My Current Routine

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
1

Goal: Lean body mass retention during fat loss

Day 1
Pullups 2x8, Chinups 2x8
Military Press 5x5
Dips 5x5
Decline Weighted Situps 6x5
Seated Bike 30 Min

Day 2
Bench Press 5x5
Cable Rows 5x5
Trap Bar Shrugs 5x5
Barbell Curls 5x5
Seated Bike 30 Min

Day 3
ATG Squats 5x5
Calf Raises 5x5
Stiff Legged Deadlifts 5x5
Forearm Roller 2x8 forward, 2x8 reverse
Seated Bike 30 Min

Day 4
Off

My Routine is working well in that overall strength levels are rising and lean body mass seems to be holding steady, but a little feedback never hurt. Comments anyone?

2

If anything, I might advocate HIIT instead of steady state cardio for “lean body mass retention during fat loss”.

It is less catabolic then traditional steady state cardio.

3

I do steady state for compliance reasons mostly, it’s pretty easy to sit down in front of the TV and zone out till I’m done. Is this optimum? Possibly not, but it’s something I know I’ll do every workout rain or shine.

Having said that, I’m not sure HIIT would be the best choice anyways. Yes, you burn more calories per unit time, but you also tax your recovery system more, and during a calorie deficit, I’m not sure that’s a good idea.

4

I go 3 days a week, TBT with HIIT sandwiched in the off days. I understand what your saying though. My routine is a bit more conducive to HIIT then yours, which appears be be 3 on 1 off.

5

If nobody ever told you that you were supposed to lose muscle when you lost fat, would you train any different?

6

I burned megatons of fat with a really simple system. Forthcoming…

Yours looks a lot like Joel Marion’s Ripped, Rugged, and Dense.

But personally I think you’re wasting valuable gym time, and THAT taxes recovery. Seriously, screw weighted situps 6x5, 2x8 forearm roller, and 5x5 barbell curls. You aren’t gonna be putting muscle on your arms during fat loss, and there are better ways to maintain it.

Basically what I did was the A-B split that Staley wrote an article about here. I wanted to take some time off from the gym, and I have a bench and 200lb of weights at home. But this worked great.

Workout A:
Complex
3 sets of 3 of these (3 minutes rest between sets�??decrease rest by 20 seconds each time):
add 2.5 pounds per week

Pull
Bent-over row
High pull from hang
Hang clean
Front squat
Push press with slow eccentric to behind head
Calf raises (3)
Reverse Lunges (2)
Back squat
Push press with slow eccentric to front
Calf raises (3)
Bent-over row
Lower

Workout B:
Total body

A Overhead squats 3x5 120s rest
B1 Chin-ups 3x8
B2 Unilateral SLDL 3x8 45s rest
C1 Reverse-grip bench press 3x3 60s rest
C2 Bent-over rows 3x3 60s

Day 1 Workout A
Day 2 Off
Day 3: Workout B
Day 4: Off
Day 5: Workout A
Day 6 & 7: Off

Next week B-A-B
Week 3: A-B-A

It may look complicated but it is really easy to learn. You do the barbell complex with no rest between exercises, same weight on all of em…I was using about 120lb. That means less than 15 min per workout, as low as 9-10 on the last week. You will be conditioned for battle, too. 162 reps with 120 lb in 10-15 minutes means 1 rep every four seconds!

Also, take it from me, you don’t need much volume to maintain strength and size. You will get burnt the heck out if you’re natural and doing 3 on, 1 off, 5x5 on 'most everything.

7

Not sure I totally understood your question Scott. It’s only since coming to T-Nation that I even realized losing muscle mass was possible when dieting. Prior to that I always thought that calorie restriction + cardio was fine, and that weight lifting was only if you wanted to look “buff”. The difference in my progress has been significant to say the least.

8

Also, the beauty of the system I just posted is that you have a good balance of strength training and fat burning. Those are not the same thing. You really need a metabolic session AND a strength-oriented session if you’re that concerned about both fat loss and LBM retention. In other words, if you’re going to be concentrating on fat loss for more than 4 weeks.

I also threw in random metabolic work that was just plain fun. I became a conditioned machine…hill sprints, punching bag work, jump roping, medicine ball toss’n’sprint, jumping jacks, burpee variations, Tabata…

For me the best/most fun way to lose fat was to minimize my in-the-gym time, get in the right amount of “maintenance” work, and just do whatever kind of conditioning/metabolic work I felt like doing that day. The BB complex is the meat and potatoes though.

Tell me what you think.

9

Long post Conwict, but I’ll try and hit some high points:

  1. Joel Marion’s Ripped, Rugged, and Dense:

Just looked it up again, and you’re right they do seem pretty similar. Basically my intent was to have one lift for each motion pattern, and make sure every major muscle in my body was hit. I tend to prefer a dense physique, and like the old school basics. I essentially just made a list of all the “best” exercises, rounded it out a little, and that’s my routine. I’ve played around with several different set/rep parameters, and 5x5 seems to be a good choice. I use 4x8 when I’m doing some sort of alternation as it divides evenly.

