Im not sure why its such a big deal about the label “bodybuilder” Im just a guy who lifts weights seriously. personally, i hate labels. It reminds me of a scene in “the last dragon” where bruce leeroy, was telling that sexy black girl he wasn’t a master. and she said “you sure look like a master to me”
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
If u didnt care about the label theres no chance youd make a half dozeb posts about it. [/quote]
? I made posts because I care about the topic that started this thread. Why? Because I am passionate about what I do in the gym. Any more random judgments you care to make?
? First, I have dieted many times even if I have never jumped on stage…and most of the discussion on this forum IS NOT about the final few days of competition prep which would be the only difference in the info given. I don’t even discuss the laft few days of compeition prep as there is no talk here about it…so what are you even going on about?
? I’ve posted on Professional Muscle for several years and no one is laughing me off the forums…and they have guys way more advanced.
Get over yourself.[/quote]
Lol. So u do care about the label. Because youre passionate about what u do in the gym. And you want it to be called bodybuolding for whatever reason. We all can put 2 and 2 together.
You dont talk about contest prep BECAUSE YOU CANT. THATS MY POINT. you literally have nothing to say about it. There are people who compete here. And its a hard fact that if they have a question about contest prep they are PMing Stu and not you.
IM = intense muscle but ok thats fine. How many guys are asking you about contest prep there? Im sure a lot ask u about getting big. Any smart giy would. But thats all you have to offer at this point.
And dont bullshit us with “ive dieted before”. You havent seen your abs in ten years. If you want to call that a diet then you may as well admit that you have no clue what it takes to be a bodybuilder.
Done here. You made a fool of yourself again. [/quote]
Yeah, I doubt the one looking like a fool here is anyone but the guys turning every thread into this.
Once again, call me what you please but stop acting like your opinion is all encompassing or means anything more than what it is…the faceless opinion of some guy on the internet.
[quote]Tenp250 wrote:
50 years old at 6’4", 250, and sub 10%. Never been stronger and never been leaner, even when i was 220. I’m all about progress as long as possible. Tell me this isn’t healthy when most of my peers are sub 180, soft, and sit on their ass all day. [/quote]
That’s UNpossible. Someone has stated that 250lbs is unhealthy!
[quote]Tenp250 wrote:
50 years old at 6’4", 250, and sub 10%. Never been stronger and never been leaner, even when i was 220. I’m all about progress as long as possible. Tell me this isn’t healthy when most of my peers are sub 180, soft, and sit on their ass all day. [/quote]
“oh, but it puts a strain on your heart” bhahahaahah. thats what some here will try and tell you. i think we are in agreement, thats a crock of shit. thats why cardio exercise exists to strengthen your heart.
[quote]gregron wrote:
wait but for reals guys… is that picture photoshopped or legit?[/quote]
I think it’s legit. Check out this video:
[quote]roguevampire wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
My point was as middle age nears, it’s not healthy to be 250 plus no matter what the composition. It’s a strain on your heart - period. End of story.[/quote]
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
The guy reiterated my point that being 250lb plus is not healthy…[/quote]
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
NO ONE said “big muscles = poor health”. [/quote]
these statements kind of contradict each other…[/quote]
You’re cherry picking and quoting out of context - fallacious argument forms. Big surprise on Tnation.
Dude, it’s not the size of your muscles - my point was and always has been it’s your gross weight as you age. It’s a strain on your heart. Period. So if you’re carrying “junk” (as implied in the article), you’d be well fucking advised to lose it as you reach middle age. Do you have an actual intelligent retort to that point?
The best example I know of an elderly guy that was truly healthy and strong was that DeVaney guy. He was somewhere between 200-220 if I recall correctly and he was approaching 70 or more and in great health. When you can find me ANY fucking man on the planet age 70 or better carrying 250lbs (at any body composition) and HEALTHY, post your proof.
And I don’t want to hear about Ferrigno or Louie Simmons. Wake me up when they cross 70 (if they make it, I hope they do) and still carry that mass. And whoever mentioned Stalone is fucking stupid…if he’s breaking 220 I’ll go vegetarian for the rest of the fucking week.
