I’m not pleased with the results.
The backstage bathroom at the O reflects that.
lol
[quote]Alpha F wrote:
Lonnie123 wrote:
Its also why guys like Ruhl, who are just insanely large… Like really insanely HUGE, dont just walk all over everyone. He doesnt “look” better, even though he has built his body up more than the other body builders.
YES, that one is a good example you picked to teach me since it is clear for me to see that!
It’s really unfortunate that so much gets placed on how you are put together instead of the more objective things like mass, leanness, and “hardness” … Things usually achieved by effort instead of genetics. It was nice to see Branch get rewarded for his physique(just absolutely rock solid) I KNOW, that was exactly what blew my mind - but I am biased since I LOVE solidity!, even if it isnt the most pleasing to the eye. I agree but then I have always wondered under what standards BB was judged and what constitutes fair or unfair leading to an immediate qualification or disqualification for someone to even go into the sport. I don’t have a solution for that but you guys tell me.
Look at Jay’s lats V. Kai and you can see another example of how muscle insertions can dramatically affect your look. Jays lats come in high, leaving a waist, whereas Kai’s lats almost seem to descend all the way down his back, creating that “wing” look.
Yes, I did see that!
I agree. It makes me question, though, when we say Kai’s back is bigger/better are we not expressing a subjective preference rather than making an objective observation?
Thank you very much - don’t need to wait for the British. You have been a good teacher. I will now go to that live competition with a sharper eye.
BB is much more interesting when looked at under the light.
Thank you for putting the light on for me.
Alpha F
[/quote]
just reading through and wanted to add, chime in about why some people have a hard time putting Branch ahead of say guys like Dexter.
Clarity and muscle separation. Branch is a thick grainy (vascular no water) but in the past people have mentioned that his skin doesn’t appear paper thin, e.g. some of the muscles in his back tend to blend/not be as clearly delineated as others. this can interrupt a competitors flow/lines. his back simply isn’t as sweeping as others, his V isn’t bat winged like Kai’s or classic like Victor’s, his back resembles a human steer/bull. Branch’s back continues to get detail (the size is there).
It is an objective thing but think of it like a series of paintings comparing Monet’s to monet’s and Rembrandt to Rembrandt, at the end of the day it’s a matter of which one stood out regardless of genre as the most pleasing, and pleasing can become a matter of opinion too.
some people love classic traditional looks Vic, dex, toney, melvin : wide up top, sweeping V w/ a narrow waist, some people like the holy shit i’ve never seen that before thing, others like a combo of the two.
cheers-
the ideal seemingly now would be the overwhelming size, hanging lats, zippered quads (cross feathered striation), crazy size and freaky condition. THERE IS ONE ONE GUY WHO HAS THAT –
KAI GREENE – AND NOBODY COULD HAVE BEAT HAD HE BEEN ON – alas he wasn’t where he needed to be for most of the competition, barring the end of call outs yesterday, thus he didn’t get it done.
branch looked sick, Jay was the best jay in years, Dex arguably could have won the guy is the same but amazing, heath was apparently sick night one but improved for night two however YOU CANNOT FIX BEING NARROW, he isn’t the next “thing” as others predict. victor considering what he’s been through can be happy w/ 6th, if he fixes his twigs he’ll have another run at the O. Wolf needs to figure out how to put his puzzle together, he’s kind of fucked.
and as my nut hugging self has said, if Kai can balance his size and condition he’s got something others simply do not have.
all that said these guys make me feel like after three years in the gym i hardly work out.
[quote]cyruseven75 wrote:
It is an objective thing but think of it like a series of paintings comparing Monet’s to monet’s and Rembrandt to Rembrandt, at the end of the day it’s a matter of which one stood out regardless of genre as the most pleasing, and pleasing can become a matter of opinion too.[/quote]
As an artist, I fully appreciate what you’ve stated here, Cy.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
cyruseven75 wrote:
It is an objective thing but think of it like a series of paintings comparing Monet’s to monet’s and Rembrandt to Rembrandt, at the end of the day it’s a matter of which one stood out regardless of genre as the most pleasing, and pleasing can become a matter of opinion too.
