Muslim Woman Competes in Weightlifting

[Brother_Chris]

[quote]zahmad wrote:

[quote]bcingu wrote:

[quote]zahmad wrote:
If we have freedom then why does one have to choose between the two without compelling reason? I could understand if there’s true justification for it, but if it’s just to rule out supportive gear a female judge could check her in private to ensure there was no supportive gear and then move on with the competition.[/quote]

Are you saying it’s impossible for a woman to practice Islam without wearing hijab?[/quote]

It’s a requirement of the faith.[/quote]

Sauce.

[zahmad]

[quote]Stern wrote:

[quote]zahmad wrote:
You don’t think that there is a possibility that some judges in the IWF/USAW might have anti-muslim bias? I don’t think that is the case, but I wouldn’t dismiss it either.

The fact is that Muslims, including Muslim women that wear the hijab, are a growing population in America and it behooves us as Americans to work towards being inclusive of them in more than just things that are Constitutional rights.[/quote]

While you raise a fair point - it is this woman’s choice to compete, not right, as many others have said. When you belong to a faith which decrees a certain dress code and conduct it is your responsibility to uphold that code regardless of the consequences. Or, you can choose to forego that code, however briefly, in order to take part in an activity which you may otherwise be exempt from. It’s a choice, but the only one making her compete against her religion is herself.

The Muslim dress code keeps coming up in controversy all over the world and the pro-argument that banning it (in schools and the like) is an oppression really confuses the debate when even the Muslim world is divided over its neccesity. I mean honestly, what is your opinion; if she were intent on going ahead with the competition under it’s current ruleset would she actually be endangering her faith? Or would it be her credibility in the Muslim community that would come under fire?

Bottom line is, as Andy above said - the rules are actually in place for a good reason and excluding religious competitors isn’t one of them. The onus is on her to choose between the two.

[/quote]

I agree that if the judge cannot tell if she is cheating because of her attire then that is a valid reason for not allowing it. But they should facilitate the opportunity to determine if that is the case or not. And on her website (FAQ) she explains how the judges can determine their rulings even with her religious apparel on: http://www.liftingcovered.com/

As you mentioned, it is her choice, and by appealing to the IWF/USAW to allow her to wear the hijab while competing, she has already made that choice. In reality she probably could have gone to that competition, taken off her hijab and competed and she would probably be the only Muslim that knew. She chose not to do that because SHE holds the hijab at that level, and she is an American and a Phd in Engineering, not some third-world village girl. I don’t think her credibility in the Muslim community is really a big issue, its about her personal faith and belief in the hijab. Many Muslim women in the US don’t wear hijab, but they are not scrutinized by the Muslim community for it. There’s no one standing at the entry of the mosque making sure that only hijab-wearing women are allowed in. There really isn’t a “divide” in the Muslim world over the requirement of the hijab, the countries that have banned hijab are European (ie France) or secular Middle Eastern countries, and many Muslim women there still wear hijab.

[Sterneneisen]

You know Zahmad, I find it very funny to see muslim women with their head covered but wearing spandex or very tight jeans…
I find that a lot more “immodest” and, let’s say “exciting” than not having the head covered. Somehow, I think most men will find that being perfectly able to see the shape of a woman’s legs and glutes is much more “interesting” than being able to see her hair…

A ~council should issue a fatwa that spandex is immodest… if only to prevent people from ROFL-ing when they see muslim women wearing spandex and a head cover…

(and yes, I’ve seen plenty, especially the younger women)

[Charlie_Horse]

This is the link to what is required for the competitors to wear.

http://www.qwa.org/articles/rules.asp

I’m just going to quote the part about the outfits.

The Competitors Outfit

Costume

Competitors must wear clothing which is clean, designed and worn to comply with the following:

A one-piece close-fitting costume which covers the trunk and hips and does not cover the knees or elbows and is collarless. A lifting costume may be of any colour.
A collarless T shirt may be worn under the costume but the sleeves may not cover the elbows.
Close fitting leotard/cycling type shorts may be worn under or over the costume. They must not cover the knees
a T shirt and trunks can not be worn in place of a costume.*

• For local non-championship events referees may permit shorts and T shirt provided they are not objectionable.

Weightlifting Shoes

1. The competitors must wear sports shoes (called weightlifting shoes) to protect their feet and give them stability and a firm stance on the competition platform. See diagram below.

2. The weightlifting shoes must be made in such a way as not to give the athlete an unfair advantage or additional support other than is hereby specified.