[/quote]
ask yourself this, how often do you see really big muscular guys??? Im not talking over 70 or over 20, im talking any age whatsoever. you rarely see any. so that goes to reason, you won’t see any over 70. its that simple. Even if i were to accept being heavy regardless of bodyweight, i believe there are things you can do to counter act that. how about doing cardio exercise to strengthen your heart to accomidate your weight. [/quote]
Dude, you’re delusional and seeking answers to support your neurosis. I strongly suggest you seek professional help and that’s the first time I’ve ever uttered that on these forums and meant it seriously.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]DJHT wrote:
[quote]lemonman456 wrote:
My mom was just watching “The Real Housewives of New York” and I was just dumbfounded at how stupid and whiny people could be even though they were successful and at around 40 years of age. Sometimes this site reminds me a lot of that show.[/quote]
You ever watch the show the Jersey Shore about young dumbass kids who drink all the time, fuck everything that moves, take any type of med to get them “Jacked”? Well these kind of comments remind me of that show. [/quote]
You can almost draw a dividing line in this thread where the intelligent debate ended…and you can’t even blame the vampire for that.
[/quote]
Because the only intelligent opinions are expressed by you or agree with you. Yeah. Right.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
I think the problem here is that every day overweight dudes who lift weights are being labeled as bodybuilders. (Or maybe that’s not the case in which case Im very confused)
That doesnt really make sense to me. All of the bodybuilders I know, the guys who meticulously keep track of their food, take lifting as serious as any other part of their life, and who have aspirations to compete, dont look like shit at all. Age be damned.
Stop calling gym rats “bodybuilders” and this problem goes away. [/quote]
I asked X who is a “bodybuilder” is but I doubt I’ll get anything other than a vitriolic response in defense of himself.
So please, tell me what you constitutes a “bodybuilder”…[/quote]
The 3 criteria I listed above works. “Has competed” can be added to the aspirations of competing part.
Competing is everything IMO. I know quite a few really big guys around my age doing NPC shows. One of the guys whos lifts at my gym is bigger than all of them at 5 7 245 @ “12 weeks out leanness”. He doesnt even consider himself a bodybuilder yet because he hasnt gone through with a show yet. He puts in all the work in the gym, knows what he’ll be eating next tuesday but for one reason after another (partying, lack of fortitude, life, injury, burnout) he hasnt stepped on stage yet. He’s just another huge dude walking around.
IMO that extra step of getting on stage at any level is a tremendous step above guys who just lift and eat properly. [/quote]
So can someone that has “wanted” to compete for at least 10 years now without actually doing it be a “bodybuilder”? Doesn’t the “planning” have an expiration date? Or can you perpetually “plan” to be a bodybuilder. [/quote]
Wow, dude.
Ten years ago I weighed about 210lbs. You know, I think I would know what my goal was from the start better than anyone.
Why would someone compete before they reached the body they are after?
Competition is simply the end game after you build the impressive physique. I had no idea I was on a schedule set by someone else.
I spent ten years making gains that are pretty damn visible to anyone looking. You would ONLY have a point if I spent ten years making very little to no progress. During that ten years, I went after several other goals and reached all of them.
Sorry you seem to be having such a bad day.[/quote]
So you’re competing soon? Or do you just refuse to answer and do your best sammy davis tap dance around a direct question? Why do you feel attacked? Are you going to compete or what?
[quote]kakno wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
I’m not upset at all. I’m annoyed when my points are misrepresented. By the way, I hate to fucking break it to you, but a man in his 60’s is not “old”. If all you care about is making it to your 60’s, then that’s your problem. I want to make it beyond 80 and healthy. Excess weight is excess weight as you age - it’s a strain on your heart. Your heart DOES NOT distinguish between fat and muscle - it’s an increased load, ASK ANY CARDIOLOGIST!. For crying out loud, you claim to be a “doctor” - at least have an informed opinion and an understanding of my point. [/quote]
I’ve seen heart patients who are too frail to play golf because of the walking involved. At the other end of the spectrum I’ve seen patients who won’t exercise, even though it could help them immensely.
Carrying around extra lean muscle takes a toll on the heart, but so does playing golf. It’s cardio. Depending on your overall health, it could be good for you and it could be bad for you. It’s not black and white.
And how come you’re a beacon of health at 240 pounds but if someone is ten pounds heavier they’re about to have a heart attack?
[/quote]
Strawman. I’ve drawn no such conclusion. And, my blood work (cholesterol dropped 60 points in less than 90 days) says I’m currently healthier than “I” was at the heavier weight. I didn’t make any such comparisons. Stick to logical rebuttals, not fallacious ones.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]kakno wrote:
?
He’s like a guy with a 2000 pound gym total. He doesn’t give out advice on cutting for a competition but he knows how to get big. And that’s a pretty big part of it.
How is the fact that he’s never competed relevant to this discussion?