As an artist, I fully appreciate what you’ve stated here, Cy.
[/quote]
Me too.
I like the ‘bullish’ look, though.
It screams of hardcore muscle solidity to my artistic vision.
Fluidity x Solidity
I can appreciate both in their own right.
But when I watched the video it was Warren’s physique that jumped right out at me the most.
Congrats to Jay! He made history by winning the title back.
[quote]Alpha F wrote:
Lonnie123 wrote:
He just doesnt have the “right” insertions in his muscles. When you looks at guys like Dex and Heath, they are just “prettier.” The muscles flow better, it looks more pleasing. Unforunately you cant do a damn thing about it. Looks at Cutlers midsection, his abs are staggered… Nothing he can do about it, but the guys with abs that line up(Dex for example) just look better
Ah, yes. I understand.
I failed to see it because his vascularity was so good and I focused on that instead and I do agree about flow. Will have to train my eye about insertions, though.
I will be going to the British bodybuilding show soon and hopefully someone will teach me some awareness on that.
Thank you very much.
[/quote]
I don’t know about ‘teaching’ much of it is taste. For example… remember that conversation you and I had about the bicep peak? That to a large degree is determined by the muscle attachments.
While i personally like to see a high bicep, while you prefer a longer bicep (Milo Sarcev) - totally subjective.
However of course if you mean to learn what the judges are looking for… that is also tricky IMO as it varies - which is one reason why so many were enthralled by this years O as there were a number of vastly different (relatively speaking) BB’s who had a shot.
I actually do not think Branch’s genetics in that matter (attachements) are bad. He has full muscle bellies and is well put together, however he does not have the classic ‘bodybuilder’ look as someone like Victor does… with the slim waist etc.
(incidentally look at Phil Heaths chest. It looks great relaxed (and is thick) but it is not as it should be (in bodybuilding perfection) and as such you can see where the muscle stops and the tendon which attaches to the corocoid process begins.
This massively affects the look and shape of it and i think that will restrict his progression for the rest of his career).
We know that the hardcore look does become fashionable with the judges every now and then as we have had an athlete like Dorian win the O. Repeatedly too.
However this was again under slightly different circumstances than today as he was the first (AFAIK) to bring the type of back that we now consider mandatory for that show.
I think it is best to use Ruhl as an example of bad genetics. He is massive. As big as you’d ever want to be - bigger even. In that regard he has some very good genetics indeed.
However due to his structure he is hunched forward (Jay too needs to sort out his posture as he too is getting the hunched forward posture that affects his posing negatively) and is not put together with the wide shoulders, sweeping thighs and slim waist as is looked for in bodybuilding AS A RULE.
He is a tank though and i think his pure muscularity puts him up there again and again.
Something of note - i watched one of Jay’s videos back in about 2003 or 4 and in it he said that he was one of those people who just looks at a weight and adds muscle.
I think that is one genetic factor that all the pros will share - they pile on muscle at a rate beyond what the vest majority can.
But then you need to also account for tolerance to drugs and response to drugs, recovery ability, tendon strength, fat management and attachments and they will all be gifted to a certain extent.
At that level it isn’t as much a matter of muscularity or definition… not like at the lower levels of the sport.
I mean - you can be sure that they will be highly conditioned and are as developed as you can be, the rest is down to their attachments as someone pointed out… which i have not decided makes it either a very fair sport or not fair…!
I love it anyway.
[quote]300andabove wrote:
anonym wrote:
Same fucking shit - SAMA posts go right through while this forum takes forever.
If there is one time during the year you would think real-time discussion would be key…
I guarentee 100% they have to pre approve our posts to make sure we dont mention any supplement companies or links.
All of a sudden its over back to normal FANCY THAT.
Though you expected different lol[/quote]
Dude, that happens everyday. I don’t know why people are shocked about this.
There was only one mod on last night, and She did quite well IMO. Much better than Friday night’s crew. This thread and the other O thread updated in real time for me all night Saturday night.
