[quote]rbpowerhouse wrote:
That wasn’t a stab at you in any way.
When i see a 2009 join date I assume that the person began traning recently.
When people get into this hobby (usually a few weeks/months before they create an account here), they begin reading the published literature all over the internet - with the “athletics/performance trainers” demonizing machines and preaching the “free weights or bust” philosophy to young lifters interested in getting bigger…which unfortunately prevents a lot of hopefuls from consistently making progress up to and beyond an intermediate stage.
Bodybuilding is about progression - whether its on a nautilus machine or with a pair of DBs. GO from benching 100 pounds on a nautilus to benching 500 pounds on the same nautilus (while gaining bodyweight) and you will find your chest and shoulders are a lot thicker than before. The trouble is you’re not going from 100 pounds on a nautilus to 600 anytime soon if you JUST train that movement.
You typically find that strength gains on any movement stop once you hit a “fixed groove” in that movement which means your body has found its “perfect” way to execute said movement using your existing musculature to the fullest extent.
The guy benching 600-700 raw with a powerlifting form has ALSO hit his groove on the free weight BB press and the only changes he can make thereafter are changing foot placement, deepening arch, whatever. And they will rely on board presses (shortening ROM to accustom to heavier loads), accessory work and hypertrophy to draw further strength gains (if at all possible).
The trouble with machines is that they CAN plant you in a “fixed groove” a hell of a lot quicker than a free-weight movement does if you keep training the same movement. Thats one of the main reasons why free weights are generally more amenable to consistent strength gains and why movements involving a LOT of muscles (like the free weight squat) give you lots of room to “tweak your form” and milk strength gains from session to session.
The argument about “free weight movements” recruiting stabilizers is misunderstood. Just because a muscle is recruited as a stabilizer does not mean it receives a training effect from the movement…your calves stabilize you in a standing BB curl but you’re not getting thick-ass calves because of that. But the more muscles that are involved, the more room for “grinding out a rep” and increasing load on the bar - and thats why free weights are great. Grinding out a rep is trickier on a machine…but you have the option of restricting the focus on a specific muscle group so any progress will directly translate to a training effect for that group.
Thats also why forcing your body to use a “super-strict form” in any movement will quickly halt strength gains until you “soften your form” a bit and start focusing on a balance between load and form to keep the gains coming.
Anwyay, the point of this stupidly long post/hijack was just to remind you that progression is progression, whether free weights or machines. And as far as BBing is concerned, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the smith machine or hammer strength equipment (or any of the equipment listed on this thread thus far) beyond personal issues -the HS wide chest hurts my shoulders and my arms at my shoulder width don;t fit into most nautilus lateral raise machines so they’re useless for me for e.g. - as long as your focus is on increasing the weight.
\end{hijack} - back to e-oblivion
juverulez wrote:
alright, one month of difference and your 2006=2007 and my 2009=2008… what’s the big deal anyway? how is it related to the topic?
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gotta say I like posts like this one, respect.
I’ve been working out a bit longer than this, nearly 3 years now but fair enough, how could you know. . I don’t use the smith machine for similar reasons and very rarely see anyone of serious size on it. Never really heard about anyone who overcame his plateu using SM, but I got your point, different things work for different people
