’m gaining too much fat wouldn’t that almost entirely be due to cardio/diet related reasons? I don’t see how switching to from a program thats clearly providing progress to some metabolic conditioning whatever would be helpful (I don’t mean to sound stuck up there or anything at all, I value your advice, but who has gotten really big doing metabolic workouts and the like?).

I don’t doubt at all that being lean is better, but I’ve personally never been below 10% and have found that 1. It takes me a very long time to cut fat and 2. after awhile or if I try to speed things up with more cardio/less calories my strength stalls and things just suck…progression stops. I don’t mind being above 10%, I just wish it wouldn’t keep going up so fast while I gain muscle.

352

But pumped, look at it this way, you’re not obese or even near overweight, and you’ve been training for a while, right? Probably well past newbie gains, so I think you’re at the stage where building muscle will inevitably involve adding fat too. You can’t two serve masters and other cliches, etc.

353

I’d like a hand here guys.

Some stats:

Age:19
bf: 10-12%
weight: 74kg
Height: 5’7’

  1. Tomorrow would be the 12th day of me being on, basically, AD. I can easily hold off, should I refeed anyhow? If so, I tend to get overboard with my high carb days as I am trying to stay sociable. Any tips will be highly appreciated. Do I look for ‘smoothness’ straight after a meal?

  2. Given my stats, what will be a good basic strategy to follow in terms of diet/cardio/weight program. I am currently 500 cal under maintenance, perform HIIT 20m/day x4, and 2 days of 1 hour circuit training. I don’t follow anything in particular in the gym, just addressing some lagging body parts using autoregulation.

Thank you so much!

354

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Pauli D wrote:

GymJunkie is right, Pumped.
At 16-20% bf, you are very insulin resistant. This means that your nutrient partitioning is really poor and your body has an easier time storing fat then it does building muscle. In fact, you probably utilize roughly 65% of whatever you eat to fortify your fat cells and create new ones while a measly 5-10% of what you eat tries to get close to your muscle cells.
Not a very good ratio now is it?

Of course as I’ve told you in the past…you can build muscle without being lean first, but it’s a slow go. You can build and you can get stronger, but will store an awful lot of fat along with your newly crafted muscle and strength.

The better road for you would be to do as GJ suggests and ‘attack the fat’ while you give your body a reason to hang on to your muscle. Thib’s program is very good. Poliquin’s German Body Comp is also very good. Afterburn is good, EDT is good…any high density, burn your lungs out, moderate/high intensity work will help you reach your goals right now.

Strength only or advanced BB routines are out of your league for the time being. No shame in that…it’s just the state of things right now. Attack the fat and build up your work capacity. You’ll be better of. You will lean up while you improve your insulin sensitivity and your nutrient partitioning capabilities. In the end, it will be far, far easier to build muscle tissue after you get below 10%.

Ask Mark.
He’ll tell you that the period of greatest muscle growth for a bodybuilder is right after a show (if he can control himself).

After a BB’er gets super lean, he is so insulin sensitive that he experiences hyper-growth and super-compensation for as long as 6 weeks after a show. As he gets back up to the 8-10% mark, that muscle growth will slow.

The more fat you carry, the more fat your body wants to carry and the less muscle your body wants to build.

For what it’s worth…

All I know is that before starting BBB I hadn’t seen good progress (muscle-gain wise) in awhile. Since starting BBB my strength has definitely been increasing and I’ve gotten 2 comments about looking bigger which I haven’t gotten in over a year. I really don’t feel it’s an issue with my workouts (my workouts aren’t going to make me fat and they are apparently providing a stimulus for progression). If I’m gaining too much fat wouldn’t that almost entirely be due to cardio/diet related reasons? I don’t see how switching to from a program thats clearly providing progress to some metabolic conditioning whatever would be helpful (I don’t mean to sound stuck up there or anything at all, I value your advice, but who has gotten really big doing metabolic workouts and the like?).

I don’t doubt at all that being lean is better, but I’ve personally never been below 10% and have found that 1. It takes me a very long time to cut fat and 2. after awhile or if I try to speed things up with more cardio/less calories my strength stalls and things just suck…progression stops. I don’t mind being above 10%, I just wish it wouldn’t keep going up so fast while I gain muscle.

