[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
And the very educated, upper class Muslims do a poor job of speaking on these subjects. They only seem to speak out against US foreign policy but never the cesspool of Islamic fundamentalism that ruins the images of their cultures. It makes Westerners think that even those educated Muslims are somehow ok with this kind of garbage existing in their countries. And you can’t say, “Believe me, they are not ok…” that’s not enough. They need to speak out against it and they need to clean up the garbage. Actions, not words.[/quote]
I wasn’t going to dive into the religious debate going on in here, but wow. This is word-for-word my primary criticism of Islam.[/quote]
The problem is that the educated ex-pats are mostly abroad and left their respective countries BECAUSE of the bullshit going on there; they want nothing to do with their home country’s politics.
Many Iranians, for instance, are secular and thus looked down upon by Arabs who are devout Muslims. Iranians ex pats look down upon those Arabs and Islam for bringing a theocratic system and a bloody revolution, ruining the lives of millions. Secular, educated ex pats tend to want to disassociate themselves with their home countries, minus the pride in culture (art, music, history) and the fact that most ex pats have relatives abroad.
Are coup d’etats passe or something? The next revolution that brews in a Muslim country should be funded by all Westerners abroad, via PayPal or Google Checkout or something.
Can we run a Groupon to fund rebel forces in Libya? Has it been done?
Instead of attacking those countries’ ideologies–no matter how right we are in attacking them–we should step off that angle (because it makes the other side defensive and communication breaks down) we should plant seeds into the minds of the most influential minorities in those countries, minorities who might have popular followings for opposing policies of incumbent leaders.
We need to fund them somehow and let them believe that they led the march and it was all their idea. The moment we act like we know what’s
best for them, all the fractured parties join forces and become anti-Western and anti-American. It’s counterintuitive but we should ignore some of the jingoist bullshit we hear and engage Muslims in dialogue using a different strategy, one that preaches to them a secular system whose benefit is the preservation of their fate, not its perversion for political gain (by incumbent leaders, for instance).
The second you say, “your way sucks and is ugly!” you have unlikely forces join (by virtue of sharing a common denominator, in this case Islam) to become allies.
This is similar to coaching. You can’t keep telling someone how much they suck or how ugly they are; they’ll either resent you and stop listening to you, or you’ll simply lose them and they’ll regress and continue with the behavior you want them to change.
Tell the educated, sensible folks: “Hey, Islam is beautiful and you should continue spreading the word in YOUR country to those who want to listen, but you should take it out of politics because fundamentalists are ruining the image of Islam by distorting messages. Westerners aren’t taking you seriously because of it.” And then, let the minorities flush out the garbage on their own. Let it be THEIR task, not the “'Merahkins! Fuck yeah!”
Present someone with something you think they’d really want (preserving Islam, gaining the respect of non-Muslims) and then present to them the threats/barriers to this goal. If you say, “your faith sucks and you’re all terrorists!” they’ll just sympathize with fundamentalists. (the influential minorities, in this case)[/quote]
x2.
Ponce, you’re laying some serious wisdom on this site these days. I iz impressed.