3. A strap over the instep is permitted.

4. The part of the shoe that covers the heel may be re-inforced.

5. The maximum height permitted on the upper part of the shoe, measured from the top of the sole, is 130 mm.

6. The sole cannot project from the shoe by more than 5 mm at any point.

7. The heel of the shoe must not be tapered.

8. The shoes may be made of any material or combination of materials.

9. There are no minimum or maximum heights for the soles.

10. There are no restrictions for the shape of the shoes.

Belt

1. The maximum width of the belt worn may be 120 mm at its widest part.

2. No belt can be worn under the competitors costume.

Bandages and Plasters

1. Bandages may be worn on wrists, the knees, the hands, the fingers and the thumbs.

2. The bandages may be made of gauze, medical crepe or leather. A one piece elastic bandage may be worn on the knee.

3. The maximum width of skin that can be covered at the wrists is 100 mm.

4. The maximum width of skin that can be covered at the knees is 300mm.

5. There is no limit for the length of the bandages.

6. The use of plasters and bandages on both inner and outer surface of the hands is allowed. These plasters or bandages, however, can be fastened to the wrists but not the barbell.

7. Plasters on fingers are allowed, but cannot cover the tips of the fingers.

8. No bandages or substitute bandages are allowed on the following parts of the body

   a) the elbows b) the torso c) the thighs d) the shins

9. Only one type of bandage may be worn on any section of the body.

There are lots of ways to cheat I guess so they need to be sure she is complying it also helps with judging the completion of the lift.

If her religion is more important then lifting that’s fine, there are lots of things in life more important than lifting(it’s just a sport). She should just get over it.
The only thing stopping her from competing is her religion.

[alexus]

i found something once on the evolution of the weightlifting suit. it got fairly skimpy (speedo-like bottom and singlet didn’t really cover nipples) but then when women started participating more it became more modest. which is kinda odd since volleyball is kinda renowned for the skimpy outfits…

in a way spandex isn’t modest… but in a way spandex is modest in the sense that it stays put so you can focus on what you are doing rather than what your clothes are doing…

i’d be a whole lot happier if weightlifting allowed a fuller bodied suit that did cover elbows and knees. check people for assistive gear or whatever… i just find that short sleeves and legs have a tendency to ride up whereas longer stuff stays put.

i do think it is time we rethought sporting attire more generally. form for function rather than porn would be a lot more respectful to the female athlete.

[alexus]

not that the female attire is any skimpier for weightlifting than the guys… weightlifting is kinda more equalized in that way… maybe because it is only recently an olympic sport. i don’t know.

i just think of things that happen… like with alison stokkie (or however you spell her name). just doing her sport… participating seriously as an athlete… then people start making comments about how hot she is and how they want to bang her and stuff. the hijab is (in women who CHOOSE to wear it anyway) at least sometimes chosen for its message ‘i do not wish to be sexually evaluated / objectified’. i respect that decision and think it is a shame that sport (and other arenas) aren’t more accommodating to it (important part now) INSOFAR as it doesn’t outweigh other considerations (e.g., check that assistive gear isn’t being hidden).

[jward7892]

[quote]bcingu wrote:
This raises an interesting question of how much a given society (or group) is expected to bend to a person (or group), and vice versa. I personally think this is taking things too far. Competing in OL is not a natural right, and it is very disingenuous of the people referenced in the article to imply that USAW’s rules are bigoted for having certain dress regulations.[/quote]
x2, it would start a bad precedent if religions were allowed to start “overriding” rules and regulations of other parts of society

[biglifter]

[quote]alexus wrote:
i found something once on the evolution of the weightlifting suit. it got fairly skimpy (speedo-like bottom and singlet didn’t really cover nipples) but then when women started participating more it became more modest. which is kinda odd since volleyball is kinda renowned for the skimpy outfits…

in a way spandex isn’t modest… but in a way spandex is modest in the sense that it stays put so you can focus on what you are doing rather than what your clothes are doing…

i’d be a whole lot happier if weightlifting allowed a fuller bodied suit that did cover elbows and knees. check people for assistive gear or whatever… i just find that short sleeves and legs have a tendency to ride up whereas longer stuff stays put.

i do think it is time we rethought sporting attire more generally. form for function rather than porn would be a lot more respectful to the female athlete.[/quote]

Regulation attire should have nothing to do with the respectfulness or comfort of the lifter. It’s in place for the benefit of judging and to ensure lifters adhere to a common standard during competition. A singlet riding up my ass isn’t exactly a huge concern when I’m staring at 600lbs. that needs to be moved off the floor.

[Theface]

^^ Amen

[zahmad]

If one must choose religion over sport than that sport should not claim that it does not discriminate based on religion.

[Testy1]

[quote]zahmad wrote:
If one must choose religion over sport than that sport should not claim that it does not discriminate based on religion.[/quote]

It doesn’t discriminate based on religion. It requires a certain uniform, wear the uniform or don’t participate. You can’t lift in a Santa suit either.

[zahmad]

She is Muslim. She has to cover herself. The sport says you can’t compete if you cover yourself. Therefore a Muslim woman cannot compete. That’s discrimination.