  1. Wasting Gym time:

I actually do weighted situps because it helps me with my SL deadlifts. My core is pretty wimpy after doing a desk job for years.

As for training biceps and forearms, that’s quite a bit of muscle mass to be ignoring, especially when it’s one of the few areas thats visible when you’re wearing a t-shirt. The forearm work also helps me with my captain of crush grip training. (I didn’t list it as it’s sort of as available while on the phone at work, not really scheduled)

  1. Complexes:

I work out in my home gym, which while very well equipped doesn’t have enough bars and plates for the routine you’re suggesting. Besides, in my opinion, complexes are more for training strength endurance, which is not a quality I’m interested in. As metabolic work they’re fine, but not optimal.

As a side note, I don’t have the equipment, room, or training to do olympic lifts. They have a number of very positive qualities, but for aesthetics oriented training, I think they’re over-rated.

  1. Total body training:

To me, the routine you outlined looks unbalanced with low loading. No overhead pressing, reverse grip bench, Unilateral deadlifts?

  1. Burning out as a natural trainee:

To the best of my understanding, proper volume for a natural trainee is 15-25 exercises per week. I was doing a 4 on 1 off program that resulted in 16.8 exercises per week, and I recently shortened it to my current 3 on 1 off program which ups the density to 21 exercises per week. This seems well within my ability to recover given my current exercise selections.

I’m endo-mesomorphic, so low volume programs are usually a poor choice for me. I can be big and fat, or big and muscular, but there is no tiny me.

  1. 5x5 sets:

I find that doing 5x5 straight sets and using fractional plates for progression makes it very easy to keep moving forward regularly. If I’m doing something where it’s harder to adjust the weight, then I usually add sets for progression until I’m ready for the next big jump up.

10

Responding to 3)…the whole point is to use one bar. Toss two 35’s on a 45 pound bar and you’re ready to go. One bar only. Simple as it gets. You pick up the bar and do one rep of all the listed exercises, then go through the sequence two more times. That’s one set. Repeat two more times for a total of three sets of three “reps”.

Re: “ignoring” biceps and forearms, I think there’s nothing wrong with direct, single-joint work if you really feel you need it. But unless you’re pretty freakin’ good at putting on muscle mass, you probably won’t be putting it on during a fat loss phase if you’re dieting properly.

If you aren’t dieting properly into a hypocaloric state, you aren’t really training primarily for fat loss. Some rows, chins, and pulls should really do more than adequately to maintain your forearm and biceps mass. If you don’t believe me, okay, but have you ever taken a leap of faith and gone without the direct arm work during fat loss? If you have special reason to think your arms are prone to atrophy, okay - if not, I think you’re wasting time with it during a fat loss phase.

As far as burning out, I tend to think more in total volume (reps per week) than exercises per week. More of a gut feel I got from your program, that lots of heavy lifting would burn you out if you’re in a low-carb, low-calorie state. That’s awesome if you can handle it, the question is could you burn more calories and lose more with a different setup? I just don’t see you burning many calories or going into the “afterburn” state as Cosgrove calls it (EPOC).

The job of the “heavy” day here was to balance out what was missed in the A or Complexes day. IE, horizontal push, vertical pull, heavy hamstrings work, heavy squatting. If you look at the volume breakdown, I think it’s fairly high volume factoring in the complexes, and pretty well balanced as well. There is overhead pressing in the complexes day.

Of course, I tend to take an approach to fat loss that is heavily influenced by Dan John, Cosgrove and Waterbury. That is, you can’t do too many things at once, so really focus on burning calories; do the minimum amount of heavy lifting required to maintain mass. It’s worked for me in the past, and hopefully whatever you do will work for you.

I will say this though: consider progression vis-a-vis increasing workout density and volume of the reps before you increase loading across the board. Unless you’re truly an anomaly, adding weight to all those big compounds during that kind of training will fry your CNS in a matter of 3-4 weeks. Provided you’re on a proper diet; again, if you’re not why call it fat loss?

11

Note- I see you are beyond your 20s, which might mean SOME direct arm training is sensible…I don’t remember clearly enough to drag out a link, but some authors here were discussing the propensity toward wasting in older trainees’ arms. However I’d still think heavy compounds with a few oriented toward your arms (close grip chins and/or rows) would suffice.

If you want some good ideas, why not check out 10x3 for fat loss by Waterbury, or Real Fast Fat Loss. I really do think more metabolic work and a bit less strength training would do ya well, but you may disagree.

12

[quote]blue9steel wrote:
Not sure I totally understood your question Scott. It’s only since coming to T-Nation that I even realized losing muscle mass was possible when dieting. Prior to that I always thought that calorie restriction + cardio was fine, and that weight lifting was only if you wanted to look “buff”. The difference in my progress has been significant to say the least.[/quote]

I think I’ve got a pretty good idea what Scott is getting at, but I’ll let him address it.

I’ll just ask you a related question and see if it helps you in understanding Scotts question.

What causes a decrease in body fat? It’s a really simple answer (2 words), don’t overcomplicate it.