FWIW, H4M gave out great advice before his first meet. In which he totaled elite. Competing isn’t everything.[/quote]
Youre glossing over the point. Where does the strong desire to have the LABEL attached come from? Thats all this debate breaks down to. Who gets to have the LABEL of ‘bodybuilder’? If competition isnt required than about half of what goes into bodybuilding is removed from the criteria. You dont pose in a gym. You dont manipulate water in a gym. You dont slave away on a stepmill for 20+ hours a week to get down to 5% bodyfat.
You dont eat white fish and broccoli and brown rice 4 times a day for 3 weeks straight just for the fuck of it. Competition is a completely different animal than just getting big and pretty.
The people who say that bodybuilding is done in the gym and the kitchen and not on stage HAVE CLEARLY NEVER COMPETED. OR EVEN BEEN TO A SHOW BEFORE.
There is so much more to competition than just training and eating. Those who say bodybuilding is done in the gym and the kitchen are shitting on the extreme prepartion that is necessary to step on stage. Training and eating is by far the easiest part of bodybuilding. Obviously Im talking from a 3rd person perspective but my opionion is based on coversations with people who compete.
Comparitively speaking, powerlifting requires much less preparation for a competition. Its not a great analogy and weakens the stance of the person who says bodybuilding is more than lifting and eating right.
[/quote]
Thank you for rebutting the “bodybuilding apologists” among us.
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
I’m not upset at all. I’m annoyed when my points are misrepresented. By the way, I hate to fucking break it to you, but a man in his 60’s is not “old”. If all you care about is making it to your 60’s, then that’s your problem. I want to make it beyond 80 and healthy. Excess weight is excess weight as you age - it’s a strain on your heart. Your heart DOES NOT distinguish between fat and muscle - it’s an increased load, ASK ANY CARDIOLOGIST!. For crying out loud, you claim to be a “doctor” - at least have an informed opinion and an understanding of my point. [/quote]
If your goal is to make it beyond 80, then why are you even bothering staying at 240 lbs for your height. You’re profile says 6’1, why not cut back to 210 and be in better shape since those extra 30 lbs are making your heart work harder. [/quote]
As I get older that may happen. We’ll see where it goes but at this point, unless I start wasting or cut a leg off, 210 is not in the immediate future. I’m happy where my blood work is and the way I look and I can’t see how I can drop below 230 or so “walking around weight”.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Ten years ago I weighed about 210lbs. You know, I think I would know what my goal was from the start better than anyone.
Why would someone compete before they reached the body they are after?
[/quote]
Not that you care, but this is the most valid excuse/reason for not competing I can think of when I said that the amount of time depends on the exuse. [/quote]
I care about real debate and discussion, not the bs that has been going on in this forum lately and in this thread with the personal attacks.
As far as the topic of what makes someone a bodybuilder…I would guess other people seeing you as one would be the best answer.
Further, I think most of us can tell the difference quickly between some guy with 19 or 20" arms who worked his ass of for them in the gym and some guy who was just “big” naturally and had arms that happened to measure that much.
I wanted to reach a certain size…so I did. Seeing people try to turn that into a negative is strange as hell.
I personally don’t care what some guy on the internet calls me and am wondering why this topic is now about whether you can or can’t call yourself a bodybuilder.[/quote]
No one called you anything. No one attacked you. No one “turn(ed) it into a negative”. I asked you a question. You were asked a question, and you didn’t reply. That’s your discretion, but don’t go building strawmen in place of simply acknowledging your discretion not to answer a direct question.
[quote]Tenp250 wrote:
50 years old at 6’4", 250, and sub 10%. Never been stronger and never been leaner, even when i was 220. I’m all about progress as long as possible. Tell me this isn’t healthy when most of my peers are sub 180, soft, and sit on their ass all day. [/quote]
And, by the way, I get more comments from the ladies and respect from guys in the 20s who want to look lime I do at 50. The confidence and self esteem that comes with this sort of positive feedback helps in everything I do outside the gym as well.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Im just saying that u can stretch thia any way u want to justify your opinion. Analogies are useless here. I just think bodybuilding is better off if the crteria for te label is as strict as possible. [/quote]
Yeah, and the holes in that include people who do compete before they ever build any size at all yet calling themselves “bodybuilders” JUST because they competed first.
[/quote]
And they still did more than you. You’re just bigger. Sounds insecure to me. And they guy that stepped on stage? Guts.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
No one said competing alone makes someone a bodybuilder. Youre just goig to get people jumping on ypur ass again if u start making things up again.
Competing is simply another one of the elements that goes into it along with diet and training and the other handfull of things i mentioned earlier.
[/quote]
? Isn’t that the point that BG is making, that I can’t call myself a bodbuilder because I haven’t competed?