[/quote]

Good advice here from Paul…

Pumped, if you are cool with your fat % then I agree…no need to change the routine. that said, I did a four day program while dieting. Two days were heavy lifting: Back and Chest on one and Quads and Hams on the other. The other two workouts were circuit in nature and similar to German Body Composition Training. I did no direct arm or shoulder work outside of the circuits. My strength stayed up the entire diet and I had to really kill myself with HIIT cardio sessions to get the weight to drop. My point is that I thought circuit/GBCT type training would make me shrink in a hurry and it never happened. I plan to keep on workout a week reserved for circuit training even through the off-season.

Paul, I am 5’6"…so one of those vertically challenged bodybuilders :slight_smile:

355

[quote]Mark74 wrote:

Good advice here from Paul…

Pumped, if you are cool with your fat % then I agree…no need to change the routine. that said, I did a four day program while dieting. Two days were heavy lifting: Back and Chest on one and Quads and Hams on the other. The other two workouts were circuit in nature and similar to German Body Composition Training. I did no direct arm or shoulder work outside of the circuits. My strength stayed up the entire diet and I had to really kill myself with HIIT cardio sessions to get the weight to drop. My point is that I thought circuit/GBCT type training would make me shrink in a hurry and it never happened. I plan to keep on workout a week reserved for circuit training even through the off-season.

Paul, I am 5’6"…so one of those vertically challenged bodybuilders :)[/quote]

Oh I have no doubt it could be helpful for fat loss and won’t really make you lose muscle if you’re keeping strength up with other workouts. I’m looking at it more from an effective muscle building standpoint. Other than adding more cardio I don’t know what else would really be effective

Pauli, DH and Mark, what’s your experience with adding PWO incline walking or something like that for 20min. after workouts? That would by far be the most convenient method for me as I don’t have the time to go to the gym more frequently not, but could add 20min. at the end of 2-3 of my workouts as long as it didn’t impair recovery.

Got a comment from my dad today that I looked too thin, actually made me happy because I felt like I could gain longer before looking “fat” or that I needed to cut. Then my sister calls me chubby when I had my shirt off lol, so I’ve come to the conclusion that I must be skinny fat :smiley:

356

stats - 260pounds 35%bf

goals - lose fat and get down to 5-10%bf as quick as possible (not worried about muscle loss – want to lose they weight and get healthy, once bf is low, will start more of a strength/mass phase)

macro breakdown: (using 2,000 cals until weight loss halts)

monday-saturday
200g pro (40%)
25g cho ( 5%)
122g fat (55%)

sunday (carbup)
75g pro (15%)
275g cho (55%)
78g fat (30%)

should macros be a bit different?

are my cals too low? (keep in mind… I AM 35% BF)

how does this look for you guys. i figured a 24hr carbup for my high bodyfat would be a better choice than the 48hr. figured the more fat your are… the less carbs to stay away from to prevent fat buildup.

one thing i dont get is the whole depletion training. with the whole equation for a workout, its sounds foreign :o enlighten me.

357

You won’t need to do depletion training. Depletion training only applies if you have glycogen buildup from carbs, which is anathema to this diet.

You’ll be doing something similar, in a way, but your body will be burning fats instead. As far as your cals, if you can stick to 2000 calories per day, then you’ll be fine. HOWEVER, after about a month, if your losses have really started to definitively taper, you should take a week or so of higher calories to prevent your body from adapting to the low calories by slowing down your normal metabolism.

If you’re looking for what kind of training to do, there have been a few posts about that recently in this thread. I like using Escalating Density Training and Sprint Intervals to keep my body burning while getting a little bigger and a little stronger. Thibs also has a good article on hypermetabolism (Strength Training, Bodybuilding & Online Supplement Store - T NATION) which will also set you straight, although you need to have the right gym setup in order to do some of those circuits.

Just train hard, make your body burn fat to work for you. Even if all you do is add 20 minutes of sprint intervals on a treadmill at the end of a workout, you’ll burn fat at this point.

358

so do you think i should higher my cals?

359

It depends on how you react. If you’re eatting 2000 cals but by the end of the day you’re crawling up the wall in hunger then you’re BEGGING to fall off the wagon big-time.

If you can eat 2000 cals and be fine, then go for it. It’ll speed up your fat loss so long as your body doesn’t start shutting things down to compensate.

360

maybe do the 12calsxbodyweight as suggested? but this will put me 800 cals over my BMR…