Muslim Woman Competes in Weightlifting

Off Topic
21

[quote]zahmad wrote:
Not going to debate that here. I’m sure you can google as well as I can.[/quote]

If you don’t wish to debate it then I certainly won’t force you. But for the record, I did not pose the question due to my not knowing its answer.

The Qur’an never explicitly mentions hijab. In fact, certain Muslim countries (Syria, Tunisia, Turkey) ban hijab.

Anecdotally, a close friend of mine is a practicing Muslim, and she does not wear hijab. She believes the Qur’an simply instructs women to dress modestly.

22

Maybe she could PL in an outlaw federation where it doesn’t matter what gear you use.

23

[quote]jasmincar wrote:
I will add that in the arab world the hijab wasn’t widespread in the 60-70’s. It came back in the 80’s and is now making a huge comeback for us non-retarded people to enjoy and get a taste of the new middle-age that is coming.

[/quote]

Good point.

24

They probably want bare elbows to more easily judge press-outs as well.

I think in this case they could probably bend the rules a little…I imagine a tight long-sleeved shirt might do the trick. But if the clothes really are a big issue for the judges, then fuck off. Nobody should have to cater to your whacky religion if it means compromising the integrity of the sport.

25

Those countries that banned hijab actually have large groups of women who are fighting against the ban. The fact that hijab gets banned kinda tells you that there’s something wrong there when you take away a person’s choice/right to cover their head in an effort to become modern or secular (regardless of whether or not the faith requires hijab).

As far as I know, it is consensus among all the major Islamic schools of thought that hijab is a requirement of the faith, and the Quran alone is not the only text that dictates the requirements of the faith, as the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad must also be considered (as stated in the Quran). The Quran does mention hijab using the word “khimar” which means head covering and also says to dress modestly. Some Muslim women may not wear the hijab, and they are human beings with free will and choose to do whatever they want to, but it doesn’t change the requirement in the religion.

Just giving you my understanding, not to debate you/your friend.

26

If the rules are there to protect the integrity of the competition then the woman should either follow the rules or find a new sport.

27

GAL and PWI all rolled into one.

28

[quote]debraD wrote:
If the rules are there to protect the integrity of the competition then the woman should either follow the rules or find a new sport. [/quote]

and how about when she goes to play the new sport and isn’t allowed to play that either because its not the uniform?

Not saying the integrity of the competition should be broken, but that there should be an attempt at finding a solution that allow her to practice her beliefs and partake in the competition.

29

[quote]zahmad wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:
If the rules are there to protect the integrity of the competition then the woman should either follow the rules or find a new sport. [/quote]

and how about when she goes to play the new sport and isn’t allowed to play that either because its not the uniform?

Not saying the integrity of the competition should be broken, but that there should be an attempt at finding a solution that allow her to practice her beliefs and partake in the competition.[/quote]

Like I said IF the rules protect the integrity of the sport then it’s just unfortunate. If they don’t then get rid of them, for everyone.

There was a thread here a while ago about a kid who forfeited a wrestling match because his opponent was female and his religion prevented him. Those are the rules and while unfortunate for the guy that was a choice he had to make. It’s a sacrifice for the faith.

Wouldn’t getting decked out in spandex go against the intent of the religion? Spandex isn’t exactly modest.

30

[quote]zahmad wrote:
Those countries that banned hijab actually have large groups of women who are fighting against the ban. The fact that hijab gets banned kinda tells you that there’s something wrong there when you take away a person’s choice/right to cover their head in an effort to become modern or secular (regardless of whether or not the faith requires hijab).

As far as I know, it is consensus among all the major Islamic schools of thought that hijab is a requirement of the faith, and the Quran alone is not the only text that dictates the requirements of the faith, as the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad must also be considered (as stated in the Quran). The Quran does mention hijab using the word “khimar” which means head covering and also says to dress modestly. Some Muslim women may not wear the hijab, and they are human beings with free will and choose to do whatever they want to, but it doesn’t change the requirement in the religion.