How is that making stuff up?
What are you talking about?
Is anyone else noticing the “crazy” in here?[/quote]
The point is that you being a “bodybuilder” is open to intelligent debate.
[quote]buddaboy wrote:
Oxford English Dictionary:
Bodybuilder
Noun
- A person who strengthens and enlarges the muscles of their body though strenuous exercise.
[/quote]
Hooray! I’m a “bodybuilder” 
This site IS a “bodybuilding site” after all. I stand corrected
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
wait but for reals guys… is that picture photoshopped or legit?[/quote]
I think it’s legit. Check out this video:
[/quote]
This is INCREDIBLE!!!
Made the whole thread worth it.
If you guys REALLY WANT TO KNOW what happens to your body when you are a competitive bodybuilder and “YOU GET OLDER” you need to go to the 5:05 point of the video. very profound stuff.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
I think the problem here is that every day overweight dudes who lift weights are being labeled as bodybuilders. (Or maybe that’s not the case in which case Im very confused)
That doesnt really make sense to me. All of the bodybuilders I know, the guys who meticulously keep track of their food, take lifting as serious as any other part of their life, and who have aspirations to compete, dont look like shit at all. Age be damned.
Stop calling gym rats “bodybuilders” and this problem goes away. [/quote]
I asked X who is a “bodybuilder” is but I doubt I’ll get anything other than a vitriolic response in defense of himself.
So please, tell me what you constitutes a “bodybuilder”…[/quote]
The 3 criteria I listed above works. “Has competed” can be added to the aspirations of competing part.
Competing is everything IMO. I know quite a few really big guys around my age doing NPC shows. One of the guys whos lifts at my gym is bigger than all of them at 5 7 245 @ “12 weeks out leanness”. He doesnt even consider himself a bodybuilder yet because he hasnt gone through with a show yet. He puts in all the work in the gym, knows what he’ll be eating next tuesday but for one reason after another (partying, lack of fortitude, life, injury, burnout) he hasnt stepped on stage yet. He’s just another huge dude walking around.
IMO that extra step of getting on stage at any level is a tremendous step above guys who just lift and eat properly. [/quote]
So can someone that has “wanted” to compete for at least 10 years now without actually doing it be a “bodybuilder”? Doesn’t the “planning” have an expiration date? Or can you perpetually “plan” to be a bodybuilder. [/quote]
Wow, dude.
Ten years ago I weighed about 210lbs. You know, I think I would know what my goal was from the start better than anyone.
Why would someone compete before they reached the body they are after?
Competition is simply the end game after you build the impressive physique. I had no idea I was on a schedule set by someone else.
I spent ten years making gains that are pretty damn visible to anyone looking. You would ONLY have a point if I spent ten years making very little to no progress. During that ten years, I went after several other goals and reached all of them.
Sorry you seem to be having such a bad day.[/quote]
So you’re competing soon? Or do you just refuse to answer and do your best sammy davis tap dance around a direct question? Why do you feel attacked? Are you going to compete or what?[/quote]
Tap dance? I have stated more than once that I won’t claim I am doing anything unless my name is on someone’s roster. Why do you need to know what my own goals are?
What does that matter in this thread at all?
You have basically attacked everyone who disagrees with you.
Is that acting your age or what?
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]TheCanadian wrote:
[quote]angus_beef wrote:
[quote]TheCanadian wrote:
BG, I’ve been lurking here for a long time and I have found that I tend to agree with your opinions on many counts. However, I think it’s incorrect to state that X and many others who do not compete are not bodybuilders irrespective of their commitment and achievements.
I think that while stepping on stage and competing is certainly admirable, and absolutely required to be considered a competitive bodybuilder, what qualifies one as a bodybuilder is less to do with competition and more to do with training, discipline, and mindset. If someone practiced guitar relentlessly and became very skilled, but never performed in front of a crowd, would that make them any less of a guitar player?
Would that make them merely a guy who plays a lot of guitar and is very good at it? I believe not. Bodybuilding is not done on the stage. Bodybuilding is done in the gym and in the kitchen. While it is judged onstage, it is not done there. In my opinion, if it looks like a bodybuilder and acts like a bodybuilder then it must be a bodybuilder.
[/quote]
.
Haha… ok now lets but the emotions aside and think logically here. While this may apply to some aspects of life such as music and visual arts, it doesn’t apply to others. If you don’t step on stage to compete then you haven’t reached that legit status. No matter how developed you are. The reason there are discrepancies is because so many guys use the term so loosely.