I infact applaud Mod Laurie for a job well done
Good God, I know Phil was off, but that’s my favorite physique
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
I’m extremely pleased about Branch’s second place. THE RETURN OF HARDCORE![/quote]
x2 He earned it.
The great part about bb’ing shows is all the judges have their own opinions, you never know where competitors will place. There seems to be controversy at every show, the judges can never satisfy everyone.
I will probably see this post at some point tomorrow 
IT IS YOU!
I was wondering who this J-J was…I thought to myself: "This guy just joined this month and already he is roaming the boards a la Le Cock Sportif style; throwing his weight in, who does he think he is?..
LOL!!!
I should have known it was you - you FOOLED ME! That is a rare feat, lol!
I was wondering where you had been - lol.
I could smell you, though…the scent was there…hahaha!
You really got me, damn you Brook!
: D
[quote]J-J wrote:
I don’t know about ‘teaching’ much of it is taste. For example… remember that conversation you and I had about the bicep peak? That to a large degree is determined by the muscle attachments.
While i personally like to see a high bicep, while you prefer a longer bicep (Milo Sarcev) - totally subjective.[/quote] Yes, I remember. It is teaching because you guys have a sharper eye biologically whereas I firstly see it artistically. So I would like to be educated in a more clinical view. I have a scientific eye also and it does interest me, though the artistic one is the default.[quote]
However of course if you mean to learn what the judges are looking for… that is also tricky IMO as it varies - which is one reason why so many were enthralled by this years O as there were a number of vastly different (relatively speaking) BB’s who had a shot.[/quote] No. Who knows what these people look for. Besides I distrust them on account of politics and business opportunism: The physique that may bring more money into the sport may be favored, etc.[quote]
I actually do not think Branch’s genetics in that matter (attachements) are bad. He has full muscle bellies and is well put together, however he does not have the classic ‘bodybuilder’ look as someone like Victor does… with the slim waist etc.[/quote] I do not like the classic look and at the risk of being e-stoned by some of the guys here I will open my mouth again and say these men look like Barbies to me …
…you know the ones that bend at the waist? That is my impression when I look at a BB like that; that you could just flex them at the hips and break it - it’s a delicate look. That is usually associated with ‘femininity’.
Sorry, I prefer the hardcore look - SPECIALLY FOR MALES.
Additionally, I adore the shape of Branch’s chest and the way the veins run through it - that jumped at me when I saw him on stage. His inner thighs also are phenomenal - the best in the business and I can’t quite explain why I think this way
( that is what I mean I need to be taught ).
The only other person I can think of whose inner thighs impressed me this way is CT, incidentally. There is something about the inner thigh muscle development of these two men that is very impressive and others seem to lack and make up in other ways.
IMO, Branch Warren has one of the best legs and chest shape muscle I have seen. Again, I lack the education to explain why I think that is - though I instinctively know what I see.
I was having this conversation with a good friend of mine and I tell you, he has one of the best physiques I have seen amongst T-Nation members. I was blown away by his pictures and he tells me he could never be a BB because he is ‘like a gorilla’ and, they way he is build will never make it so for him to achieve this “classic look” of BB.
I think this obsession with the ‘classic look’ puts a condition and therefore a restriction on what should be The Muscle Look
( mass, vascularity, density, and conditioning primarily ).
If it is the look of Power we are trying to emulate through this sport - the classic look does not necessarily represent this, for men specially. [quote]
(incidentally look at Phil Heaths chest. It looks great relaxed (and is thick) but it is not as it should be (in bodybuilding perfection) and as such you can see where the muscle stops and the tendon which attaches to the corocoid process begins.
This massively affects the look and shape of it and i think that will restrict his progression for the rest of his career).[/quote] Are you saying some men, due to their muscle insertions will never achieve more mass? Should they not, could they not, then be rewarded for shape, vascularity and solidity, like Branch? I am going to have to look at Heath’s pics to understand more of what you mean.[quote]
I think it is best to use Ruhl as an example of bad genetics. He is massive. As big as you’d ever want to be - bigger even. In that regard he has some very good genetics indeed.