Just giving you my understanding, not to debate you/your friend.

[/quote]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the khimar mentioned in sura 24:31, in which women are basically instructed to cover their chests/private areas?

And we agree on the general modesty aspect. Could a woman even dress modestly while competing in a singlet? Even if it were supplemented with a headscarf? I’ve competed in OL before, and they don’t leave a whole lot to the imagination. Seems to me like she would require an entirely different uniform. And when you have rules that fastidiously monitor minutia such as a slight elbow bend, or elbows making contact with the knees, or the butt making contact with the platform, that doesn’t seem very realistic.

31

[quote]bcingu wrote:

[quote]zahmad wrote:
Those countries that banned hijab actually have large groups of women who are fighting against the ban. The fact that hijab gets banned kinda tells you that there’s something wrong there when you take away a person’s choice/right to cover their head in an effort to become modern or secular (regardless of whether or not the faith requires hijab).

As far as I know, it is consensus among all the major Islamic schools of thought that hijab is a requirement of the faith, and the Quran alone is not the only text that dictates the requirements of the faith, as the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad must also be considered (as stated in the Quran). The Quran does mention hijab using the word “khimar” which means head covering and also says to dress modestly. Some Muslim women may not wear the hijab, and they are human beings with free will and choose to do whatever they want to, but it doesn’t change the requirement in the religion.

Just giving you my understanding, not to debate you/your friend.

[/quote]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the khimar mentioned in sura 24:31, in which women are basically instructed to cover their chests/private areas?

And we agree on the general modesty aspect. Could a woman even dress modestly while competing in a singlet? Even if it were supplemented with a headscarf? I’ve competed in OL before, and they don’t leave a whole lot to the imagination. Seems to me like she would require an entirely different uniform. And when you have rules that fastidiously monitor minutia such as a slight elbow bend, or elbows making contact with the knees, or the butt making contact with the platform, that doesn’t seem very realistic.[/quote]

The word khimar itself means head covering and in that sura it says that women must use the khimar to also cover their chest area. As I mentioned earlier, the Prophet’s teachings must also be considered, and those give more detail on what hijab entails.

If the rules of the competition require that much scrutiny, then yes it may not be possible to wear hijab and for proper judging to be done, but shouldn’t the effort to include all be made? If you take a look at what this weightlifter wears, she’s not wearing very loose robes, so she at least deserves the opportunity to demonstrate if the rules can be maintained. She has competed before, so there has been inclusion. Shouldn’t her national reps make this case for her ?

32

she should just cut holes in her outfit right over the elbows and the knees. Problem solved

You might look like you’re wearing a retarded ghost costume but oh well.

33

[quote]gregron wrote:
she should just cut holes in her outfit right over the elbows and the knees. Problem solved

You might look like you’re wearing a retarded ghost costume but oh well.[/quote]

LOL !

34

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]zahmad wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:
If the rules are there to protect the integrity of the competition then the woman should either follow the rules or find a new sport. [/quote]

and how about when she goes to play the new sport and isn’t allowed to play that either because its not the uniform?

Not saying the integrity of the competition should be broken, but that there should be an attempt at finding a solution that allow her to practice her beliefs and partake in the competition.[/quote]

Like I said IF the rules protect the integrity of the sport then it’s just unfortunate. If they don’t then get rid of them, for everyone.

There was a thread here a while ago about a kid who forfeited a wrestling match because his opponent was female and his religion prevented him. Those are the rules and while unfortunate for the guy that was a choice he had to make. It’s a sacrifice for the faith.

Wouldn’t getting decked out in spandex go against the intent of the religion? Spandex isn’t exactly modest.

[/quote]

What religion is it against to kick a woman’s ass?
Pretty much all of the major religions hold women at a lower class than men, so game on.
Or was it too lewd to roll around on the floor with a woman you aren’t married to?