This is a profession to the elite in the sport. Until you step on stage you are just a guy who lift weights. Would you consider a guy who graduated at the top of his class in law school, but have yet to pass the bar a lawyer?. Until you’ve played some form of professional basketball you’re just a guy who plays basketball, and unless you’ve actually been through med school and residency, then you’re just a dentist.
[/quote]
What emotions? I’m posting infrequently because I’m trying to stay objective.
I’ll concede that I failed to consider all the aspects of bodybuilding preparation, and therefore I failed to consider everything that is involved in looking like and acting like a bodybuilder, and therefore what it means to be a bodybuilder. However, I do believe that distinction should be made between professions such as a lawyer or doctor and athletic pursuits like basketball. I think the distinction lies in that the terms “lawyer” and “doctor” are titles, bestowed upon those who have passed certain (at least partially) standardized examinations, whereas the term “basketball player” is a description- similarly to the term bodybuilder. This leads me to my next point, which is really a clarification of my last post with the corrections that have been pointed out by bonez and yourself. I believe that had one gone through all the necessary routine, managing water, carrying dieting and cardio to their absolute extreme logical ends etc. one should still be considered a bodybuilder, even if they had not stepped on stage. The point that I was trying to make was that these descriptive terms apply regardless of competition. Whether you’re professional or not merely determines if you can or cannot call yourself a professional (bodybuilder/guitar player/basketball player etc). This doesn’t apply to doctors or lawyers because those words are titles, not descriptive terms; whereas with basketball players all that is required for the description to apply in that exact form is that one plays basketball regularly.
Keeping this in mind, I doubt there is anyone who actually goes through all the commitment and trouble to do as competing bodybuilders do without actually competing. [/quote]
What about the asshole in brazil right now who just bought a kit of botox from china and has people paying him $500 to come to his basement to inject it in their faces. He doesnt have a license because he is actually a bricklayer who didbt come close to going to med school. But hes acting like a doctor
Im just saying that u can stretch thia any way u want to justify your opinion. Analogies are useless here. I just think bodybuilding is better off if the crteria for te label is as strict as possible. [/quote]
In regards to the specified brazilian, it doesn’t matter if he’s “acting like a doctor” because “doctor” is a title- one that means licenced medical practitioner. What he acts like is irrelevant. What I think this is coming down to is the use of the word bodybuilder as a title versus the use of the word bodybuilder as a descriptor. Someone posted the dictionary definition, in which it is used as a particular word for describing someone who pursues a particular goal, rather than a title for a competitor. I personally believe that both uses are valid, but just as this is my opinion and I am entitled to it, you are certainly entitled to hold a different one. I’m going to have to respectfully agree to disagree with you on this one.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]roguevampire wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
My point was as middle age nears, it’s not healthy to be 250 plus no matter what the composition. It’s a strain on your heart - period. End of story.[/quote]
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
The guy reiterated my point that being 250lb plus is not healthy…[/quote]
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
NO ONE said “big muscles = poor health”. [/quote]
these statements kind of contradict each other…[/quote]
You’re cherry picking and quoting out of context - fallacious argument forms. Big surprise on Tnation.
Dude, it’s not the size of your muscles - my point was and always has been it’s your gross weight as you age. It’s a strain on your heart. Period. So if you’re carrying “junk” (as implied in the article), you’d be well fucking advised to lose it as you reach middle age. Do you have an actual intelligent retort to that point?
The best example I know of an elderly guy that was truly healthy and strong was that DeVaney guy. He was somewhere between 200-220 if I recall correctly and he was approaching 70 or more and in great health. When you can find me ANY fucking man on the planet age 70 or better carrying 250lbs (at any body composition) and HEALTHY, post your proof.
And I don’t want to hear about Ferrigno or Louie Simmons. Wake me up when they cross 70 (if they make it, I hope they do) and still carry that mass. And whoever mentioned Stalone is fucking stupid…if he’s breaking 220 I’ll go vegetarian for the rest of the fucking week.
[/quote]
ask yourself this, how often do you see really big muscular guys??? Im not talking over 70 or over 20, im talking any age whatsoever. you rarely see any. so that goes to reason, you won’t see any over 70. its that simple. Even if i were to accept being heavy regardless of bodyweight, i believe there are things you can do to counter act that. how about doing cardio exercise to strengthen your heart to accomidate your weight. [/quote]
Dude, you’re delusional and seeking answers to support your neurosis. I strongly suggest you seek professional help and that’s the first time I’ve ever uttered that on these forums and meant it seriously. [/quote]
He was obviously sexually abused as a child. I can tell because I got 3.0’s on my Social and Cognitive Psych courses. Oh, and I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express!