13

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
What causes a decrease in body fat? It’s a really simple answer (2 words), don’t overcomplicate it.[/quote]

Actually it’s not possible to answer that question in two words. A decrease in body WEIGHT is caused by a calorie deficit, but it turns out that’s not the same thing as a decrease in body FAT.

14

[quote]conwict wrote:
If you aren’t dieting properly into a hypocaloric state, you aren’t really training primarily for fat loss.
[/quote]

Quite true. This post was merely about my routine, and didn’t include any details about my diet. My weekly calorie deficit is about 3600 calories.

My experience has shown that muscles always do better with direct work, it’s just a balance of work capacity/time as to whether doing specialization for them is worthwhile. Since my whole program is based on increasing my aesthetics, and I have no interest in powerlifting, MMA, or athletics of any kind, then I think it’s appropriate. If I was training for a different purpose I’d definitely have a different setup.

Kind of amusing actually, i upped my volume because last time I posted on my 4 on 1 off schedule people were saying I didn’t have enough. So far I feel like I’m getting good results from the increased volume, but I’m keeping a close eye on my indicators (recovery, tiredness, progress, etc.) to make sure it’s not too much. I do feel that additional volume would not be appropriate.

I’m not doing low carb, though it often comes out that way since I’m doing insulin management. I pay attention to carb quality and timing very carefully. I even have a blood sugar tester I’ve been using to make Insulin response graphs for my various recipes.

Well, I don’t have an EPOC meter, but I’m definitely at a higher metabolism after working out, I get that “warm” feeling that it’s generally associated with.

Nothing wrong with that, but it’s not the approach I favor, I usually listen more to the FFBs like Thibaudeau. Generally the theory is that lifting is pretty much the same on a cut or bulk, with diet being the main difference. (As always it’s a bit more complicated than that, but no point in writing a 20 page essay about it.)

I think you’re misunderstanding what I’m talking about with regards to loading. For example, this week I added 1.5lbs to my deadlift. I use fractional plates, and don’t go to failure, so I feel my CNS is doing just fine.

I do appreciate all the feedback, but it seems we have very different training philosophies.

15

[quote]blue9steel wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
What causes a decrease in body fat? It’s a really simple answer (2 words), don’t overcomplicate it.

Actually it’s not possible to answer that question in two words. A decrease in body WEIGHT is caused by a calorie deficit, but it turns out that’s not the same thing as a decrease in body FAT.[/quote]

Why is that? What do you think that body fat is? It’s stored energy (and the most efficient form). When you eat less calories than you burn your body taps into it’s stored energy sources (if it can it will use fat). The result is a decrease in bf.

Now, yes, it will use glycogen and possibly even muscle (depending on how low below maintenance you go), but once again if possible it will use fat as it’s primary energy source (since it is the most energy dense and efficient).

Now as far as training, I had a nice long reply on that topic, but I really don’t want to steal Scott’s thunder, so I’ll let him elaborate on that.

16

If it were as simple as you’re suggesting, then there would be no reason to lift weights. A simple calorie deficit would take care of everything, and that’s certainly not true.

Losing fat involves a calorie deficit, but it also involves convincing the body to use up the energy reserves rather than break down muscle tissue, or downshift metabolism. Hence the lifting of weights, and more sophisticated dietary schemes.

17

[quote]blue9steel wrote:
If it were as simple as you’re suggesting, then there would be no reason to lift weights. A simple calorie deficit would take care of everything, and that’s certainly not true.
[/quote]

No, not everything, just fat loss. You still need to give the body a reason to hold onto/build muscle. A caloric deficit will actually be enough to decrease body fat, people do it all the time. Lifting weights/cardio will simply increase the caloric needs, ensure that calories are being used for repair/exercise and increase metabolic rate.

[quote]
Losing fat involves a calorie deficit, but it also involves convincing the body to use up the energy reserves rather than break down muscle tissue, or downshift metabolism. Hence the lifting of weights, and more sophisticated dietary schemes.[/quote]

Well, yes that’s true to an extent (though the body will use it’s adipose tissue if possible since it is much more calorie dense and is the primary fuel for aerobic metabolism before it’ll use muscle in most cases). But that doesn’t necessarily mean that you need to change your resistance training methods to cause a decrease in bf.

18

Keep going Sentoguy, no thunder stolen.

19

[quote]blue9steel wrote:
Goal: Lean body mass retention during fat loss

[/quote]

My main problem was this. Why don’t you continue doing what you were before to gain size(assuming it was working) and make minor changes in the diet and cardio to do the bodyfat reduction for you?

Goal: Continue to gain lean body mass as I slowly strip off some fat

Let’s try that one :slight_smile:

20

[quote]Scott M wrote:
blue9steel wrote:
Goal: Lean body mass retention during fat loss

My main problem was this. Why don’t you continue doing what you were before to gain size(assuming it was working) and make minor changes in the diet and cardio to do the bodyfat reduction for you?

Goal: Continue to gain lean body mass as I slowly strip off some fat
Let’s try that one :)[/quote]

Sorry for the mis-communication, but I am doing the same thing now as I was previously. I agree with you, workout shouldn’t change much between cutting/bulking, mostly just alterations in diet/cardio.