35

[quote]zahmad wrote:

[quote]bcingu wrote:

[quote]zahmad wrote:
Those countries that banned hijab actually have large groups of women who are fighting against the ban. The fact that hijab gets banned kinda tells you that there’s something wrong there when you take away a person’s choice/right to cover their head in an effort to become modern or secular (regardless of whether or not the faith requires hijab).

As far as I know, it is consensus among all the major Islamic schools of thought that hijab is a requirement of the faith, and the Quran alone is not the only text that dictates the requirements of the faith, as the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad must also be considered (as stated in the Quran). The Quran does mention hijab using the word “khimar” which means head covering and also says to dress modestly. Some Muslim women may not wear the hijab, and they are human beings with free will and choose to do whatever they want to, but it doesn’t change the requirement in the religion.

Just giving you my understanding, not to debate you/your friend.

[/quote]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the khimar mentioned in sura 24:31, in which women are basically instructed to cover their chests/private areas?

And we agree on the general modesty aspect. Could a woman even dress modestly while competing in a singlet? Even if it were supplemented with a headscarf? I’ve competed in OL before, and they don’t leave a whole lot to the imagination. Seems to me like she would require an entirely different uniform. And when you have rules that fastidiously monitor minutia such as a slight elbow bend, or elbows making contact with the knees, or the butt making contact with the platform, that doesn’t seem very realistic.[/quote]

The word khimar itself means head covering and in that sura it says that women must use the khimar to also cover their chest area. As I mentioned earlier, the Prophet’s teachings must also be considered, and those give more detail on what hijab entails.

If the rules of the competition require that much scrutiny, then yes it may not be possible to wear hijab and for proper judging to be done, but shouldn’t the effort to include all be made? If you take a look at what this weightlifter wears, she’s not wearing very loose robes, so she at least deserves the opportunity to demonstrate if the rules can be maintained. She has competed before, so there has been inclusion. Shouldn’t her national reps make this case for her ?[/quote]

She has the right to make her case, but I don’t think it’s a particularly valid one. Lifting in USAW is a privilege, not a right, and those who choose to do so must abide by their rules. Not only do I think the rules should not be amended for her, but I think doing so would set something of a pernicious precedent.

If a Rastafarian wanted to compete in high-level OL, (s)he would have to get tested by USADA, an organisation that tests for, among other things, cannabinoids. Would USAW be expected to make special allowances for doping violations based on this lifter’s religion? (Ignoring the fact that testing for pot is kind of retarded).

What if an Orthodox Jew can’t lift on the Shabbat? Should USAW start scheduling meets for Sunday? Actually, that might not sit well with Christians. Hmmm…

My main concern is that USAW doesn’t receive accusations of having an anti-Muslim bias, because I think that is ludicrous.

36

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
These woman are middle eastern,eh?[/quote]

How turned on are you right now?[/quote]

I just ejaculated.

37

[quote]bcingu wrote:

[quote]zahmad wrote:

[quote]bcingu wrote:

[quote]zahmad wrote:
Those countries that banned hijab actually have large groups of women who are fighting against the ban. The fact that hijab gets banned kinda tells you that there’s something wrong there when you take away a person’s choice/right to cover their head in an effort to become modern or secular (regardless of whether or not the faith requires hijab).

As far as I know, it is consensus among all the major Islamic schools of thought that hijab is a requirement of the faith, and the Quran alone is not the only text that dictates the requirements of the faith, as the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad must also be considered (as stated in the Quran). The Quran does mention hijab using the word “khimar” which means head covering and also says to dress modestly. Some Muslim women may not wear the hijab, and they are human beings with free will and choose to do whatever they want to, but it doesn’t change the requirement in the religion.

Just giving you my understanding, not to debate you/your friend.

[/quote]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the khimar mentioned in sura 24:31, in which women are basically instructed to cover their chests/private areas?