That is the right of the sport to select a uniform if they want. But they should not claim that they don’t discriminate based on religion when the uniform prohibits people of certain religions to participate.

[PB_Andy]

[quote]zahmad wrote:
She is Muslim. She has to cover herself. The sport says you can’t compete if you cover yourself. Therefore a Muslim woman cannot compete. That’s discrimination.

That is the right of the sport to select a uniform if they want. But they should not claim that they don’t discriminate based on religion when the uniform prohibits people of certain religions to participate.

[/quote]
you’re just biased right now. The rules are made on the basis of cheating, not on the basis of fucking religion. end fucking thread.

[debraD]

[quote]zahmad wrote:
She is Muslim. She has to cover herself. The sport says you can’t compete if you cover yourself. Therefore a Muslim woman cannot compete. …

[/quote]

Then it’s against her religion to compete as a weightlifter. She should pursue more modest activities better suited to Muslim women.

[debraD]

I’m wondering if this is another HH job…

[zahmad]

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]zahmad wrote:
She is Muslim. She has to cover herself. The sport says you can’t compete if you cover yourself. Therefore a Muslim woman cannot compete. …

[/quote]

Then it’s against her religion to compete as a weightlifter. She should pursue more modest activities better suited to Muslim women.[/quote]

Or you don’t know the definition of discrimination.

[debraD]

[quote]zahmad wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]zahmad wrote:
She is Muslim. She has to cover herself. The sport says you can’t compete if you cover yourself. Therefore a Muslim woman cannot compete. …

[/quote]

Then it’s against her religion to compete as a weightlifter. She should pursue more modest activities better suited to Muslim women.[/quote]

Or you don’t know the definition of discrimination.[/quote]

Or I do know it and you’re trying to skew it.

You can’t participate because you are Muslim. → Discrimination
You can’t participate because there are arbitrary rules that serve no purpose that violates a tenet of your faith. → discrimination
You can’t participate because there are rules in place that enable the competitors to be fairly judged but this conflicts with an interpretation of a tenet of your faith. → Not discrimination

[zahmad]

[quote]PB Andy wrote:

[quote]zahmad wrote:
She is Muslim. She has to cover herself. The sport says you can’t compete if you cover yourself. Therefore a Muslim woman cannot compete. That’s discrimination.

That is the right of the sport to select a uniform if they want. But they should not claim that they don’t discriminate based on religion when the uniform prohibits people of certain religions to participate.

[/quote]
you’re just biased right now. The rules are made on the basis of cheating, not on the basis of fucking religion. end fucking thread.[/quote]

I’m not being biased. The organization says it doesn’t discriminate based on religion. If a nun wanted to compete and asked to dress modestly I would feel the same way for her.

I understand the rule being made on the basis of cheating, and I agree with you (as I mentioned before) that if they cannot determine if she is cheating then it is a valid argument. But she has described a way for them to determine that and they should at least give her the opportunity to determine if she can compete covered. When they take away the opportunity, then that is discrimination.

[PB_Andy]

[quote]zahmad wrote:

[quote]PB Andy wrote:

[quote]zahmad wrote:
She is Muslim. She has to cover herself. The sport says you can’t compete if you cover yourself. Therefore a Muslim woman cannot compete. That’s discrimination.

That is the right of the sport to select a uniform if they want. But they should not claim that they don’t discriminate based on religion when the uniform prohibits people of certain religions to participate.

[/quote]
you’re just biased right now. The rules are made on the basis of cheating, not on the basis of fucking religion. end fucking thread.[/quote]

I’m not being biased. The organization says it doesn’t discriminate based on religion. If a nun wanted to compete and asked to dress modestly I would feel the same way for her.

I understand the rule being made on the basis of cheating, and I agree with you (as I mentioned before) that if they cannot determine if she is cheating then it is a valid argument. But she has described a way for them to determine that and they should at least give her the opportunity to determine if she can compete covered. When they take away the opportunity, then that is discrimination.[/quote]
Well, sure, they could probably allow her to wear some type of compression type thing, so they can clearly see her elbows and knees. But if she refuses to do that, too bad.

[PB_Andy]

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]zahmad wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]zahmad wrote:
She is Muslim. She has to cover herself. The sport says you can’t compete if you cover yourself. Therefore a Muslim woman cannot compete. …

[/quote]

Then it’s against her religion to compete as a weightlifter. She should pursue more modest activities better suited to Muslim women.[/quote]

Or you don’t know the definition of discrimination.[/quote]

Or I do know it and you’re trying to skew it.

You can’t participate because you are Muslim. → Discrimination
You can’t participate because there are arbitrary rules that serve no purpose that violates a tenet of your faith. → discrimination
You can’t participate because there are rules in place that enable the competitors to be fairly judged but this conflicts with an interpretation of a tenet of your faith. → Not discrimination
[/quote]
OK I lied, now we can end thread.