[quote]zahmad wrote:
Some verses may be used to justify the killing of Jews/Christians, but the justification is incorrect. I will type this again, in the Quran it says “Be not the aggressor, for God hates the aggressor”[/quote]
I understand, so if you play victim you can kill anyone you want, as long as it’s in perceived self defense.
Bin Laden’s attack on 9-11 was revenge for Israel’s attack on Lebanon 2 decades earlier. The Lebanese were the victims, the US is Israel’s ally, so it was made justifible to fly airliners into the Twin Towers and Pentagon 2 decades after the fact for revenge. Is that not correct?
Or would you say Bin Laden and Al Qaeda were the aggressors and should be destoyed and banished to hell by Allah for disobeying him?
but gettin back to the muslim woman who wants to compete in weight lifting…
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
I understand, so if you play victim you can kill anyone you want, as long as it’s in perceived self defense.
Bin Laden’s attack on 9-11 was revenge for Israel’s attack on Lebanon 2 decades earlier. The Lebanese were the victims, the US is Israel’s ally, so it was made justifible to fly airliners into the Twin Towers and Pentagon 2 decades after the fact for revenge. Is that not correct?
Or would you say Bin Laden and Al Qaeda were the aggressors and should be destoyed and banished to hell by Allah for disobeying him?
but gettin back to the muslim woman who wants to compete in weight lifting…[/quote]
What do you say Zahmad?
There are two very simple questions in there… Are you going to answer either of them?
9/11 occured almost 10 years ago and people still have these questions. Let’s make it clear. The day after 9/11, multiple Muslim organizations made the statement - “American Muslims utterly condemn what are vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts.”
The people responsible for flying that plane into the twin towers are/were the aggressors. The people in the twin towers were not aggressors.
The fact that nearly 10 years AFTER the attacks have occurred, Muslims still have to make this point is kind of ridiculous.
[quote]zahmad wrote:
9/11 occured almost 10 years ago and people still have these questions. Let’s make it clear. The day after 9/11, multiple Muslim organizations made the statement - “American Muslims utterly condemn what are vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts.”
The people responsible for flying that plane into the twin towers are/were the aggressors. The people in the twin towers were not aggressors.
The fact that nearly 10 years AFTER the attacks have occurred, Muslims still have to make this point is kind of ridiculous.[/quote]
Jesus. While I’m sure some people did celebrate the attacks, my question is this:
How do you KNOW the footage captured is of people SPECIFICALLY celebrating the 9/11 attacks? How do you know it’s not random footage of people cheering for something else? Are they speaking English? Or are you relying on the new anchor’s words of “you see people cheering an Osama Bin Laden victory…etc.”
How the fuck are you guys forfeiting your common sense in this case? Why aren’t you questioning the authenticity of the footage?
Muslims are not a monolithic group. They have different political standings and feelings towards different countries. American Muslims joined the military after 9/11 to help protect the country. The emotional response that people have is going to vary. The folks in those videos don’t speak for all Muslims or all Arabs.
I have many issues with Islam and the Muslim theocracies that exist. My primary issue is this:
Muslims have done a poor job of managing the PR of their religion. Why? I think I think it’s because of the general bedouin culture, where many fragmented groups exist who want to mind their own business and not stir up a commotion. This works against those cultures because it is contrary to many Western cultures: people speak up when they don’t like something and they are willing to fight for it. Yes, people have fought for things in the Middle East (countless revolutions, for instance) but other Muslims to not, for instance, condemn Taliban practices and offer Afghanis sanctuary (as a form or protest against Taliban rule)…that doesn’t sit right with many Westerners. It tarnishes the image of Muslims for not speaking out against such fundamentalism.
And the very educated, upper class Muslims do a poor job of speaking on these subjects. They only seem to speak out against US foreign policy but never the cesspool of Islamic fundamentalism that ruins the images of their cultures. It makes Westerners think that even those educated Muslims are somehow ok with this kind of garbage existing in their countries. And you can’t say, “Believe me, they are not ok…” that’s not enough. They need to speak out against it and they need to clean up the garbage. Actions, not words.
Ponce - I agree with a lot of what you say. Too many Muslims are complacent and do not speak up against the injustices done by Muslims and the injustices done to Muslims. There are Muslim Organizations in America that speak out against it, but they are usually given a small fraction of the time that radicals are given in the media.
On the other hand, when Muslims want to stand up for their rights in America, they get slammed with endless anti-Islam bashing. A Muslim American is no less an American than any other American.
Back to the reason I created this post - USOC is going to make a case for the Muslim girl to the IWF.
“Officials will provide reasonable accommodation for the religious practices of competitors on condition that the accommodation requested does not provide a competitive advantage.”
[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
And the very educated, upper class Muslims do a poor job of speaking on these subjects. They only seem to speak out against US foreign policy but never the cesspool of Islamic fundamentalism that ruins the images of their cultures. It makes Westerners think that even those educated Muslims are somehow ok with this kind of garbage existing in their countries. And you can’t say, “Believe me, they are not ok…” that’s not enough. They need to speak out against it and they need to clean up the garbage. Actions, not words.[/quote]
I wasn’t going to dive into the religious debate going on in here, but wow. This is word-for-word my primary criticism of Islam.
Jesus. While I’m sure some people did celebrate the attacks, my question is this:
How do you KNOW the footage captured is of people SPECIFICALLY celebrating the 9/11 attacks? How do you know it’s not random footage of people cheering for something else? Are they speaking English? Or are you relying on the new anchor’s words of “you see people cheering an Osama Bin Laden victory…etc.”
How the fuck are you guys forfeiting your common sense in this case? Why aren’t you questioning the authenticity of the footage?
Come on. Stop being sheep. [/quote]
You’re right. I never saw the World Trade Centers before they were “supposedly” brought down, either. How do I know they existed? You’re probably right that the reports I linked from three different networks are all a bunch of lies. Damn, I feel stupid now.
[quote]zahmad wrote:
Some verses may be used to justify the killing of Jews/Christians, but the justification is incorrect. I will type this again, in the Quran it says “Be not the aggressor, for God hates the aggressor”[/quote]
I understand, so if you play victim you can kill anyone you want, as long as it’s in perceived self defense.
Bin Laden’s attack on 9-11 was revenge for Israel’s attack on Lebanon 2 decades earlier. The Lebanese were the victims, the US is Israel’s ally, so it was made justifible to fly airliners into the Twin Towers and Pentagon 2 decades after the fact for revenge. Is that not correct?
Or would you say Bin Laden and Al Qaeda were the aggressors and should be destoyed and banished to hell by Allah for disobeying him?
.[/quote]