And we agree on the general modesty aspect. Could a woman even dress modestly while competing in a singlet? Even if it were supplemented with a headscarf? I’ve competed in OL before, and they don’t leave a whole lot to the imagination. Seems to me like she would require an entirely different uniform. And when you have rules that fastidiously monitor minutia such as a slight elbow bend, or elbows making contact with the knees, or the butt making contact with the platform, that doesn’t seem very realistic.[/quote]

The word khimar itself means head covering and in that sura it says that women must use the khimar to also cover their chest area. As I mentioned earlier, the Prophet’s teachings must also be considered, and those give more detail on what hijab entails.

If the rules of the competition require that much scrutiny, then yes it may not be possible to wear hijab and for proper judging to be done, but shouldn’t the effort to include all be made? If you take a look at what this weightlifter wears, she’s not wearing very loose robes, so she at least deserves the opportunity to demonstrate if the rules can be maintained. She has competed before, so there has been inclusion. Shouldn’t her national reps make this case for her ?[/quote]

She has the right to make her case, but I don’t think it’s a particularly valid one. Lifting in USAW is a privilege, not a right, and those who choose to do so must abide by their rules. Not only do I think the rules should not be amended for her, but I think doing so would set something of a pernicious precedent.

If a Rastafarian wanted to compete in high-level OL, (s)he would have to get tested by USADA, an organisation that tests for, among other things, cannabinoids. Would USAW be expected to make special allowances for doping violations based on this lifter’s religion? (Ignoring the fact that testing for pot is kind of retarded).

What if an Orthodox Jew can’t lift on the Shabbat? Should USAW start scheduling meets for Sunday? Actually, that might not sit well with Christians. Hmmm…

My main concern is that USAW doesn’t receive accusations of having an anti-Muslim bias, because I think that is ludicrous.[/quote]

So foregoing drug testing or changing the date of an event is the equivalent of allowing someone to cover their elbows and knees ? If you think so, that’s your prerogative, but doesn’t seem like they are on the same page to me. The only precedent it would set is that elbows and knees could be covered. And Why aren’t the competitions on Sunday?

You don’t think that there is a possibility that some judges in the IWF/USAW might have anti-muslim bias? I don’t think that is the case, but I wouldn’t dismiss it either.

The fact is that Muslims, including Muslim women that wear the hijab, are a growing population in America and it behooves us as Americans to work towards being inclusive of them in more than just things that are Constitutional rights.

38

In Oly lifting you can’t have too much covering the knees or elbows. On the clean, the knees cannot touch the elbows, and the elbows cannot bend in the jerk (i.e. press-out). Those are the rules, so I hope the IWF commission doesn’t bend them for her. Religion has nothing to do with it, cheating does.

39

[quote]zahmad wrote:
You don’t think that there is a possibility that some judges in the IWF/USAW might have anti-muslim bias? I don’t think that is the case, but I wouldn’t dismiss it either.

The fact is that Muslims, including Muslim women that wear the hijab, are a growing population in America and it behooves us as Americans to work towards being inclusive of them in more than just things that are Constitutional rights.[/quote]

While you raise a fair point - it is this woman’s choice to compete, not right, as many others have said. When you belong to a faith which decrees a certain dress code and conduct it is your responsibility to uphold that code regardless of the consequences. Or, you can choose to forego that code, however briefly, in order to take part in an activity which you may otherwise be exempt from. It’s a choice, but the only one making her compete against her religion is herself.

The Muslim dress code keeps coming up in controversy all over the world and the pro-argument that banning it (in schools and the like) is an oppression really confuses the debate when even the Muslim world is divided over its neccesity. I mean honestly, what is your opinion; if she were intent on going ahead with the competition under it’s current ruleset would she actually be endangering her faith? Or would it be her credibility in the Muslim community that would come under fire?

Bottom line is, as Andy above said - the rules are actually in place for a good reason and excluding religious competitors isn’t one of them. The onus is on her to choose between the two.

40

[quote]optheta wrote:
Just were the required uniform and enter the competition and BAM go back to be fully clothed, how is this even a big deal. They act like the female form is something that is something to be ashamed of. [/quote]

Because that is what they believe.