However due to his structure he is hunched forward (Jay too needs to sort out his posture as he too is getting the hunched forward posture that affects his posing negatively) and is not put together with the wide shoulders, sweeping thighs and slim waist as is looked for in bodybuilding AS A RULE.[/quote] This combination of massive legs and shoulders and chest and slim waist is not the look of power, in my opinion. I would not chose a male whose waist line appeared more fragile than mine. Seriously, don’t give up on your obliques.
Though I don’t like men being modeled after Barbies I do agree on Ruhl.
The problem is his head. It is too small.
He looks like someone who has three shoulders.
[quote]Game Time wrote:
I will probably see this post at some point tomorrow :D[/quote]
lol
The poor Mods. They need more Spike to keep up with the Olympia Weekend.
I thank Mod Laurie. I think she was up the night.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
300andabove wrote:
anonym wrote:
Same fucking shit - SAMA posts go right through while this forum takes forever.
If there is one time during the year you would think real-time discussion would be key…
I guarentee 100% they have to pre approve our posts to make sure we dont mention any supplement companies or links.
All of a sudden its over back to normal FANCY THAT.
Though you expected different lol
Dude, that happens everyday. I don’t know why people are shocked about this.
There was only one mod on last night, and She did quite well IMO. Much better than Friday night’s crew. This thread and the other O thread updated in real time for me all night Saturday night.
I infact applaud Mod Laurie for a job well done[/quote]
???
Started off over an HOURS wait to see a post lol
Then reduced to 3/4 of an hr by end of posing
[quote]300andabove wrote:
Alpha F wrote:
I in fact applaud Mod Laurie for a job well done
???
Started off over an HOURS wait to see a post lol
Then reduced to 3/4 of an hr by end of posing
[/quote]
Maybe she was watching it, too.
I know I would. Munching on a free FINiBAR and making you all wait.
Be grateful I wasn’t your moderator, then.
Go Laurie!
[quote]300andabove wrote:
countingbeans wrote:
300andabove wrote:
anonym wrote:
Same fucking shit - SAMA posts go right through while this forum takes forever.
If there is one time during the year you would think real-time discussion would be key…
I guarentee 100% they have to pre approve our posts to make sure we dont mention any supplement companies or links.
All of a sudden its over back to normal FANCY THAT.
Though you expected different lol
Dude, that happens everyday. I don’t know why people are shocked about this.
There was only one mod on last night, and She did quite well IMO. Much better than Friday night’s crew. This thread and the other O thread updated in real time for me all night Saturday night.
I infact applaud Mod Laurie for a job well done
???
Started off over an HOURS wait to see a post lol
Then reduced to 3/4 of an hr by end of posing
[/quote]
I’m not even bullshitting. It updated in real time for me between like 10pm-1am EST. (I have no idea what time that is across the pond.)
Hmmm… I don’t know man. Maybe we are talking about different times. I’m stumped.
[quote]Game Time wrote:
Congrats to Jay! He made history by winning the title back.[/quote]
Jay does look very good with that medal on his neck.
His hair do makes him look like a superhero Bart Simpson.
Now that would make a great doll for children.
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
OMG THE SITE IS RUNNING SLOW AS FUCK RIGHT NOW DURING THE MOST IMPORTANT TIME OF THE YEAR![/quote]
THIS post was the last updated till the Figure prizes were being given out.
Was there for aaggesss then loads of posts showed up all of a sudden
-_-
[quote]Alpha F wrote:
Game Time wrote:
Congrats to Jay! He made history by winning the title back.
Jay does look very good with that medal on his neck.
His hair do makes him look like a superhero Bart Simpson.
Now that would make a great doll for children.
[/quote]
lol! If he’s going to rock that style he needs to at least cut it a little shorter, those 5 inch spikes look ridiculous lol.
Who would have thought 2 white boys would take the top two spots! Muahahaha!
The arian race claimed victory